RELATING TO THE CARRIAGE OF GOODS BY SEA MONDAY, MARCH 10, 1930 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON THE MERCHANT MARINE AND FISHERIES, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Charles H. Sloan presiding. Mr. SLOAN. Judge Davis, you wanted to interrogate Mr. Myrick relative to the chamber of commerce, as I understand? Mr. DAVIS. Yes. Mr. SLOAN. And Mr. Myrick wants to get away. Mr. DAVIS. I just indicated that, before the hearings were closed, I wanted to ask a few questions. Mr. SLOAN. Are you ready to interrogate him now? Mr. DAVIS. Yes; it suits me all right. STATEMENT OF N. SUMNER MYRICK, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OF THE UNITED STATES Mr. DAVIS. Give your full name to the stenographer. Mr. MYRICK. N. Sumner Myrick, Chamber of Commerce of the United States. Mr. DAVIS. It was announced here, I think the first day of the hearings, that this bill had the indorsement of the United States Chamber of Commerce; was that correct? Mr. MYRICK. Well, I do not know that I am at liberty to say the chamber of commerce has indorsed this particular bill. The chamber of commerce has, on four different occasions, at annual meetings, passed resolutions indorsing and approving The Hague rules, and the executives would be in favor of this bill. I had something to do with the drafting of the bill. It was at my suggestion, I think, that the conference was held at the Shipping Board, in which Mr. Nicolson, Mr. Boal, the admiralty counsel of the Shipping Board; Mr. Haight, and Mr. Titus, of the Department of Commerce, and I sat in as an observer, so to speak, and this bill was prepared at that conference. So that the executives of the chamber have been more or less in touch with the bill ever since it was introduced. Mr. DAVIS. Now what is your connection with the United States Chamber of Commerce? Mr. MYRICK. I have charge of shipping matters and have had for about 12 years. Mr. DAVIS. You devote all of your time to that? Mr. MYRICK. Yes. Mr. DAVIS. You are on a salary from the United States Chamber of Commerce? Mr. MYRICK. Yes. Mr. DAVIS. Have you any other business interests or connections? Mr. MYRICK. No. Mr. DAVIS. How was this matter of The Hague rules brought up in the United States Chamber of Commerce? Mr. MYRICK. I shall answer that in my own way and have to do it somewhat in narrative form. The Internation Law Association first considered this subject of codification of rules relating to bills of lading and that conference was held at The Hague. It was attended by shippers, shipping men, underwriters, and so forth, and the rules were there produced and there received their name, The Hague rules, because the conference was held at The Hague. The rules were introduced at the international meeting of the chamber of commerce held in London, in 1921, and I was there representing the chamber with another gentleman. Mr. DAVIS. Right in that connection: Was anybody there besides you representing the United States Chamber of Commerce? Mr. MYRICK. Yes. There was a Mr. Blodgett, an admiralty lawyer of Boston, now dead, and Mr. Haight was there. Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Haight who appeared here? Mr. MYRICK. Yes. The three of us were there. The rules were referred for discussion to a body made up of shipping men, underwriters, shippers, and so forth, from the different nations represented. Mr. DAVIS. You say shippers? Mr. MYRICK. Oh, yes. Mr. DAVIS. What shippers were there? Mr. MYRICK. None from the United States. Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Haight said there were none. Mr. MYRICK. None from the United States. Mr. DAVIS. Well were there any there from anywhere? Mr. MYRICK. Oh, yes. I was in quite close contact with Mr. Balfour, one of the biggest shippers and exporters in England, and others were there. I do not now recall them all, but I recall Mr. Balfour, a very distinguished shipper, was there. Mr. DAVIS. He was interested in ship operating, too, was he not? Mr. MYRICK. No. So, after two days' discussion at this group meeting, the rules were unanimously adopted and recommended to the main meeting. There they were again discussed to some extent and unanimously adopted. Returning to this country, the United States Chamber of Commerce had meetings, had a committee appointed and had group meetings at which there were present shippers, ship owners, underwriters, and so forth. Mr. DAVIS. Now a committee was appointed to which this matter was referred, or by which those Hague rules were discussed, was it? Mr. MYRICK. At these meetings I spoke of, they were. Mr. DAVIS. At one of the group meetings? Mr. MYRICK. Oh, yes; several of them, because, you see, this matter has been dragging along for years. Mr. DAVIS. Yes, I know. Now who were the members of the committee that considered this matter? Mr. MYRICK. I can not tell you at this moment, because it has been before several committees. Mr. DAVIS. Well let us take the last time that the United States Chamber of Commerce took action on it. Mr. MYRICK. I can not tell you. We have had so many committees on different things, that I can not at the moment tell you. I can furnish you with the names later, but I can not at this moment tell you. Mr. DAVIS. Well do you remember any of them? Mr. DAVIS. In other words, Mr. Myrick, so far as I am concerned (and I suppose it is true of the other members of the committee), a recommendation means nothing on earth to me unless I know who is making the recommendation and what prompts it. Mr. MYRICK. Oh, I can furnish you with the names and have them put in the record, if you deisire it; but I can not tell you at this moment, because we have had so many committees during these years it is perfectly impossible. Mr. DAVIS. If somebody makes a recommendation in their own interest, they have a perfect right to make it, but we have a perfect right to take into consideration their interest. Mr. MYRICK. Of course you understand, sir, that the reports of the committees, actions of these minor bodies, does not count for anything in declaring the principles and policies of the chamber; that that is only done in two ways-either by resolution of the annual meeting, or else by referendum sent out to the organization membership. But in this case there were four occasions Mr. DAVIS. Now this matter of the approval or disapproval of The Hague rules has never been submitted by referendum to all of the members of the United States Chamber of Commerce, has it? Mr. MYRICK. I do not think it has; no. Mr. DAVIS. And if it had been, 99 per cent of them would not have known what it was all about, would they? Mr. MYRICK. They would have known; yes, of course. Mr. DAVIS. I say they would not have known? Mr. MYRICK. Why, yes; most assuredly. Mr. DAVIS. How many chambers of commerce do you suppose there are in the United States where any of them have read The Hague rules, or this bill? Mr. MYRICK. The Hague rules-I would not undertake to say. I think there are very few. Mr. DAVIS. Yes; I do, too. Mr. MYRICK. Very fiew have undertaken to read this bill. Mr. DAVIS. Now, Mr. Myrick, is not the fact this: These committees that have considered this subject in the United States Chamber of Commerce were composed of shipping men and marine underwriters, and they made a recommendation that was perfunctorily adopted by the chamber as a whole, because an overwhelming percentage of them did not know anything about it and just accepted the recommendation of the committee; now is not that a fact? Mr. MYRICK. No; I do not think it is a fact; because the matters are always discussed; bulletins are sent out about all of those matters that are discussed at the chamber; the Nation's Business, that circulates two or three hundred thousand copies among the members, always deals with those questions that are before the chamber, so that everybody becomes informed. Mr. DAVIS. I see you have a lot of papers there. Have you any bulletins on this subject that were sent out to the membership of the United States Chamber of Commerce? Mr. MYRICK. No; I have not. Mr. DAVIS. Well, will you say that any bulletin or circular, or any other document, was sent out to all the members of the United States Chamber of Commerce on this subject? Mr. MYRICK. I can say that bulletins were sent out; I can say that articles were published in the Nation's Business. Mr. DAVIS. Advocating The Hague rules? Mr. MYRICK. Advocating The Hague rules. Mr. DAVIS. Now if any bulletins on this subject have been sent out to members by the chamber of commerce itself, will you furnish those? Mr. MYRICK. I will, if they can be found, surely. Mr. DAVIS. But you do not think they can be found, do you? Mr. MYRICK. I do not know. I am not going to hazard any opinion about that at this time. Mr. DAVIS. You do not recollect any? Mr. MYRICK. I do not at this moment recall them. There were a good many hundred sent out in the last 10 years. Mr. DAVIS. Now will you also furnish us a list (you say you can not recall any of them now) of the committee of the chamber of commerce who have considered this subject and made a recommendation to the chamber which was adopted, together with the connections of each member? Mr. MYRICK. I will endeavor to do that; yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Because I understand the chamber of commerce itself has never acted upon this pending bill. Mr. MYRICK. No; but this pending bill, with the exception of the two or three amendments that have been made here, is The Hague rules as they came out of the convention which the chamber of commerce did indorse. Mr. DAVIS. On the recommendation of this committee that considered it? Mr. MYRICK. Well, you see, you speak of this committee; it did not particularly emanate from this committee. For instance, the annual meetings in 1922, 1923, 1928, and 1929 adopted resolutions advocating the rules. In 1922 Mr. DAVIS. Now in what language did they do it? Is it not a fact that the substance of their action was indorsing the principle of the uniform bill of lading? Mr. MYRICK. Oh, no; indorsing The Hague rules. In 1922: The chamber indorses these rules as representing a step in advance and asks Congress to enact legislation for The Hague rules with such interpretations as may be necessary. In 1923: Appropriate action should be taken for ratification of these rules in order that further progress may be made. In 1928: The chamber urges prompt legislation by Congress with a view to enactment of The Hague rules in suitable form to be applicable to American conditions. In 1929: There should be legislation providing for adoption of The Hague rules in form suitable to American conditions. Mr. DAVIS. When this recommendation of the committee came to the chamber, was anybody there who explained to the chamber, before they voted on it, that these Hague rules changed existing law in this country in many respects? |