Order of the Day for the House to be ments to be made by that Bill. put into a Committee read. THE BISHOP OF OXFORD said, the Amendment which that Bill would effect would be this-that under its action all beneficed clergymen who were now rectors would remain under the appellation of rectors, and all those who were now vicars would remain under the appellation of vicars; while all perpetual curates would become vicars. That was to say, there would henceforth be only two classes by name of beneficed clergy-namely, rectors and vicars. There was no sort of use in maintaining the three-fold designation, which was formerly a reality, but was now an unreality, introducing confusion without any countervailing advantage. House in Committee; Amendments made: The Report thereof to be received on Thursday next; and Bill to be printed as amended. No. 251. COURTS OF JUSTICIARY (SCOTLAND) SECOND READING. Order of the Day for the Second Reading read. THE LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, the measure was occupied with details in regard to legal proceedings in Scot land on which it would be better to postpone comment until they were in Committee. A strong feeling was entertained in Scotland that a large and comprehensive reform was necessary in respect to legal proceedings in that country, which must be regarded as very cumbrous, dilatory, and he was afraid very expensive. The Government were about to recommend the issue of a Royal Commission to inquire into the whole system of pleading and practice in the Scotch Courts, with a view to the introduction of improvements. The inquiry itself must necessarily occupy some time, and the legislation consequent upon it some further time. It was desirable, however, that the partial but urgent Amendments proposed by the Bill should be made, and there would be an opportunity of knowing how they would work. The arrangements now proposed, however, Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a." (The Lord Chancellor.) LORD WESTBURY understood that the Commission would embrace the subject included in the Bill, and that if the measure passed it would not be made the pretext for withdrawing the matter comprised within it from the inquiry of the Commissioners. Motion agreed to: Bill read 2 accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next. House adjourned at Seven o'clock, to Thursday next, half past Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tuesday, July 14, 1868. MINUTES.-SUPPLY-considered in Committee Colonial Shipping. Second Reading - Sir Robert Napier's Annuity * Election Petitions and Corrupt Practices at Elections (re-comm.) [63]—R.P.; Poor Relief [186] R.P.; Tithe Commutation, &c. Acts Amendment [218]; Public Depart ments Payments [212]; General Police and Improvement (Scotland) Act Amendment (re-comm.) [226]; Militia Pay; Drainage and Improvement of Lands (Ireland) Supplemental (No. 3) [229]; Liquidation* [220]. Report-Tithe Commutation, &c. Acts Amend ment [218]; Public Departments Payments Considered as amended - Turnpike Acts Con- Third Reading Sanitary Act (1866) Amend- The House met at Two of the clock. ARMY-INVALID OFFICERS FROM INDIA.-QUESTION. SIR ROBERT ANSTRUTHER said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, Whether the travelling allowance of Officers invalided home from Abyssinia has been disallowed; and, if so, for what reason? SIR JOHN PAKINGTON was understood to say that he could not answer that Question. "RUNNING HIS LETTERS" IN SCOTLAND.-QUESTION. SIR ROBERT ANSTRUTHER said, he wished to ask the Lord Advocate, What is entailed upon a priexpense soner by the process termed in Scotland running his letters," and whether he does not think it advisable that this process should, in the interests of accused persons of small means, be made as simple and inexpensive as possible? SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, in reply, that he very much regretted the terms in which the Question had been put, because it was calculated to mislead the public in two very important respects. Any person who was not conversant with the Rules and Regulations of the Army would infer that officers invalided home from Abyssinia came home entirely at their own cost; and, secondly, that these officers had been treated in a different way to which officers who came from any other part of the world were treated. He must. protest against any such inference. It might also be inferred that the War Office had a discretion in the matter, when the truth was that they had no power in reference to it. This case came under rules (Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Secretary THE LORD ADVOCATE stated, in reply, that the process in Scotland termed "running his letters," was one by which a criminal could have his trial removed from the provinces to Edinburgh. The expense was about £2 10s., and if that amount were diminished, many more prisoners would be induced to resort to the process, which would lead to as much inconvenience as the removal in England of all criminal trials from the Circuit Courts which applied to all officers from whatever part of the world they came. Officers who came home on sick leave were landed free of all cost in their own country; and the only cost to which they themselves could be put were travelling allowances as affected by accidental delays upon the way and the expense of travelling to their own homes from the place where they were landed. He thought, however, that the rule, restricted as he had explained, bore hardly upon some of the officers who came home ill, and that they should be sent free of cost to their homes, wherever those homes might be. On this account they were now considering a new rule. The rule had hitherto been that officers on sick leave should be considered in the same position as officers on general leave; but the new rule would be that officers sent home by a Medical Board should receive all their travelling expenses. SIR ROBERT ANSTRUTHER said, he wished to know whether this would be prospective only, or whether it would apply to the officers whom he had referred to? to London. ELECTION PETITIONS AND CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS [recommitted] BILL-[BILL 63.] Gathorne Hardy, Sir Stafford Northcote.) COMMITTEE. [Progress, 10th July.] Bill considered in Committee. (In the Committee.) Clause 17 (Report of the Judge as to Corrupt Practices). MR. J. STUART MILL: The addition which I propose to this clause is one of great importance, since it raises the question of providing better security against corrupt practices in municipal, as well as Parliamentary elections. No one is likely to deny that bribery in municipal elections deserves repression as much, and is as unfit to be tolerated or indulged, as bribery in Parliamentary elections; and the special reason why it should be dealt with in this Bill is that, as we are told by all who know anything about the matter, municipal bribery is the great school of Parliamentary bribery. Hon. Members of this House have on a former occasion testified to this fact from their personal knowledge, and I shall quote only two authorities for it. One is that eminent Conservative solicitor, Mr. Philip Rose, formerly as intimately | tions Act; and I confidently claim, both for known to hon. Gentleman opposite as his the Amendment and for the new clause, the partner, Mr. Spofforth, now is. Mr. Rose, support of all hon. Members who really before the Select Committee of this House desire to lay the axe at the root of electoral on Corrupt Practices, in 1860, expressed corruption. The hon. Member moved to himself in these wordsadd at the end of the clause the following words: "My strong opinion is, that all the efforts which are now being made to check bribery at Parliamentary elections will fail, for this reason, that you do not attempt to strike at the root of the offence. The real nursery for the evil is the municipal contests; and those oft-recurring contests have led to the establishment of what I might almost term an organized system of cor. ruption in the municipal boroughs throughout the kingdom, which provides a machinery ready made to hand, available when the Parliamentary contest arrives." My next authority is the Committee itself, before whom this evidence was given, and who reported "That it has been proved to the satisfaction of your Committee, that an intimate connection exists between bribery at municipal and Parliamentary elections, and it is expedient that the provisions as to punishments and forfeitures for the offences of bribery at each such election should be assimilated as far as possible." Notwithstanding this recommendation of the Select Committee, which I hope that the next House of Commons will see the propriety of adopting in its integrity, I have not ventured to propose that the present Bill should provide a machinery for the investigation and punishment of corrupt practices at municipal elections. But I do propose, by the present Amendment, and by an additional clause which will follow in due course, that when the machinery which the Bill does provide for the investigation of corrupt practices at Parliamentary elections is actually set in motion, the inquiry may extend to municipal as well as to Parliamentary corruption. If the House adopt my Amendment, the Special Commission, which is already empowered to inquire into Parliamentary elections previous to that which caused the issue of the Commission, will have the power conferred on it of inquiring, to exactly the same extent, into previous municipal elections. By the additional clause, the Judge who tries an Election Petition, may take evidence to prove that an elector who voted at the Parliamentary election had been guilty of corrupt practices at any municipal election within two years previous, for the purpose, of course, of showing that his vote was corruptly influenced at the Parliamentary election. The period of two years is selected with reference to the term fixed by the 56th clause of the Municipal Corpora "And it shall be competent for any such Commission to inquire into corrupt practices at previous municipal Elections within the county or borough as fully as into corrupt practices at previous Parliamentary Elections." THE CHAIRMAN said, the Amendment of the hon. Member was not sufficiently relevant to the Bill to enable it to be inserted in the Bill in the absence of a direct Instruction of the House to the Committee on the subject. The Amendment had reference to municipal elections, and the Bill referred only to the elections of Members of Parliament. MR. TREEBY submitted, that if bribery at municipal elections tended to corruption at Parliamentary elections, the Amendment was relative. MR. BOUVERIE observed, that, under this clause the whole practice would be changed. The Judge, and not the Committee, would have to inquire into the seat, and the alleged corrupt practices at the election. The Judge, and not the Committee, would hear the evidence. The Judge, and not the Committee, would report to the House whether extensive corruption had or had not prevailed among the constituency. Hitherto it had devolved on the Chairman of the Committee to bring the matter on the Report before the House; but on whom would that duty devolve under the new system? On the Government? They had already enough to do. Was it, then, to be left haphazard to any private Member on either side of the House who might read the shorthand writer's notes, but who had neither seen the witnesses nor heard their evidence? That would be a most lame and impotent conclusion, more likely to encourage party feeling and give latitude to corrupt practices than the present system. The arrangement proposed would lead to nothing being done. What he suggested was that the issue of the Commission should depend on the finding of the Judge, and not on any Address being moved. He was prepared to move the insertion of words in this clause, making the issuing of the Commission obligatory whenever the Judge stated in his Report that he had reason to believe that corrupt practices had prevailed at an election. MR. J. STUART MILL observed that he had so altered his Amendment as to obviate the difficulty started by the Chairman. He proposed it should run thus"And it shall be competent for any such Commission to inquire how far corrupt practices at any previous municipal Election may have conduced to corrupt practices at the Parliamentary Election." THE CHAIRMAN felt bound to say that the Amendment of the hon. Member for Westminster, even as it now stood, extended beyond the bond fide limits of the Bill, and the Committee could not well entertain it. He would therefore suggest that the hon. Member should bring up a clause to the effect stated on the Report. MR. J. STUART MILL said, he would avail himself of that suggestion. MR. DARBY GRIFFITH supported the proposal of the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Bouverie) and hoped he would frame a clause such as he had described. THE SOLICITOR GENERAL said, he thought that the clause as it stood was very important and valuable in itself, and that, therefore, the Committee would not wish to get rid of it altogether. It proposed to enact that when the Judge should report that corrupt practices extensively prevailed in a county or borough the House should be placed in exactly the same position as it was at present when a Committee made a Report to a similar effect. The Amendment to be proposed by the hon. Member for Westminster would, if substituted for this clause, deprive the House of the discretionary power it had hitherto exercised upon the Report of a Committee being made to it alleging the existence of extensive corrupt practices in a county or borough. It was the more necessary that this discretionary power should be left to the House, seeing that the present Bill made the ratepayers liable for the expenses of the Commission. He therefore hoped that the clause would be allowed to stand. MR. M. CHAMBERS said, he was afraid that the Judges who were appointed to try these Petitions would be placed in a very awkward and unpleasant position by this Bill; they would first be requested to make a Report as to whether or not corrupt practices extensively prevailed in a borough or county, and when they had made that Report they were to be told that they were not to be believed, and that the whole Inquiry must be gone over again before the House could act in the matter. He thought that a Commission should issue as a matter of course upon the Report of the Judge that corrupt practices were extensively prevalent in a county or borough being made. He did not think that in one case out of ten the Judge would make such a Report, as he would content himself with ascertaining the existence of one or two cases of bribery, and would then make a dry Report to the effect that the seat was vacant by reason of bribery having been committed. MR. NEATE said, he agreed with the hon. and learned Member who had just spoken that the clause should either be struck out or considerably amended. He was of opinion that a Judge should not be called on to say extra judicially "that he had reason to believe" that bribery extensively prevailed. MR. WHITBREAD said, he did not think the House could compel the Crown to issue a Commission in these cases. The best plan would be to pass the clause and discuss the question in a separate form. He trusted that the Committee would be allowed to make some progress with the Bill. MR. BOUVERIE said, he had endeavoured to discuss the provisions of the Bill with a view to rendering it more efficient. No one, he thought, could accuse him of trying in any way to retard its passing. [Oh!"] He thought that the course now being adopted would render corruption more easy, instead of more difficult; but, finding the Committee against him, he would withdraw the Amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clauses 18 to 22, inclusive, agreed to. Clause 23 (Service of Petition). MR. BOUVERIE wished to know whether a Member was to be tapped on the shoulder and served with an Election Petition in the same way that a man was now served with a writ? THE SOLICITOR GENERAL said, he had never understood that tapping on the shoulder was a necessary accompaniment to the serving of a writ. Clause agreed to. Clauses 24 and 25 agreed to. Clause 26 (Shorthand Writer to attend Trial of Election Petition). MR. M. CHAMBERS said, he objected to the construction of the clause, which would throw a monopoly of the shorthand writing into the hands of Messrs. Gurney, who already enjoyed the monopoly of the shorthand writing of the House of Commons. Without in the slightest degree wishing to impugn the skill of those gentlemen and their staff he thought that the shorthand writing business arising out of these Inquiries should be thrown open to the shorthand writing profession generally. He suggested that the shorthand writer to attend these Inquiries should be appointed either by the Judge or by the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment. MR. NEATE said, he would move the Amendment of which Notice had been given by the hon. Member for Hereford (Mr. Clive), to leave out "On the trial of an Election Petition under this Act, the shorthand writer of the House of Commons, or his deputy, shall attend, and shall be sworn by the judge faithfully and truly to take down the evidence given at the trial, &c." and insert "On the trial of an Election Petition under this Act, a shorthand writer shall be appointed by the judge (in the manner hereinafter provided), to attend, and shall be sworn by the judge faithfully and truly to take down the evidence given at the trial, &c." MR. GLADSTONE said, he should support the clause as it stood, seeing that if they were to interfere in this way with every small matter in the Bill they had better at once proceed to construct a Bill themselves, and to treat the initiatory action of the Government as amounting to nothing. The shorthand writing of the House of Commons as performed by Messrs. Gurney was incomparably well done. He had never seen any operation of the human mind combined with that of the hand that appeared to him so wonderful as the precision with which the proceedings in the Committees of that House, where the utmost confusion frequently prevailed, were taken down and read off fluently by the shorthand writer. If the Government were to announce that this Bill was merely of a temporary character the greater part of these discussions would at once fall to the ground. MR. M. CHAMBERS observed that his object was merely to permit the direct employment of those who now did the work. MR. DISRAELI: With the permission of the Committee I will take this opportu nity of stating that it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to propose that this shall be a limited Bill, to remain in force for three years only. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 27 agreed to. Clause 28 (Practice of House of Commons to be observed). MR. MAGUIRE observed that perhaps this would be the proper time for him to move a proviso, to which he believed the Government would not object. As the Bill stood Parliamentary agents would not be entitled to appear professionally_in Election cases before the Judges. The object of his proviso was to provide that agents or counsel now entitled to practise in the House of Commons in respect of election matters, should be entitled to practise before the Judges in respect of similar matters. THE SOLICITOR GENERAL said, he would make some additions to the hon. Member's proviso, and bring it up as a new clause. Clause agreed to. Clause 30 (Reception of Judge). MR. J. LOWTHER said, he was about to propose the insertion of words which would throw the expenses of the Court held by the Judge upon the locality whose misconduct had been the cause of the outlay. He apprehended that the object of the House of Commons was to educate public opinion to bear against electoral corruption. With that view he thought it would be well to make the existence of such corruption in any community inconvenient to that community. The presence of a Judge for a short time in a borough was not looked upon as either a disgrace or an inconvenience to that borough. On several occasions the House had seen the anxiety displayed by communities to have their particular locality selected as the assize town. There were festivities of various kinds including the "Assize Ball "-during the visit of a Judge to a county town. Perhaps next year they should hear of "the Bribery Ball." The House as much as possible ought to avoid giving the smallest ground for the supposi tion that the visit of the Judge to try a case under this Bill was to be an occasion of merrymaking. He had taken the words |