Vote agreed to.

(4.) £52,453, to complete the sum for Foreign Office.

MR. ALDERMAN LUSK asked for an explanation of the increased number of clerks employed, and the large augmentation of this Vote year after year.

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH stated that the arranging of a large accumulation of papers in the Library had necessitated a temporary increase.

MR. NEATE wished to know who were employed in making the translations, which were often very slovenly and incorrect?

COLONEL SYKES said, he thought there was mystification in these accounts. Items were bandied about from one Department to another, and it was impossible to detect where the items of the net increase were to be found.

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH said, he thought the hon. and gallant Gentleman should not object to the introduction of a better classification. He presumed that all the clerks in the Foreign Office were acquainted with modern languages, and were therefore intrusted with translations. COLONEL SYKES said, he objected, not to an improved classification, but to constant alterations. Vote agreed to.

(5.) £19,990, to complete the sum for

Colonial Office.

(6.) £65,725, to complete the sum for Board of Trade.

MR. ALDERMAN LUSK remarked that the expenses of this Department were continually increasing. He thought that some of those Inspectors who were considered necessary to be employed to look after different branches of trade should be paid by those for whose benefit they were appointed.

SIR J. CLARKE JERVOISE inquired as to the Inspectors of lime-juice, whose payment was included in the Vote?

MR. CHILDERS, with reference to an increase in the number of temporary clerks

MR. WALDEGRAVE-LESLIE thought that, instead of employing sixty temporary clerks, persons who had been superseded and pensioned for reasons difficult to understand might be utilized. He was surprised that more notice had not been taken of the large nember of able-bodied officials of the Board of Trade, who had been pensioned off at large retiring allowances, to make room for new appointments.

MR. HEYGATE inquired whether the present system of collecting agricultural statistics was to be continued, or whether a better had been devised?

MR. READ remarked that the ex

pense of these statistics had increased by £4,500. In 1866 the sum was £10,000 for two Returns; whereas it was now £14,500: last year it was £18,000, and only one Return was collected.

COLONEL SYKES said, the hon. Member (Mr. Read) was mistaken, there being a decrease and not an increase of £4,500. He believed these statistics would prove of very great value as the system became better organized, and the prejudices of the agriculturists disappeared.

MR. STEPHEN CAVE stated, in answer to the remarks of his hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Childers), that supplementary clerks were extinct as a class, there being only a few left, and no others being appointed. The temporary clerks were exactly the class whose employment his hon. Friend wanted on weekly wages, and discharged had suggested, they being taken on when when the occasion for their services ceased. This was a better plan than the employment of law stationers' clerks, who were often of a class which rendered it undesirable that they should mix with the other clerks. The hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Alderman Lusk) had noticed the increasing expenses of the Board; but he must be aware that the increase had been caused by various Votes of the House, imposing upon the Board many duties which they were by no means anxious to undertake, and this accounted for the aug. mented number of junior clerks. Inspection of gas companies had been thrown on the Board of Trade, and next year his hon.

Friend would see an increase of charge on that account. The inspection of lime juice also was one of those things which had been forced upon the Department. Medical officers had declared that lime juice was the proper preventitive against scurvy. The Government knew, however, that the juice which had hitherto been served out to merchant vessels was very bad. It was, in fact, not lime juice at all, but was composed of nitric instead of citric acid. The country demanded that remedies should he taken against the scurvy, lime juice was the best remedy, and therefore the Government were compelled to appoint an inspector of that juice. Then there was an inspection of oyster fisheries and also of cables and anchors, both of which measures were carried in that House against the wish of the late Government, and he feared he was himself instrumental in carrying them. And so it was, hon. Gentlemen in the beginning of the year perhaps urged the Government to undertake such and such a duty, and afterwards when they saw the Estimates complained of increase of charge. But new duties could not be undertaken by any Department without entailing additional expense. With regard to the inspection of ships he had to say that he had always resisted the movement in that direction, because he believed it would add enormously to the Votes. The same remark applied to training ships and sailors' homes. As an instance of the kind of pressure to which the Board of Trade was subjected he might mention that only that very day he had received a deputation, urging upon his Department to undertake the responsibility of seeing that railways were possessed of proper stations and level crossings. With regard to what had been said about superannuation, it should be borne in mind that there was a tendency to have senior clerks, who from various circumstances were not quite capable of performing their duties. He agreed with the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. Childers) that the system of competitive examination, though very bad as regarded the lowest class, would do away with much of the evil to which he had referred. There were some cases, however, in which it was better to get rid of a man by giving him a retiring allowance than to continue him in office. With regard to agricultural statistics he might express the hope that they were year by year becoming more and more correct. He trusted they would become still more accurate. They

were practically becoming less expensive so far as collection was concerned, and would in time work more smoothly than at present. He believed that many of the higher classes and of the landlords themselves had need of education on the subject. It was only the other day that he got a letter from a gentleman of high position, who, in answer to a circular asking for agricultural statistics, declined to give them, alleging that this was a legacy which the present Government had inherited from the inquisitorial Whigs. He had answered all the questions that had been put to him, and had only to say, in conclusion, that the heads of Departments were all most anxious to economize as much as possible.

MR. READ inquired whether it was the intention of the Government at any future time to have horses included in the Returns?

MR. STEPHEN CAVE said, he agreed with his hon. Friend that the number of horses in the country would be an extremely valuable addition to the Returns; but as the Returns were entirely voluntary, they must wait for a short time before they could ask people to make any addition to them.

MR. WALDEGRAVE-LESLIE wished to know in what part of the United Kingdom the foreshores were situated which were alluded to in the blue book? Where they in Scotland or in the South of England?

MR. STEPHEN CAVE said, he could not answer the question. Applications were constantly being made to the Board of Trade to arrange disputes with regard to foreshores in various parts of the kingdom.

MR. HEYGATE said, he thought the answer of the right hon. Gentleman, with regard to agricultural statistics, was satisfactory. He hoped the experiment would be persevered in.

Vote agreed to.

(7.) Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That a sum, not exceeding £3,176, be granted defray the Charge which will come in course of to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1869, for the Salaries of the Officers and Attendants of the Household of the Lord

Lieutenant of Ireland and other Expenses."

COLONEL FRENCH bore his testimony to the admirable mauner in which the present Lord Lieutenant of Ireland discharged the duties of his Office, and expressed his belief that an addition should be made to

his allowance. In case of a change of) Government, no future Viceroy would be likely to maintain the dignity of the Office with the splendour with which it had been maintained by Lord Abercorn on the sum now allowed.

MR. DISRAELI said, that the Committee should not contemplate anything so distressing as the retirement of Lord Abercorn from his present Office; and he thought that the hon. and gallant Gentleman had proved that it was not in the interest of the Government to increase the salary of the Lord Lieutenant.

MR. ALDERMAN LUSK moved the omission from the Vote of the sum of £1,574, appropriated to "Queen's Plates" in Ireland. He saw no reason why the State should contribute to the maintenance of racing and modern racing practices. If gentlemen wished to hunt or to run racehorses they might do so, but should not ask the public to pay for prizes for such questionable objects as the latter. Modern racing had degenerated into something like the lowest description of trading; and when they saw, as they might do by a reference to the public prints and to police Courts, that many of high and low position in society were ruined by following such pursuits, he strongly protested against the House being a party to these proceedings.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Item of £1,574 6s. 2d. for Queen's Plates to be run for in Ireland, be omitted from the proposed vote.”—(Mr. Lusk.)

COLONEL FRENCH said, the hon. Member had never succeeded in reducing any Vote, often as he had attempted to do so. This question had been so often discussed that it was not worth while to debate it now. He felt surprised at finding an Alderman of the City of London, the Corporation of which had always been so strongly supported in that House by the Irish party, opposing a grant of that description. It should be remembered that a much larger sum was contributed from the Civil List to racing purposes in this country. In London when a mob levelled the Park railings they were re-placedat the public expense, and it was hard to object to an item of this kind affecting Ireland. The hon. Member ought not to break the contract between the Irish Members and the Liberal party on so trifling a Vote.

THE O'CONOR DON said, he wished to know on what principle the Plates were

allocated. If the object were the improvement of the breed of horses, the Plates ought not to be given to one locality only, but ought to be distributed to various parts of the country.

GENERAL DUNNE also thought the Plates should be more fairly divided.

THE EARL OF MAYO said, that the races and the conditions under which they were run were regulated by Her Majesty's Master of the Horse, who was quite ready to attend to any suggestion. The condi. tions under which the Queen's Plates were to be run for in future had been altered recently, with the view of promoting improvement in the breed of horses. He was sure that the representations of those who were most interested would be readily attended to; but he believed the general opinion was that the running for the Plates was most useful at the Curragh, because more horses were trained there than anywhere else. The bon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Alderman Lusk) had referred to facts which everybody must deplore; but the Irish turf was entirely free from the scandals alluded to.

COLONEL SYKES wished to know what were the duties of the Gentlemen-at-Large?

THE EARL OF MAYO said, a Viceroy must have a Household, and it could hardly be said that the Lord Lieutenant was oversupplied with attendants.

MR. ALDERMAN LUSK said, he would this Session withdraw his Motion.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Original Question put, and agreed to. (8.) £14,927, to complete the sum for Chief Secretary, Ireland, Offices. (9.) £12,646, to complete the sum for Paymaster General's Office.

(10.) £4,136, to complete the sum for Queen's and Lord Treasurer's Remem. brancer, &c.

(11.) £22,700, to complete the sum for Commissioners of Her Majesty's Works, England.

MR. ALDERMAN LAWRENCE asked why the property connected with metropolitan improvements made under the direction of this Department had not been sold, and the accounts completed?

MR. WALDEGRAVE LESLIE observed that during the time the First Commissioner of Works had been in Office no Royal Arms were allowed to be put on the metropolitan or provincial branches of the

Post Office. He hoped the noble Lord would inquire into the matter. As the noble Lord was a member of the Constitutional party, this conduct must be very painful to his feelings.

Vote agreed to.

(12.) £17,546, to complete the sum for Board of Works, Ireland.

(13.) £36,354, to complete the sum for House of Commons' Offices.

(14.) £28,585, to complete the sum for Privy Council Office.

(15.) £1,918, to complete the sum for Privy Seal Office.

(16.) £6,407, to complete the sum for Civil Service Commission.

(17.) £25,500, to complete the sum for Exchequer and Audit Department.

(18.) 16,958, to complete the sum for Office of Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues, &c.

MR. ALDERMAN LAWRENCE complained that all the charges were not inserted in the account, and asked for an explanation. He also called attention to the fact that the road through Kensington Palace Gardens to Bayswater was closed to public cabs, notwithstanding that to a great extent it was maintained out of the public funds.

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH said, that the accounts furnished to the Treasury by the Office of Woods were net accounts, after making certain deductions. They were accounts such as would be furnished by an owner of an estate, after making various allowances. The Woods and Forests had no option in the matter of the road referred to; but he would make inquiries on the subject.

SIR JOHN GRAY thought that the closing of the road against the public was a very questionable proceeding.

(26.) £3,429, to complete the sum for Public Works Loan Commission, &c. (27.) £2,820, to complete the sum for Lunacy Commission.

(28.) £1,449, to complete the sum for Registrars of Friendly Societies.

(29.) £12,438, to complete the sum for Charity Commission.

(30.) £19,071, to complete the sum for Patent Office, &c.

(31.) £215,909, to complete the sum for Printing and Stationery.

(32.) £11,867, to complete the sum for Poor Law Commission, Scotland.

(33.) £4,608, to complete the sum for General Register Office, Scotland.

(34.) £3,206, to complete the sum for Lunacy Commission, Scotland.

(35.) £9,223, to complete the sum for Fishery Board, Scotland.

(36.) £2,296, to complete the sum for Public Record Office, Ireland.

(37.) £63,267, to complete the sum for Poor Law Commission, Ireland.

(38.) £14,722, to complete the sum for General Registrar Office, &c. Ireland.

(39.) £250, Boundary Survey, Ireland. (40.) £1,188, to complete the sum for Charitable Donations and Bequests, Ireland.

Re-committed Resolution, reported this day, read, as followeth :

"That a sum, not exceeding £42,079, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Expenses of Greenwich Hospital and Schools, which will on the 31st day of March 1869." come in course of payment during the year ending

Whereupon-

£127,600, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray (41.) Resolved, That a sum, not exceeding the Expenses of Greenwich Hospital and Schools, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1869.

(42.) Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That a sum, not exceeding £20,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1869, for the Compensation granted to the Portpatrick ment of Mail Communication between Donaghadee Railway Company in consequence of the Abandonand Portpatrick."

MR. NEATE moved that the Chairman

report Progress, as they had now come to House had received no information upon the Supplementary Estimates, and the

them.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."-(Mr. Neate.)

MR. DISRAELI reminded the House they had only sat since nine o'clock. Time was now very valuable, and he wished to get through Supply to-night that they might proceed on Thursday morning with the Corrupt Practices Bill.

CAPTAIN VIVIAN observed that there was likely to be a discussion on a postponed Army Vote.

MR. ALDERMAN LUSK said, he trusted they would be allowed to pass the two additional Votes on the Paper, and thus facilitate Business.

at

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.
Original Question put, and agreed to.
(43.) £7,500, Compensation, Explosion
Clerkenwell.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER explained that the sum collected in local subscriptions had been expended in providing medicines and sustenance for the sufferers during the time they were incapacitated for work, and in the case of those permanently injured towards pro

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, that he had postponed the Army Vote in order that a Paper which he had presented might be printed. The Paper was not yet in the hands of Members; but he hoped the House would be content to pass the Vote.

COLONEL JERVIS said, that they had been waiting for months for this particular Paper, and without it they could not determine whether the Report of the Select Committee or the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman in respect to a certain scheme of retirement should be considered. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, that the hon. and gallant Member laboured under a complete misapprehension. The House had never waited for the Paper, which he only mentioned a few days ago. The Paper contained no scheme of any reform, nor had he any scheme to propose. COLONEL JERVIS stated that for months the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. Childers) refrained from pressing this question because it was clearly understood that the War Office had a scheme to propose. MR. CHILDERS observed that the right hon. Baronet had on two occasions stated that he was preparing a scheme, and he, in consequence, asked for the production of the Paper in connection with it.

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, he had never made any promise to produce any scheme. The Report to be produced was simply that of the actuaries on the scheme

The

against dependence on parochial relief. In some cases, also, it had been applied in the purchase of tools to workmen where their tools had been destroyed. Certain furniture also had been provided out of the fund. The voluntary efforts of that Committee had been of great assistance to the sufferers, and the benevolent persons engaged were deserving of every commendation for their admirable exertions. Committee had represented to the Government that they were entirely unable to give compensation to those whose property had been destroyed. Some of the parties had been advised that they had a remedy against the Hundred as in the case of a riot; but that had been tried, and it was decided that the diabolical proceeding was not in the nature of a riot, but an attempt to rescue from prison a prisoner who had committed an offence against the State. Under these circumstances it was thought the Government ought to make some compensation to those who had suffered by the destruction of their property. They had therefore sent a proper person to make inquiry, and, although they had not yet got a detailed Report, it was believed the sum now taken would be sufficient for the purpose.

MR. NEATE said, he thought the Treasury occupied a most unenviable position in allowing that to be done by private individuals which ought to have been done by the State.

MR. WYLD eulogized the charitable and public-spirited efforts made by the Prime Minister at the time of the explosion to assuage the sufferings of those who were wounded by the explosion, and men