the Motion made by his hon. and gallant | an opportunity of bringing that most imFriend. COLONEL JERVIS said, that he felt bound not to withdraw his Motion for the production of these Papers. portant matter, of which he had given Notice, under the consideration of the House, before the close of the Session. MR. DISRAELI: The hon. Member can bring on his Motion upon the Report of Supply under any circumstances. MR. O'BEIRNE expressed his dissatisfaction with such an arrangement. Registration Bill must, he presumed, become law before the close of this Session, the Government having pledged themselves to carry them. The Corrupt Practices at Elections Bill might fairly take precedence that evening of the Cattle Market Bill. [" No, no!"] MR. DISRAELI said, he trusted the House would consider before giving a decision on a point which was of the utmost importance. If the House were to insist upon the production of Papers and Corres- MR. DISRAELI: The House will sit pondence which concerned the preparation on Saturday, and I have no doubt the hon. and preliminary consideration of measures, Gentleman will be then afforded the opporthey would thereby put a stop to that free-tunity he desires. dom of criticism which was always invited MR. CANDLISH asked whether the on such occasions, and which contributed right hon. Gentleman would put down the so much to the perfection of public mea- Corrupt Practices at Elections Bill as the sures. The moment that it became known first Order of the Day for that evening, it that the opinions of those most competent having been fixed for the Morning Sitting? to judge of public measures, and who were["No, no!"] That Bill and the Irish invited to express them, were likely to be produced in that House, great disadvantage to the public service would result, because everybody would naturally shrink from the responsibility he would have to encounter. Instead, then, of the Government having the advantage of the suggestions which they were in the habit of receiving, and the information and criticism which better enabled them to carry out any changes which they contemplated in the administration of public affairs, they would find themselves in the position of having to deal with merely mechanical persons, who would afford only information upon points on which they were well up, and they (the Government) would lose the advantage arising from those large spontaneous suggestions, and from that general information which tended greatly to the advantage of the public interests. He trusted then, for the sake of the public service, that the House would not assent to this demand for the production of the Papers called for. Question "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question," put, and agreed to. MR. DISRAELI, referring to several other Amendments on the Paper, said, it was really of the utmost importance that the House should go into Committee upon the Army Vote. He hoped that the hon. Member for Cashel (Mr. O'Beirne), who had a Motion on the Paper respecting the Shoeburyness experiments, would waive his right, in order to allow the Vote in question to be taken in Committee. MR. O'BEIRNE said, he would withdraw his Motion, on the understanding that the right hon. Gentleman would give him MR. MILNER GIBSON desired to remind the House that the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government had declared that all business connected with the question of Reform would be the first to be wound up. The Irish Registration Bill was not only connected with Reform, but its immediate passing was a necessity. There could, therefore, be no reason why it should not have precedence of the Cattle Market Bill. ["No, no!"] He trusted that the right hon. Gentleman would adhere to the declarations which he had made, and either proceed with Reform measures or assign some intelligible reasons for deviating from that course. MR. DISRAELI: I repeat it is the determination of Her Majesty's GovernElections Bill, and all I can say is this-I ment to carry the Corrupt Practices at will not advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament until that measure is definitely decided upon by the House. With that view alone I propose a two o'clock Sitting of the House to morrow in order to go on with that Bill. With regard to the appeal of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Milner Gibson) on the subject of Corrupt Practices, I do not think that I have said anything to justify that phrase as a description of my policy. My wish is to fulfil the engagements I have made with a number of Gentlemen on both sides of the House. I have, therefore, fixed this evening for the Metropolitan Foreign Cattle Market Bill, and I feel myself bound to adhere to that arrangement. I do not, of course, know how long the discussion upon that subject may take; but perhaps it may terminate before the usual time of adjournment. In that case we shall take the Irish Registration Bill, which is on the Paper. In the new fervour for Reform principles of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Milner Gibson) of which by the way he gave us very little taste during the general discussions he seems to throw a doubt upon our sincerity in those questions immediately connected with it. He may, however, rest assured that the Irish Registration Bill will pass this Session, because without it we cannot make the appeal to the country which we are so desirous of expediting. Allowing this arrangement, then, to stand, I propose that on to-morrow at two o'clock we shall proceed with the Corrupt Practices Bill. BRISTOL ELECTION.-QUESTION. MR. SERJEANT GASELEE said, that having given way to the Government on a former occasion on being told that he should have an opportunity of bringing this subject forward, he found that the pledge given by the Government had been fulfilled by his Motion being placed thirtyninth on the Orders of the Day. Finding he should be out of Order in now bringing forward his Motion, he wished to ask the Solicitor General in the absence of the Attorney General, Whether it was his intention to prosecute those who had been guilty of bribery and other malpractices at the last Bristol election? THE SOLICITOR GENERAL said, he had no doubt, though he had had no communication with the right hon. Gentleman on the subject, that the Attorney General had given consideration to this Question. He apprehended, however, that his learned. Friend would think much further inquiry necessary before he could decide upon instituting proceedings, about the result of which it would be impossible to judge. MR. NEATE offered his notes on the evidence taken before the Bristol Election Committee to the Attorney General, and assured him that the information they contained would enable him to prosecute a dozen persons without a moment's hesita tion. NATIONAL BOARD OF EDUCATION (IRELAND).-OBSERVATIONS. SIR JOHN GRAY rose to call attention to the alterations recently made in the Second, Third, and Fourth Lessons issued to the Schools under the charge of the Board of National Education, Ireland; and to move for the Correspondence and Minutes of Evidence of the Proceedings in reference thereto. The hon. Member said it would be in the recollection of the House that at the close of last Session, when the Education Estimates were before the House, he raised a discussion with reference to primary education in Ireland; and he then showed conclusively that the mixed system of education was a mere myth, and the case he had on that occasion to bring under their notice afforded a remarkable illustration of the curious effect of attempting to prop up a rotten system, and of the false position that fraudulent system enforced the Commissioners to take. The illustrative case he had to adduce occurred in the city of Kilkenny, which he had the honour to represent. The Rev. Mr. Porter, a Presbyterian min ister, casually visited the model school in that city, and complained that most im proper passages were admitted to the lesson books and sanctioned by the Board. The first passage pointed out as improper, was a portion of the most exquisitely beautiful of the national ballads com posed by the late Samuel Lover. That ballad, The Angel's Whisper, which was to be found on every Protestant drawingroom table in Ireland, and which is not less known or admired in England, gives a most truthful and touching picture of the love and faith which adorn the Irish peasant's home, was deemed improper by the rev. gentleman because it contained these words a new edition of the second book, from which this improper ballad has been expunged, in conformity with Archbishop Whately's rule of shutting out every allusion to Catholic practices, and by degrees Protestantizing the children. The reverend censor proceeded then to the fourth book, and there he found a passage quoted from the old English chronicles, as translated by John S., descriptive of the death of an English Catholic Queen, Philippa. The dying Catholic Queen is described by the chronicler as making the sign of the Cross on her heart-and Lord Berners translated the passage in the same way-and commending her husband and children to the protection of Heaven. The Rev. Mr. Porter objected to this historical work, because it represented the dying Christian to have made the sign of the Cross, and the Commissioners, true to the ideas of mixed education, have falsified the quotation in a new edition, to please the bigotry of those who abhor the symbol of redemption. The third book came then under his censorship. It contained a description, by a Protestant historian, of one of the most remarkable of the Irish ecclesiastical sees -the old see of Glendalough, known to tourists as the Seven Churches. The historian referred to the monastic ruins, once beautiful, and dedicated to the service of God, but now in desolate decay, and because they were built by Catholics the rev. gentleman objected to its being said that they were dedicated to God's service, and demanded that the description of an Irish ruin should be shut out from schools in which Irish children are taught. He (Sir John Gray) would not dwell on the moral of all this; the Commissioners complied with the demand, and the three books have been cancelled and withdrawn from every school in Ireland, and new editions substituted on the complaint of this most tolerant advocate of the mixed system. THE EARL OF MAYO said, the Government were not responsible for the alterations made in the books referred to. If the hon. Gentleman would give a list of the Returns he required, he (the Earl of Mayo) would take care to furnish him with all the information he required. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, in reference to a Question put to him by the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Sheridan) at an early part of the day, he had only to say that Mr. Goddard's name was a long time before the War Office. If the hon. Member would communicate with him (Sir John Pakington) privately he would endeavour to satisfy him upon the subject he alluded to. Main Question "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," put, and agreed to. SUPPLY-ARMY ESTIMATES. SUPPLY-corsidered in Committee. (In the Committee.) Question again proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £389,800, be granted to Her Majesty (in addition to the sum of £81,000 already voted on account), towards defraying the Charge for Full Pay of Reduced and Retired Officers, and Half Pay, which will come in course of payment from the first day of April 1868 to the 31st day of March 1869, inclusive." GENERAL DUNNE called attention to the Report of the Committee on the Military Reserve Funds; and referred to the several schemes suggested for promoting retirement among officers of the Royal Artillery and Engineers, contending that the inducement to be offered to officers to retire should be equal to their hopes if they remained in the corps. The system of purchasing out the officers of the Engineers and of the Artillery with sums from a reserve fund to which they never had contributed was a most objectionable one, and had been condemned by a Committee who had gone very fully into the subject. He hoped that the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War would inform the House that they were going to put an end to this mode of purchasing out officers, and to do something towards carrying out the recommendations of the Committee on the subject. MR. CHILDERS, while admitting that the subject was a difficult one, and while not blaming the Government, thought at the same time that it was very unfortunate the War Department had not come to a decision in reference to the recommendations of the Committee to which the hon. and gallant General (General Dunne) had just referred. On the other question, nothing could be worse than the system under which the officers of nonpurchase corps were now retired. A fixed sum was provided, out of which officers of a certain standing might or might not, according to their rank, receive annuities of £600 or £450 a year; but it was a farce to call this a system of retirement. The Committee recommended that there should be a fixed scale according to length of service, and that officers should be allowed to compound for the payments to which they would be entitled. The only thing the House had got before them in reference to the intentions of the Government was a Paper, drawn up by the actuaries and based upon speculations entirely gratuitous, as far as the Committee were concerned, on the part of gentlemen in the War Department and at the Horse Guards. It was true that some of these gentlemen came before the Committee, and the Committee had heard some of these speculations; but they never even alluded to them in their Report; and the Paper was perfectly useless so far as the House might want it.. He must therefore disregard it as an authority in the discussion of the question. Even according to the view of the parties themselves the scheme was so absurd that it was impossible for reasonable men to deal with it. He hoped, seeing what ideas were in vogue in his office, that his right hon. Friend the Secretary for War would not commit Parliament and the country to any change in the present arrangements till next Session. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON, in reply to the observations of the hon. and gallant Member (General Dunne), with reference to the reserve fund, said, that as the change involved in the Report of the Committee was a very important one he thought the best course to adopt, looking to the interests of the army was to consider it during the Recess. He had therefore applied to the Treasury and had obtained their sanction to deal with the reserve fund exactly as heretofore up to the time when the Estimates would be introduced next year. By that time the Government would have made up their minds as to the course which they would be prepared to take in reference to the fund. As to the observations which had fallen from his hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract (Mr. Childers), he could only repeat what he had already stated, that it would be absolutely necessary before long to have a new plan of retirement for the non-purchase corps. The questions involved, however, were very complicated and difficult, and it was far more important that any scheme which was devised should be well done than that it should be done quickly. He would assure his hon. Friend (Mr. Childers) that no premature action would be taken upon the subject to which he referred, and that nothing would be done without the sanction of Parliament. He hoped the House would be content with his assurance that during the Recess he should give further consider There was in the ation to the subject. Vote they were about to pass a sum of £5,000, being the second instalment of £10,000 for the Engineers; did the hon. Gentleman wish that that £5,000 should not be expended as was intended. MR. CHILDERS: That is distinctly my wish. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, he had no objection to accept the suggestion. COLONEL JERVIS said, he did not think the right hon. Baronet understood the subject. This £5,000 was part of £10,000 which should have been voted last year for the Engineers. MR. PACK-BERESFORD trusted that the Committee would not consent to withdraw this £5,000. CAPTAIN ARCHDALL complained of the consolidation of barrack districts, thereby imposing additional duties on barrack masters for which they were inadequately paid. Question put, and agreed to. Resolution to be reported To.morrow, at Two of the o'clock. IRELAND-CASE OF MICHAEL O'HANLON.-QUESTION. SIR JOHN GRAY said, he wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Is it the fact that Michael O'Hanlon, formerly a resident in Belfast, and who has a wife and four children totally dependent for their support on his earnings as a working gardener, had been nearly eighteen months in prison; and, if so, if any reason can be assigned for not bringing him to trial or admiting him to bail? THE EARL OF MAYO said, that an Order for the discharge of Michael O'Hanlon was made out on the 8th of this month, and he had heard that morning that he had been discharged under that Order. NATURALIZATION AND EXPATRIATION. QUESTION. MR. W. E. FORSTER said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether there has been any recent Correspondence between Her Majesty's Government and the Government of the United States on the question of naturalization and expatriation; and, if so, whether he is willing to lay such Correspondence upon the Table of the House? LORD STANLEY: Sir, the House will probably have seen in some English newspapers the Despatch from the United States' Government upon this subject, to which the Question of the hon. Member refers. That Despatch was placed in my hands a few days ago, and it appears to have been made public in America previous to its reaching this country. Before it came into my hands, I had written to the British Minister at Washington upon the subject-a Despatch which must have crossed that of Mr. Seward on its way to this country. In that Despatch I explained the views of Her Majesty's Government upon the question of naturalization as it now stands. In answer to the hon. Member's Question, I may say that I have no objection to lay that Despatch, as well as that of Mr. Seward, upon the table. I may also repeat what I have already stated in answer to a Question put to me in this House, that Her Majesty's Government are quite prepared to accept in principle the views of the naturalization question for which the United States' Government contend, and therefore I do not apprehend that any misunderstanding can arise out of it. We have declined, however, to enter into any treaty upon the subject just at present, for two reasonsfirstly, because some legal details have to be arranged, and are now being considered by the Commission appointed for that purpose; and next because, even if we were to act irrespectively of the Report of that Commission, such a treaty would be perfectly useless until an Act of Parliament is passed to bring it into operation. I need not say that in the state of Business-not only as it is now but as it has been for the past month-it would have been useless to attempt to bring in so large and important a measure. If it should be my fortune to have any share in the Government next year, I shall be ready to introduce a Bill upon the subject in the new Parliament. METROPOLIS-NEW COURTS OF JUS TICE. QUESTION. MR. ALDERMAN LAWRENCE said, he wished to ask the First Commissioner of Works, Whether notices will be served during the autumn on the owners of houses in Ilolywell Street, and also on the owners of houses in the line of a new street from the Strand to Lincoln's Inn Fields, on the west side of proposed New Law Courts, in order that a Bill may be brought VOL. CXCIII. [THIRD SERIES.] in, during the next Session of Parliament, to provide approaches to the site of the New Courts of Justice by the removal of Holywell Street and the formation of a new street from the Strand to Lincoln's Inn Fields? LORD JOHN MANNERS said, in reply, that the Royal Commissioners did not recommend the removal of the property referred to by the hon. Member for the approaches to the New Law Courts. And, however desirable it might be that these houses should be removed for metropolitan improvements, Her Majesty's Government had no intention of giving the notices with a view of bringing in a Bill for the purchase of the property next year. IRELAND FENIAN PRISONERS, WARREN AND MR. J. STUART MILL said, he wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, If Her Majesty's Government will take into favourable consideration the question whether the time is arrived when the very heavy sentences passed on Warren and Costello, the only two persons of the crew of the Jackmell who have not been released, may be remitted or mitigated? THE EARL OF MAYO, in reply, said, he was glad the hon. Member put the Question, because considerable misapprehension seemed to exist upon the subject. The two prisoners referred to were convicted for coming to Ireland in an armed vessel, and cruizing along the coast in order to raise an armed insurrection against the Queen. The only evidence given against them of their proceedings in the United States of America-was that they were members of the Fenian Brotherhood previous to the 5th of March, 1867, the date of overt acts connected with the rising in which their brother conspirators were engaged. That evidence was necessary to connect them with the Fenian society, and in accordance with the terms of the Treason Felony Act that brought them within the jurisdiction of this country, so that in reality their case did not differ in any considerable degree from those of the great mass of the Fenian prisoners tried and convicted in Ireland. He was afraid the time was hardly yet come when it would be possible to enter into anything like a general consideration of the sentences passed upon the Fenian prisoners with a view either to a commutation or a remission 2 T |