the greatest possible evil for Ireland if you about spoliation of the Church. But we were to destroy the Established Church. have not heard of the alienation by the If you were to ask me what I would do in Protestant Bishops of so much of the a political sense for Ireland I would implore landed property of the Church for the you to leave her alone. If you would ask benefit of their relations, until the abuse me what I would have you do to satisfy was checked some years ago by an Act her people, I would say develop her re- of Parliament, which made it illegal for sources, extend her railways, make her Bishops to let see lands at a lower rent than great harbours available to the shipping two-thirds of their market value. Every of the world. That will secure peace, which Bishop, on appointment, refused the realone will enable capital to be introduced newal fines; and when from this procedure into the country. We are told that the the existing leases expired at the end of people of Ireland are disaffected and dis- twenty-one years, he then let the lands at loyal. Was that found to be so when the a merely nominal rent to some member of Prince of Wales visited Dublin? I do not of his own family. Instances of this alienaspeak now of the reception he met with tion have been frequent in most of the Irish within the ancient walls of St. Patrick, dioceses. For instance there was a probut of the reception which greeted him perty worth £8,000 a year sold in the from the people themselves in the streets county of Meath, which had been be of Dublin and the racecourse of Punches- queathed by a Bishop of that diocese (Dr. town. My solemn belief is that if his Dopping) to his descendants; and I believe Royal Highness were to visit Ireland that a great proportion of that property, again, be it in the South, West, or North, like many others of a similar class, conhis reception would be equally enthusias-sisted of Church lands, which, being contic, and if he were to visit the beautiful scenery of Killarney the mountains would be made to echo with the cordial cheers of a loyal people. My Lords, I would implore you to reject this Suspensory Bill. It is ruinous, mischievous, and would make Ireland miserable. I pray you, by the martyred blood of the Reformers, by the memory of your ancestors, who gained the glorious revolution of 1688, by the present peace and the future prosperity of Ireland, to reject the Bill. I would remind those who are about to appeal to the country of the oft-repeated but true lines

"Facilis descensus Averni;

Sed revocare gradum superasque evadere ad auras,

Hic labor, hoc opus est."

THE EARL OF GRANARD: My Lords, as one of the Peers who signed the declaration of the Roman Catholic laity in favour of religious equality I have some right to be heard upon this question. That declaration was a disclaimer of the statements so offensively reiterated that in Ireland there was a feeling of apathy upon this subject. That declaration was signed by the Irish Roman Catholic Peers, by all Roman Catholic Members of the House of Commons except two, and by the most eminent members of the professional and commercial classes in Ireland; and such a declaration must be looked upon as representing the opinion of the Roman Catholic laity of Ireland. In the course of this debate we have heard a good deal

verted into perpetuities, are now lost to
the Church and the State for ever-un-
less, indeed, the consciences of the present
possessors are smitten by their own argu-
ment, and they restore the property. It
certainly is remarkable that the persons
most vehement against the spoliation of
the Irish Church should be those who
profited in a great degree by a similar line
of conduct. My Lords, if you throw out
this Bill, in what spirit will the great ma-
jority of the Irish people approach the
hustings next November? With feelings
of the greatest irritation-feelings, indeed,
almost of despair at ever obtaining redress
from the Imperial Parliament for the
grievances from which they have so long
suffered. Then there will be the smoulder-
ing embers of Fenianism. I do not know
that Fenianism has much to do with this
subject; but a passage from Mr. Maguire's
book may be usefully remembered by your
Lordships, in which it is stated that the
Fenians in America would greatly deplore
to see the grievances of Ireland redressed,
because in that case their occupation would
be gone. Lord Cornwallis described what
occurred in the days of Protestant as-
cendancy, and the sort of conversation
which was held at his table about the
hanging, and shooting, and burning that
went on.
He says-

the country all tends to encourage this system of
"The conversation of the principal persons of
blood; and the conversation at my table, where
you will suppose I do all I can to prevent it, al-

ways turns on hanging, shooting, burning; and if a priest has been put to death, the greatest joy is expressed by the whole company. So much for Ireland and my wretched situation."

past, and the future of Ireland can never be one of contentment and of peace so long as the Established Church lasts; there will be neither peace nor prosperity

In another he writes of the principal per- in that country so long as the laws are sons of the country-

"The words Papists and Priests are for ever in their mouths; and by their unaccountable policy they would drive four-fifths of the community into irreconcilable rebellion."

not administered equally for the benefit of the whole people.

selected as the battle-field for the conflict

THE EARL OF CLANCARTY: My Lords, I am very sorry to interpose beSuch were the feelings of the ascendancy tween your Lordships and the noble Earl party in the days of Lord Cornwallis. And who has just given way (Earl Russell); that this spirit is still rife in Ireland I but connected as I am by birth, by prothink the language held at recent meet-perty, and by every tie of sympathy and ings of that party sufficiently proves. At a affection, with Ireland, so often, as now, meeting held in the holy city of Orangeism, of parties in Parliament, I am anxious to -its Mecca Enniskillen, presided over by the rector, resolutions were passed that, address to your Lordships a few words, if necessary, the Protestants would shed and they shall be very few, arising out of their blood as their ancestors had done; and one rev. gentleman, referring to the Coronation Oath, reminded the meeting that an English monarch had lost his crown at the Boyne, and warned Her Majesty of what would happen if she broke her Oath. I will now quote from one of their lyrics, popularly ascribed to an ecclesiastic of the Province of Armagh; it is to the tune of "Lisnaglad," a well-known party tune

"Woe worth the day that Erin's Isle
To a Popish King did bow;
And Protestants, without a cause,
Were hanged to feed the crow.
Then Pope and Priest our pockets fleeced,
And Protestant blood did flow.

"They took our Churches from us,

And in them mumbled Mass ;
They cramped our feet in wooden shoes,
And our money they made of brass.
They wanted us to cross ourselves,
And learn their Popish tricks;
To scrape and nod to a wafer God,
And worship the Crucifix."

this debate.

Although I shall give my vote with the noble Earl who has moved to defer the second reading of the Bill, I do not concur with him in the view he has taken of the Protestant Church in Ireland as an injustice or offence to my Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen. As a constant resident in Ireland, I am enabled with confidence to affirm that the Roman Catholics in general entertain no unfriendly feelings towards the Protestant Establishment. It is undoubtedly denounced, and in no measured terms, by the Romish hierarchy, who before the Emancipation Act professed such different views regarding it, but who now see no occasion to make such profession. By their influence the signatures of many of the Roman Catholic laity were procured to that declaration against the Established Church to which the noble Earl who spoke last alluded as having been signed by himself; but I am credibly informed that in the county of Galway, one of the largest counties in Is this the language of the mild and tole- Ireland, and in which are very many and rant almoners of the gentlemen who live most respectable Roman Catholic landamong us as civilizers, while the rest of owners, only two of them would sign it, the nation, as the right rev. Prelate would others having refused to do so, and that, have us believe, is a nation of assassins? too, in a county where a great missionary ["No, no!"] The assertion that the work has been and is in active progress. removal of such persons would be a great My Lords, as an Irishman I protest against injury to Ireland is almost as ridiculous the wrong done to my country in stirring as that if the Protestant Church were up religious dissensions and making her disestablished the Protestants of Belfast would leave that place in a body. I must say that I regret that all the past history of Ireland cannot be buried in oblivion. But there can be no tabula rasa-these sad recollections affect the Ireland of to-day, and therefore we must deal with this question. Depend upon it the Irish people will never forget the

highest interests the sport of party. Ireland is often reproached for her backwardness in civilization and general improvement, and with being a disunited nation; but nothing so much tends to impede her improvement, nothing has operated so much to produce disunion and to stir up sectarian animosities among the Irish people, as the wanton and ignorant med[Third Night.

I 2

"I have not lived so long in Ireland without having learned to appreciate the signal virtues of the Irish clergy, more especially of the working clergy. I know there are exceptions, but still the conduct of the Protestant clergy of Ireland, as a body, is most exemplary. To the extent of their means they are very charitable. They are not distrusted by their Catholic neighbours, and their removal from the parishes in which they labour would give cause for much regret."

to have forgotten the strong but probably | Liberal promoters of the Bill appear to unconsidered expressions he had used; and, have overlooked a rather remarkable fact prompted by his honest recollection of the connected with it-namely, that it contrue character of that Church he had so tains similar provision for the suppression condemned, he gave utterance to the fol- of Maynooth College as for the suppression lowing just eulogy of its ministry, which of the Church Establishment: that this I have copied from the report of The act of justice to Roman Catholics of 1868 Times :cancels that act of justice and conciliation to the same body that was voted by such large Parliamentary majorities in 1845. Can this have been mere accident, or have the friends of Maynooth discovered that the endowment of that College was not an act of justice, and, though announced by Sir Robert Peel as a message of peace, has not conduced to that end? If so, I would suggest to noble Lords opA stronger denial than this there could not posite to pause and consider well, before be of his own statement in the beginning they proceed further with their attack of his speech, that the Protestant Churchupon the Protestant Establishment, whe"Is a constant source of grievance to millions ther they may not be doing, instead of an of your fellow-subjects whom it is our interest to act of justice to the Roman Catholics of conciliate, and whom we have no right to offend." Ireland, an act of dire wrong to the whole The noble Earl's predilections were, how country, by destroying what, to the Irish ever, more towards the Roman Catholics no less than to the English people, is the than Protestants. He was accordingly surest bulwark of our national liberties-among the supporters of the Maynooth Protestantism in Church and State. But the Bill, and as there is some analogy between promoters of this Bill appear to have over the proposal of the present measure and looked also another of its provisions of a like the introduction of the Bill for the estab- character-I mean the arrangement for lishment of Maynooth College, I would the withdrawal of the Regium Donum from beg to call your Lordships' attention to it. the Presbyterians; that, in fact, this Upon that occasion the country had been measure of so-called justice and liberality much disturbed by the agitation for the is simply a Bill for the total disendowment Repeal of the Union, and the monster of all religious denominations in Ireland, meetings held in furtherance of that move- and of confiscation to the Imperial Treament became exhibitions of physical force sury, not only of all that was chargeable imperilling the public peace, and manifestly upon the revenue of the country, but of designed to overawe the Government. Sir the property of the Church, deemed from Robert Peel resolved to put them down, time immemorial to have been consecrated and succeeded; and, having vindicated the to the purposes of religion. I do not think law, he announced, and had immediate the interests of religion should be trifled recourse to, a policy of conciliation. This with. Demands upon the Church funds are was shown in measures for the advance- daily increasing, for carrying on the minisment of Roman Catholic ecclesiastical trations of religion. I hold in my hand interests, but chiefly in the permanent notice of a meeting of the West Conendowment of Maynooth College, and its naught Church Endowment Society, for establishment as a Royal Institution. We the 4th of next month, to make arrangenow have the Fenian conspiracy nearly if ment for the endowment of three addinot quite put down by the strong arm of tional churches. The practice has been the law. Though a movement essentially for the subscribers to the endowment of American, it has been imputed to Ireland, a parish or district church to make permato the Irish Roman Catholics, and therefore, as after the Repeal movement, it seems in the view of noble Lords opposite to have entitled them to the inauguration anew of a policy of conciliation-a new concession to the Roman Catholic hierarchy, in the overthrow of the Protestant Establishment. But the noble Earl and the

nent provision for a salary of £75 a year to the incumbent, and the Church Commissioners, in that case, have augmented the salary to £100. Already in West Connaught, nine churches have been thus endowed, three are now to be added, and there will still remain seven in which congregations have been formed to be simi[Third Night

larly provided for. If you pass this Bill, all this must be put a stop to. What is there to justify you in arresting the progress of truth the spread of the Reformed Faith among the poor of Ireland? I trust your Lordships will, by a large majority, condemn such a proceeding, and that the encroachments made upon the principles of our Protestant Constitution may be henceforth withstood. Religion is not a thing that a nation should disregard. I will conclude my address with the words of Mr. Gladstone, taken from his celebrated book on Church and State, as no words could more forcibly enjoin the duty of the State to uphold the Church

"The time is now arrived when, with a view, if to no higher end, yet to decency and dignity of conduct, an answer should, if possible, be had to the question, whether it be or be not the manifest ordinance of Almighty God, that Governments have active duties towards religion Governments to the Christian Church. As was