Senator CAPPER. Is not that true also in the country, in the rural boxes?

General HORTON. Yes; but there is a different law, as I understood the lawyer for the Post Office Department.

Senator CAPPER. The only thing is, the Government went only a part of the way when it made this law as to the rural boxes. Now, it is proposed to extend the same law to cover the city mail boxes. I do not see hardly where the line can be drawn there.

General HORTON. Our point of view is that these boxes in the city, where these bills are delivered, are in the houses. Bills are placed under the door or in the mail box, as the Congressman has just explained; or in apartment houses they can hand them to the telephone operator. That is the way it is mostly done. Now, we feel that is a different proposition from putting them in a rural box, that is established in accordance with the act that has just been read to us, in which the Postmaster General has certain general discretionary authority.

Representative KELLY. Is not the situation this: That the Washington Gas Light Co., a public utility, is getting the benefit of the great Postal Service; that it is getting the benefit that we throw around it, and it is also protected by special law, which guarantees its income. When it finds a chance to avoid putting into the Postal Service a few thousand dollars, it demands the right to do it; and if everybody else demanded the same right, we would simply break the Postal Service.

Mr. ENNIS. We are not demanding any right in any way; we simply wish to point out that this increased expense will be borne by the consumers. We have been allowed to earn a fair return on the property, and we are attempting to hold our expenses down to the lowest possible figure; as any increased expense is generally passed on to the consumer, we attempt to curtail our expenses as much as possible.

Senator CAPPER. The Post Office Department is losing money every day, so they tell us. Are not they justified in looking for further

revenues?

Mr. ENNIS. That is true.

Representative MEAD. Senator, if you will permit, our committee feels that the Postal Service is a monopoly of the United States Government, and we are just as jealous of our monopoly as the gas company and the electric-light company are jealous of theirs, are jealous of their monopolies; and if we delivered gas by tanks, or some other way, they would be justified in objecting to it, and we feel, in view of the protection that we give them, they ought not to violate a monopoly which is rightfully ours.

Therefore, we ask them as good citizens to deliver their mail through the Post Office Department.

Senator BANKHEAD. Anything else, Mr. Chairman, to be taken up? Senator CAPPER. Yes, there is; but I do not think they will take much time, Senator.

Now, if there is no one else to be heard, we would like to finish this hearing as soon as we can, but we do not want to shut anybody off, if there is anything else to be brought out.

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STATEMENT OF S. R. BOWEN, REPRESENTING THE POTOMAC ELECTRIC POWER CO.

Mr. BOWEN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, we do not want to put ourselves in the attitude of being opposed to the Post Office Department trying to raise more revenue, but the electric light company does not feel that anything they have done in the way of saving expenses has been done with the view of willfully avoiding the payment of any lawful postage.

As has been said here, it is our duty to operate as efficiently and economically as possible; because, in the last analysis, our rate here has to pay the cost of the service.

If this committee feels that it can legally pass legislation of this kind, and they do it, of course we are going to comply with the law; but it does affect the practices of the companies, and what is being done in Washington is being repeated all through the country; and, of course, these utilities already have to pay heavy taxes, and may be called on to pay other taxes.

I was just wondering whether you wanted to view it from that standpoint or not. The Government undoubtedly may increase the rate of postage. So, I would like, with that attitude on expense, to show just how it would affect the lighting company.

Mr. Brooks, would you briefly state that?

STATEMENT OF H. A. BROOKS, REPRESENTING THE POTOMAC ELECTRIC POWER CO.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Chairman, at the present time we deliver approximately one and three-quarter million bills a year, and approximately 50 per cent of those are delivered by hand and the other 50 per cent by mail.

As indicative of the effect that this legislation would have on our expense, the 50 per cent that we deliver by hand costs the company approximately $5,500 a year; and the other half of the bills, delivered through the mails, costs the company $24,000 a year.

Of course, that is not all postage, because part of it is the expense of handling the mail, which is inevitable, of course, before it goes into the post office.

Now, that $24,000 is based on the 2-cent postage. Of course, if we had to pay 3 cents, it would be increased to some $33,000 a year more. So there is a difference there, gentlemen, ranging anywhere from $20,000 to $30,000 a year, depending on the rate of postage, that would have to be borne as a burden by the consumers.

Now, we do not believe that our customers would derive any benefit from that practice. Our company does more than just try to economize. We do not wish to cut down the expense at the expense of the quality of the service that we render. We are willing to increase the expenses if the service can be bettered, but we do not believe that this method of delivering the bills is anything but satisfactory to the public, and our method of deriving that conclusion is, of course, based on the fact that we do not have any complaints.

To hand deliver the bills, they must be put in letter boxes. Putting them under the doors or ringing the doorbells would not be satisfactory. So that, in effect, this legislation, if enacted, would prohibit

us from the hand delivery of these bills, and there is not any other alternative for us to consider; and if the bill is passed, we must mail all of our bills.

We considered that, as I say, as an economy we have effected, without affecting the quality of the service, which is a part of our bounden duty.

That has been shown up in the results of our operations, our low rate, the frequent rate reductions; and we believe that it should not be necessary for us to put this additional burden on the consumer, for which the consumer would derive no benefit.

That is the statement that I wish to make.

Senator CAPPER. Anyone else?

STATEMENT OF W. N. FREEMAN, REPRESENTING SHOPPING NEWS MANAGERS' ASSOCIATION

Mr. FREEMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am representing the Shopping News Managers' Association, comprised of 11 organizations which belong to the Shoppers News Managers' Association, delivering between 4,000,000 and 5,000,000 advertising papers each week; that is, in 11 different cities.

In some cities, special requests have been made that the Shopping News be delivered to the homes in the clip on the mail box, and I was wondering, if this law would apply to that clip, which is on the usual mail box at residences?

Senator CAPPER. Representative Mead, can you express an opinion on that?

Representative MEAD. It occurs to me it would.

Mr. FREEMAN. It would be impossible to make delivery of Shopping News by mail, because it is not given preferential handling. Delivery is often several days late when sent by mail, the paper being delivered after the advertised articles have been taken off sale. In places, the owners of homes have asked that the paper be put in their clips, to save them from being blown around, or otherwise litter up the porch, or wherever it is delivered. I think we are much more careful in delivery than the usual newspaper. Its papers are usually thrown from the sidewalk to the door of the subscriber. The Shopping News is either delivered in the mail clip, or otherwise securely placed.

This law would be a very great hardship in some cities, where the home owners have asked for that particular method of service. Senator CAPPER. You can not deliver your papers over the rural . route then?

Mr. FREEMAN. We have no rural-route deliveries. I think, out of the 138,000 circulation in Washington, about 400 go in the mails, and probably 200 go to the rural routes, and we have a great deal of difficulty in getting the 24-hour service through the mails even within a radius of 10 miles.

Senator CAPPER. Anyone else now? If not, we will conclude the hearing, and the committee will have the testimony printed.

This subcommittee, of course, can only make a report to the full committee, and it will be for the full committee to report to the Senate.

I shall place in the record a memorandum on behalf of the American Gas Association and several communications that have come to the committee.

Hon. JAMES M. MEAD,

CHICAGO, March 29, 1932.

Chairman Post Office and Post Roads Committee,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. DEAR CONGRESSMAN MEAD: We approve the passage of H. R. 9262 to curb the practice of depositing matter in letter boxes without payment of postage. On February 3, 1932, we wrote the Postmaster General as follows: "Reports have come to us from various sections of the United States indicating that there has been an alarming increase in the amount of printed matter that is being distributed door to door-stuffed into private mail boxes of apartment buildings and residential homes.

"Handbills and cheap printed matter stuffed into the home owners' mail boxes have a very depreciating effect on regularly addressed third-class advertising matter that the home owner or resident finds in his mail box.

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The question arises, is the mail box the private property of the individual home owner? Do post-office regulations give any protection to the home owner in establishing the mail box as a privileged receptacle for United States mail, even though it is on private property?

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There is every reason why the department should become interested in this question.

"In the first place it is taking away from the Post Office a great amount of revenue in reduced sales of postage stamps, which the advertiser would use if he did not employ the free use of the mail box for stuffing in his handbills and literature.

"It is a matter in which the entire postal force of the United States would undoubtedly cooperate if such a movement were started to try to have it corrected, because the reduction of mail means less work for post-office employees as well as less revenue.

"I have talked with a number of the postmasters in the suburban towns around Chicago and they all seem to be greatly concerned about the matter and tell me that this door-to-door distribution is not only a nuisance and an objec tion on the part of many householders, but that it is making serious inroads into postal revenue in their district.

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Reports from other cities reveal a like situation.

"My interest in the matter is that it cheapens the contents of the mail box to such an extent that the pulling power of legitimate addressed and stamped third-clas advertising matter is suffering seriously."

May I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that you place this testimony before your committee, with the recommendation that prompt action be taken to report this bill out of committee and have it passed and enacted as a law?

The Post Office Department needs this regulatory measure in every city of the country.

Respectfully yours,

Hon. ARTHUR CAPPER,

Senate Office Building:

HOMER BUCKLEY, President Buckley, Dement & Co.

ST. PAUL, MINN., May 11, 1932.

We are of the opinion that the right of merchants to place statements of accounts and circulars in or on private letter boxes should not be curtailed or restricted, but believe that catalogues, books, and booklets advertising merchandise for mail-order handling should be denied this privilege if possible. Kindly accept this as our expression on H. R. 9262 in your hearing on same. C. H. JANSSEN,

Secretary-Manager National Association of Retail Grocers.

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF RETAIL CLOTHIERS AND FURNISHERS,
Chicago, March 28, 1932.

Senator TASKER L. ODDIE,

Washington, D. C.

DEAR SIR: I address this letter to you as chairman of the Senate Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads to protest most earnestly, in the name of the

thousands of retail clothiers and furnishers of this country, against bill H. R. 9262 which would make it a criminal offense to deposit bills, folders, or circulars in mail receptacles unless postage stamps have been affixed.

This bill would work a tremendous hardship upon thousands of small merchants whose only means of advertising is the inexpensive handbill or circular. Indeed, we are confident that the passage of this bill would not only work a hardship upon the merchants because they would be unable to advertise, but would seriously impair the amount of printing done in this country.

Deprived of the opportunity to do advertising through this method, the merchants would have to desist from advertising efforts and the money-thousands of dollars-spent on circulars and handbills would cease to circulate.

It appears to us that this bill is invasion of the rights of business and industry, preventing the most economic conduct of business affairs.

We would appreciate your consideration of these facts.

Cordially yours,

ALLEN SINSHEIMER, Executive Director.

Hon. TASKER L. ODDIE,

BROOKLYN UNION GAS CO., Brooklyn, N. Y., March 23, 1932.

Chairman Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads,

United States Senate, Washington, D. C.

DEAR SIR: We understand that H. R. 9262, which is an act to amend section 198 of the act entitled "An act to codify, revise, and amend the penal laws of the United States" and which prohibits among other things the depositing of any mailable matter such as statements of account, circulars, sale bills, or other like matter on which no postage has been paid, in any letter box" has been referred to your committee.

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This company supplies gas in the boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens, city of New York, and has over 700,000 consumers. Bills are rendered monthly and generally delivered by our collectors direct to the consumers. In cases where the consumer is not at home the collector leaves the bill in the letter box. The provisions of this bill would seemingly prohibit that procedure, and should we be required to mail all such bills, would not only entail considerable extra expense to the company, but would necessitate the discharge of collectors and further aggravate the unemployment situation.

We trust your committee will amend the bill to avoid this possibility.

Very truly yours,

A. F. STANDIFORD, Vice President.

NEW ENGLAND GAS ASSOCIATION,

Boston, Mass., March 23, 1932.

Hon. TASKER L. ODDIE,

Chairman Senate Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads,

Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C. SIR: Our attention attention has been brought to H. R. 9262, the purpose of which is to prohibit the practice of depositing statements of account, circulars, sale bills, etc., in letter boxes and other receptacles established for the receipt or delivery of mail without payment of postage thereon.

It is the concensus of opinion of the president and board of directors of the New England Gas Association, representing the manufactured gas utilities of New England and serving a million and a half customers, that this measure, while directed toward the praiseworthy object of increasing the revenue of the Post Office Department, would in effect work a hardship on property owners, would increase the cost of serving the public, and would tend to complicate the practice of delivery of gas bills and other matter, since it is now the practice among many gas companies to deliver such bills by meter readers, and would deprive the owners of mail-delivery boxes of the purpose for which such boxes were obtained.

We, therefore, desire to respectfully file a protest against the passage of this

measure.

Yours very truly,

C. D. WILLIAMS, Executive Secretary.