66

as established by the laws now in being; now in force, his majesty's Roman Cathothat they have disclaimed, disavowed, lic subjects, who form so great a propor"and solemly abjured any intention to tion of the population of Ireland, and con"subvert the present church establishment tribute so largely to the resources of the "for the purpose of substituting a catholic state, do yet labour under many incapa“establishment in its stead;" and that they cities, restraints, and privations, which have also solemnly sworn, "that they will affect them with peculiar severity in almost "not exercise any privilege, to which they every station of life; that more especially are or may become entitled, to disturb they are denied the capacity of sitting or or weaken the protestant religion or pro- voting in either of the honourable houses "testant government in Ireland." of parliament; the manifold evils conse"Your Petitioners most humbly begquent upon which incapacity they trust it leave to shew, that however painful it is to is unnecessary to unfold and enumerate to

their feelings, that it should still be thought this honourable house. -necessary to exact such tests from them "They are disabled from holding or ex(and from them alone of all his majesty's ercising (unless by a special dispensation) subjects), they can with perfect truth af-any corporate office whatsoever in the cifirm, that the political and moral princi-ties or towns in which they reside; they ples, which are thereby asserted, are not are incapacitated and disqualified from only conformable to their opinions, but holding or exercising the offices of sheriff's expressly inculcated by the religion which and sub-sheriffs, and various offices of they profess; and your Petitioners most trust, honour, and emolument in the state, humbly trust, that the religious doctrines, in his majesty's military and naval service, which permit such tests to be taken, will and in the administration of the laws, in be pronounced by this honourable house this their native land. to be entitled to a toleration, not merely "Your Petitioners, declining to enter partial, but complete, under the happy into the painful detail of the many incapaconstitution and government of this realm; cities and inconveniencies avowedly inand that his majesty's Roman Catholic sub-flicted by those statutes upon his majesty's jects, holding those principles, will be Roman Catholic subjects, beg leave, howconsidered as subjects upon whose fidelity ever, most earnestly to solicit the attention the state may repose the firmest reliance. of this hon. house, to the humiliating and ignominious system of exclusior, reproach, suspicion, which those statutes generate and keep alive.

through the benignity of their most gracious sovereign, they have been capacitated to enjoy, are nearly altogether frustrated, insomuch that they are, in effect, shut out from almost all the honours, dignities, and offices of trust and emolument in the state, from rank and distinction in his majesty's army and navy, and even from the lowest situations and franchises in the several cities and corporate townś throughout his majesty's dominions.

"Your Petitioners further most humbly shew, that 26 years have now elapsed since their most gracious sovereign and the honourable houses of parliament in Ireland, "For your Petitioners most humbly by their public and deliberate act, de-shew, that in consequence of the hostile clared, that," from the uniform peace- spirit thereby sanctioned, their hopes able behaviour of the Roman Catholics of of enjoying even the privileges, which, Ireland for a long series of years, it appeared reasonable and expedient to relax the disabilities and incapacities under which they laboured, and that it must tend not only to the cultivation and improvement of this kingdom, but to the prosperity and strength of all his majesty's dominions, that his majesty's subjects of all denominations should enjoy the blessings of a free constitution, and should be bound to each other by mutual interest and mutual affection;" a declaration founded upon unerring principles of justice and sound policy, which still remains to be carried into full effect (although your Petitioners are impressed with a belief, that the apprehensions which retarded its beneficial operation previous to the union cannot exist in the parliament of the united kingdom).

"For your Petitioners most humbly shew, that, by virtue of divers statutes

"And your petitioners severely feel; that this unqualified interdiction of those of their communion from all municipal stations, from the franchises of all guilds and corporations, and from the patronage and benefits annexed to those situations, is an evil not terminating in itself; for they beg leave to state, that, by giving an advantage over those of their communion to others, by whom such situations are ex

clusively possessed, it establishes a species restraints upon his majesty's prerogativeof qualified monopoly, universally ope- that they are hurtful and vexatious to the rating in their disfavour, contrary to the feelings of a loyal and generous people— spirit, and highly detrimental to the free-and that the total abolition of them will be dom of trade. found not only compitible with, but highly conducive to, the perfect security of every establishment, religious or political, now existing in this realm.

"Your Petitioners likewise severely feel, that his majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, in consequence of their exclusion from the offices of sheriffs and sub-sheriffs, and of the hostile spirit of those statutes, do not fully enjoy certain other inestimable privileges of the British constitution, which the law has most jealously maintained and secured to their fellow subjects.

"For your Petitioners most explicitly declare, that they do not seek or wish, in the remotest degree, to injure or encroach upon "the rights, privileges, immunities, possessions, or revenues appertaining to the bishops and clergy of the protestant "Your Petitioners most humbly beg religion, as by law established, or to the leave to solicit the attention of this hon. churches committed to their charge, or house to the distinction which has conceded to any of them "-the sole object of your the elective, and denies the representative petitioners being an equal participation, franchise to one and the same class of his upon equal terms with their fellow-subjects, his majesty's subjects; which detaches of the full benefits of the British laws and from property its proportion of political constitution. power under a constitution whose vital "Your Petitioners beg leave most humprinciple is the union of the one with the bly to observe, that although they might other; which closes every avenue of lega- well and justly insist upon the firm and unlized ambition against those who must be abated loyalty of his majesty's Roman presumed to have great credit and in- Catholic subjects to their most gracious fluence among the mass of the population sovereign, their profound respect for the of the country; which refuses to peers of legislature, and their dutiful submission to the realm all share in the legislative repre- the laws, yet they most especially rest sentation, either actual or virtual; and their humble claims and expectations of renders the liberal profession of the law to relief upon the clear and manifest conduRoman Catholics a mere object of pecu-civeness of the measure which they solicit niary traffic, despoiled of its hopes and of its honours.

to the general and permanent tranquillity, strength and happiness of the British empire. And your Petitioners, entertaining. no doubt of its final accomplishment, from its evident justice and utility, do most solemnly assure this hon. house, that their earnest solicitude for it, at this peculiar crisis, arises principally from their anxious desire to extinguish all motives to disunion, and all means of exciting discontent.

"Your Petitioners further most humbly shew, that the exclusion of so numerous and efficient a portion of his majesty's subjects as the Roman Catholics of this realm from civil honours and offices, and from advancement in his majesty's army and navy, actually impairs, in a very material degree, the most valuable resources of the British empire, by impeding his "For your Petitioners humbly state it majesty's general service, stifling the most as their decided opinion, that the enemies honourable and powerful incentives to of the British empire, who meditate the civil and military merit, and unnecessa- subjugation of Ireland, have no hope of rily restricting the exercise of that bright success, save in the disunion of its inprerogative of the crown, which encou-habitants; and therefore it is, that your rages good subjects to promote the public Petitioners are deeply anxious, at this mowelfare, and excites them to meritorious ment, that a measure should be accomactions, by a well regulated distribution of plished which will annihilate the principles public honours and rewards. of religious animosity, and animate all de"Your Petitioners beg leave most hum-scriptions of his majesty's subjects in an bly to submit, that those manifold incapa-enthusiastic defence of the best constitucities, restraints, and privations, are abso- tion that has ever yet been established. lutely repugnant to the liberal and com- "Your Petitioners, therefore, most prehensive principles recognized by their humbly presume to express their earnest, most gracious sovereign and the parlia-but respectful hope, that this hon. house will ment of Ireland: that they are impolitic in its wisdom and liberality, deem the se

veral statutes, now in force against them, and undermine the fortifications which had no longer necessary to be retained; and been raised for the protection of the church that his majesty's loyal and dutiful subjects, and state. He must use these words church professing the Roman Catholic religion, and state, because they presented an idea may be effectually relieved from the ope- to his mind, which he never could separate ration of those statutes, and that so they from that of the constitution of the country. may be restored to the full enjoyment of Having said thus much, he again expressed the benefits of the British constitution, his hope that the business would not be and to every inducement of attachment to suffered to lie over, but that it would be that constitution, equally and in common brought forward as speedily as possible. with their fellow subjects throughout the British empire. And your Petitioners will ever pray, &c. Signed Shrewsbury, Waterford, and Wexford; Fingal, Kenmare, Gormanstown, Southwell, Trimlestown, &c. &c."

Lord Grenville would not use one word of argument in support of the petition. He should only observe, that so far as it was in his power to expedite the business, it would be forwarded, and he was anxious that no unnecessary delay should take Lord Grenville again rose, and moved, place. He also assured their lordships, that it do lie on the table. He said, it was that when the subject was brought fornot his intention to make any other mo- ward, it should, as far as depended on tion at present, on a subject of so much him, receive a deliberate, calm, and disimportance; much deliberation was neces-passionate discussion. With regard to the sary previous to any notice being given of a motion for the consideration of the pe. tition. When it should be thought fit to submit that proposition to the house, he assured their lordships that ample notice would be given.

merits of the petition, he would say nothing now; that was what he wished to avoid at present, even if any thing could have induced him to offer any observaticns on a motion for laying this petition on the table.

Lord Auckland felt himself bound to say Lord Hawkesbury, after what had passed, a few words before the petition was laid could not permit the petition to be laid on on the table. He declared that the na- the table, without taking the opportunity ture of the petition, until this moment, had of saying a few words upon the motion. been perfectly unknown to him. He had, The right of petitioning he held to be so however, listened attentively to it while sacred a privilege, that nothing could exreading, and, from what caught his ear, it cuse their lordships from receiving petiappeared to him that the petitioners claim- tions from any description of his majesty's ed a full participation of all the rights and subjects. To this general proposition he privileges of the other subjects of his ma- knew only two exceptions: 1st, when the jesty. That was a claim which merited grievance complained of was one over the most serious consideration. If it were which their lordships had no jurisdiction, to be conceded, the consequence would be, and which they therefore could not redress. that their lordships would see a protestant 2d, when there was something disrespectking, in this country, maintaining the pro-ful in the form or language of the petition. testant religion here, while it was losing The present petition, however, came not its ascendency in Ireland. In Ireland, within either of these exceptions, and he their lordships would see the protestant therefore should not object to its being religion established by law, while the ma- laid on the table. He concurred with the gistrates and legislators of the country noble baron who had introduced the petiwould be Roman Catholics. He regretted tion, in deprecating all premature discusthat this subject had been brought forward,sion; but, if it was that noble baron's inbut since it had come under the notice of tention to bring the subject again before their lordships, he trusted that the question the House, he thought it but justice now would be fully investigated. Their lord- to declare, that if any motion should be ships could not now let the subject pass made for carrying into effect the prayer of over, but must feel it to be their duty to the petition, he should theu, but not till discuss it minutely, calmly, and dispassion- then, state his reasons for opposing any ately. He would give no opinion at pre-such measure. sent; but be must confess that he saw Lord Grenville said, he only rose, that nothing in the signs of the times that would it might be distinctly understood, that it induce him to break down the barriers, was his intention to bring forward the sub

ject of the petition and its prayer to the consideration of the house, and that with as little interval of delay as the circumstances of the case would admit.-The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.

farther proceeded in that house, and in that manner."

The Lord Chancellor did not then wish to offer any opinion as to the substance of his noble friend's motion, but he recommended that the consideration of such a The Duke of Norfolk rose, to move that proposition should be deferred for a few the Petition should be printed. He was days. On the first view of it, they should not aware whether such a motion was con- hesitate ere they agreed to put such a proformable to the custom and usage of the position to the judges, as containing points house; but when he considered the im-upon which he, for one, perhaps, could portance of the subject, and the variety have no doubt. He should, however, in of assertions made in the. Petition, all of the interval he meant to propose, pay a which it was indispensably necessary their lordships should thoroughly investigate, he wished, if there was no order against it, to press upon the attention of the House a motion for printing the petition. He at the same time regretted, that a noble lord, holding a high situation in his majesty's most intimate councils, should have pre-of which he deprecated the putting such maturely expressed an opinion inimical to the prayer of the petition.

most sedulous attention to the precedents, and to the records on the journals. It certainly required some deliberation, as possibly, by taking such a step precipitately, they might advance further in error. After considering the proposition in a variety of legal points of view, in the course

questions to the learned judges without further inquiry and deliberation; he moved, that the further consideration of the motion be adjourned till this day se'nnight.

The Lord Chancellor said, he believed it would be found, on the one hand, that there was no order against printing a petiLord Grenville did not mean to oppose tion, and that, on the other, there was no the amendment of the noble and learned example of any petition having been print- lord, but agreed in favour of a great deal ed. He thought that the importance of of what fell from the noble lord who openthe petition demanded that it should re-ed the discussion. He contended, that main on the table, for the examination of sooner than persist in error, they should, every one of their lordships, instead of if found necessary, tread back their steps; being sent out of the House to be printed. -The motion was negatived.

and he hoped, that no fear of imputed inconsistency would deter them from doing [CONDUCT OF JUDGE Fox.] Lord Auck- that which they should find to be right, land, agreeably to the notice he had given, He thought it would be proper to take brought forward some farther propositions the opinion of the judges on the occasion, in reference to the pending case of this who, it should be recollected, had, offimagistrate. After some general obser- cially, seats in that house. No objection vations, as to the peculiar importance of would be urged, he thought, to the noble the case, the necessity which existed for and learned lord's amending the language their lordships deciding upon it with the of the proposition, as he should deem proutmost caution and deliberation, with a per; and, after adverting to what he conview equally to the correctness of their ceived a difference in the line of argument own proceedings, as well as to the impor- then adopted by the learned lord, and tance of the case in the way of precedent, what he had urged on former occasions, aud, adverting to the circumstance of the observed, that he should not hesitate to proceedings in the committee being ad- follow that line of conduct adopted by lord journed till the beginning of May, against chancellor Clarendon, on an occasion which period their lordships might be fur-nearly similar, who resorted for informanished with the necessary information of advice upon the point, moved to the general effect, that "the case against Mr. Justice Fox, the charges alleged, and steps taken in consequence, be referred to the consideration of the judges for their opinion of the same; and whether the case, as it stood, could, consistently with the relevant acts and usage of parliament, be

tion and advice to that quarter, which the usage of that house, and the constitution, equally pointed out as the most eligible in such cases.

Lord Hawkesbury conceived, that the proceedings then before their lordships. were not upon an address to his majesty, for the removal of a judge; but the ques tion was, what proceedings should be had

t

previous to such an address? Those proceedings, so far as they had gone, he conceived, must be either substantially right, or formally wrongs and the very learned and elaborate argument of the noble baron (lord Grenville), and the several cases which he had cited in support of that argument, were by no means in point, but were quite distinct and separate from the question before their lordships... With great respect and deference to the noble baron, he considered it rather a quibble upon the question, than an argument grounded upon sound principles and the strict justice of the case. He contended, that the proceedings hitherto had been regularly and formally right. Their lordships could pursue no other course; he, therefore, thought the consideration of the question should be postponed for some days, in order to afford an opportunity of digesting the subject.

were so very competent to give their lordships the necessary assistance.

Lord Grenville then read the case of Bridgman against lord Chief Justice Holt, for the satisfaction of lord Ellenborough, which case his lordship had chiefly relied upon. The cause originated in the refusal of the Chief Justice to receive a bill of exceptions which had been tendered to him. The question for postponing the further consideration of the matter until this day se'nnight was then put, and carried.Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, March 25.

[MINUTES.] A message from the lords announced their lordships' assent to the Irish Customs bill, Excise bill, Stamp Duty bill, the Postage bill, the Malt and Spirits bill, the Sugar Drawback bill, the English Exchequer Bills bill, the English Sugar Drawback bill, the Promissory Notes bill, and the Expiring Laws bill, all without any amendment. Soon afterwards, the gentleman usher of the black rod appeared at the bar, and summoned the speaker and house to attend in the house of lords, to hear his majesty's assent given, by commission, to certain bills. The Speaker and members accordingly attended; and on his return he acquainted the house, that he had heard the royal assent given, by commission, to several public and pri

Lord Ellenborough conceived that the question before the house was, not whether their lordships were to address his majesty for the removal of one of the judges, but whether their lordships would take the opinion of the learned judges, as to the manner of their future proceedings? His lordship had no objection to his learned friend's wish to postpone the consideration of the question for some days, as in truth he thought it but right they should take time upon so important a proceeding; but the impression upon his mind was that, before any address should be pre-vate bills, among which were those above sented to his majesty, the question should enumerated, as also the Irish Warehousing be tried by a court of law, and Mr. jus- bills.A person from the Stamp-office tice Fox should be either found guilty, or presented an account of stamp duties and acquitted, of the charges laid against him, balances in the hands of the collectors at by the verdict of 12 honest, and upright this present period.-Mr. Bagwell, after nien. The regular proceedings should be obtaining leave to withdraw the Irish had upon that verdict, a writ of error Election bill which he had lately, brought should be brought, and the verdict either in, moved for leave to present one more affirmed or reversed; if the former, then perfect. Agreed to.-Mr. Fitzgerald mo the matter would come properly before ved for leave to bring in a bill for regutheir lordships. His lordship then went lating the Right of Common in Ireland, in into some observations of considerable the same manner as in England. Leave length, upon proceedings by impeachment, given. Mr. Fitzgerald, also moved, that which he considered would be the most there be laid before the house copies of the preferable mode. He expressed a strong patents under which the commissioners of desire that the opinion of the learned the treasury in Ireland held their offices, judges should be taken upon the question, at the time of making their returns, and It was by no means beneath the dignity of that house, or at all derogatory to their lordships' privileges, to take such an opinion. It was for such purposes the learned judges sat in that house, and he trusted their lordships would resort to them, who

the warrant or warrants issued for paying their salaries; also, a list of the several persons appointed commissioners of the treasury, and the funds out of which the several payments have been made. Or= dered