militia. The right hon. gent. had talked much about the delicacy of his feelings; but he seemed destitute of all sensibility; his military apostacy was only equalled by his ninisterial apostacy.-Here Mr. Yorke, to order, represented the impropriety of using such language. The Speaker informed the noble lord that he should abstain from personalities. the wish or disposition of the militia soldiers to volunteer in the regulars, or to part from the officers who now commanded them. His lordship concluded by saying that he spoke under the protection of that principle which sanctioned every man in advancing what he thought was the good of his country, and particularly at a time when its councils stood so much in need of uncommon integrity and equity. The Marquis of Douglas said, he bowed with great deference to the authority of Lord Stanley rose to make some remarks the chair. He then proceeded to state that on what had fallen from a former secretary the militia officers did not so much object to at war (Mr. Yorke), and on the inconsistthis measure, from feeling, as upon the con-ency of his conduct, in the part he had stitutional ground; that by proposing this taken in the present measure. He did measure to them, they would be defraud- not know how to reconcile the conduct of ing them into an acceptance of what they the right hon. gent. in approving of the had no reason to expect. He himself, present measure for the reduction of the though by no means divested of the feel-militia, after having himself introduced ings of a militia colonel, objected to it a bill for augmenting that constitutional principally from its doing injustice to the species of the national force. The noble proprietors and occupiers of the land, who lord defended himself, and those who opwould by this bill be obliged to pay a posed the present measure, from the obsecond bounty for substitutes. It was fal-servations of the right hon. gent. that if lacious to say, that all persons paid equal-what he called a broad-bottomed admily, and in proportion, for the army and nistration had been formed, those who navy. The members of the universities, voted against the present bill would have and many other descriptions, were ex-given their ready concurrence to the meaempted from the operation of the ballots. sure now proposed. He then entered at Part also of the pay of militia men was considerable length into a discussion of appropriated to the maintenance of their the consequences of this bill, which he families; but when they should enlist into characterized as unconstitutional and unthe regulars, the support of their wives and just. He said, it was an attempt to inchildren would fall upon the parishes. As crease the regular army, without ascera Scotchman, he said, he had to complain taining the expence. It seemed to be that the country was put to the expence of the object of the right hon. gent. to creproviding for 12,000 men; there were no ate a large force, without being much more than 6,000 left for its defence; and concerned about the means he made use none of the regulars stationed there, for of to accomplish it. their domestic protection. He heard a re- Lord Euston approved of the measure. port, that the noble lord (Moira) who had The principle was that of the bill for the the chief military command there, had gradual reduction of the militia. He was lately resigned it, finding that all those ex-one who thought that reduction necessary ertions of his which had gained him the when proposed last session by his right confidence, respect, aud veneration of all hon. friend (Mr. Pitt); for he felt then, parts and ranks in that country, were not and did still feel, that there were not sufficient to supply the military deficiencies, sufficient officers for the militia, as it He must also object to the measure upon stood at the increased number of 68,000. the ground of policy, when the alarm of He was a militia officer himself, and should invasion had not yet subsided. What do every thing in his power to forward chance had we of co-operating in any con- the objects of the measure before the tinental war, when we were destitute of a house. single ally? In his majesty's speech from The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed the throne, the word "ally" was not even that he had been anxious to hear the senmentioned, we only ventured to speak of timents of such gentlemen as chose to "confidential negociations" with foreign come forward on this occasion before he courts, but no effect was yet produced troubled the house with any remarks of his from it, nor did he hear of a single move-own. He was happy to have the concurment in our favour. He denied that it was rence of his noble friend who had just sat down, whose attachment to the militia was but with regard to the means by which the well known. This approbation removed object was to be attained. The right hon. part of the regret which he had felt, gent. had disapproved of one method, but because he was obliged to differ so mate- was that any reason why he should disaprially from many gentlemen connected prove of another? Yet this was the whole with the militia. The arguments which he inconsistency. It might as well be argued heard from the other side this night were that a right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Windmuch the same as those which had been ham) was inconsistent in opposing this urged on a former occasion, and therefore measure, though there the inconsistency he should not think it necessary to trouble was still stronger, for this measure actuthe house at any great length. One obser-ally adopted that very thing which was the vation he had heard with considerable sur-only one like a system thrown out in the prise, and that was, that no ground had course of his speech, on a former occasion, been laid for such a measure as this. The by that right hon. gent. namely, the regentlemen seemed to have forgot the whole duction of the militia. Then again, it was of the discussions that had taken place said that there was something unjust and during this session on the state of the unconstitutional in this bill. As to the Army. They said that he, and those who constitutional part of it, this objection had agreed with him, had asserted, that there been fully answered by the right hon. gent. was no want of any increase for the army. on the same bench with him (Mr. Yorke), He was in the hearing of the house, and and the only attempt at a reply to him, appealed to it whether such a thing had merely went to confirm his statement. But ever been said. It had been said, certainly, then it was said, that this interfered with a that there were sufficient reasons for con- pledge given by parliament, and that it tinuing the operations of the Defence bill was unjust to the officers of the militia, for some time longer, but it had never been who had raised a certain number of men asserted that its efficacy was so much to who were to be tied down on the debe depended upon, that nothing else would fence of the country. Now his answer be necessary. But while they thus per- to that was that this would have been verted what had been said on his side, a most extraordinary pledge if it ever had they seemed to have totally forgot what been given by parliament, which consistthey said themselves; and, notwithstand-ed in chaining down such a number of ing their clamours respecting the deficien- men, so that they could not be called upon cies of the army, they now wished to con- in any case of emergency. But the fact sider it as a conceded point, that no aug-was, that the act fixed the militia to the mentation was necessary. But if there was smaller number during peace, and only any thing on which all parties were fully empowered his majesty to call out the reagreed, it was that the army certainly did mainder in case of war. No pledge whatwant an augmentation; and the only dif- ever had been given on the subject, nor ference was, respecting the means which could it be given, so as to be binding in it would be proper to pursue for the pur- all circumstances. The object was, to pose of effecting that augmentation. But enable the surplus of the militia to form a then it was contended by a noble relation better defence to the country, by being of his (lord Temple) that a distinct object more disposable than if they had been conwas necessary before any measure of this fined to our own shores. The next objecsort could be justified. Could it be seri- tion was, the injustice done to the person ously asserted that it was necessary that an who procured a substitute. All that would expedition, like that to Holland, should happen by the extension of the service. be laid as the ground for this? The argu- would be, that the substitute would be ment was so extraordinary that it would enabled to render a more effectual service be wasting the time of the house to enter to the state. The country gained someupon it. Yet this alone, with the excep- thing by this; but where the loss to the tion of one, was the serious objection. individual was, he was utterly unable to That other one was the inconsistency that conceive. But then there must be a balappeared in the conduct of the right hon. lot for more. The only immediate effect gent. (Mr. Yorke) who with so much abi- would be, that the vacancies in the re lity, had spoke in favour of the measure. duced number must be immediately made What was this inconsistency? The diffe-up, and this certainly would not be so exrence was not with regard to the object, tensive as to come often upon the same persons who had already procured substi-ject so much in conformity with all the tutes. There was, on the contrary, an sentiments he had maintained, and so diadvantage in the reduction to the persons rectly in opposition to all those that had who were exposed to the ballot, because been supported by the right hon. gent. the casualties in 40,000 would be much who moved this measure, that it was not mose easily filled up than if the whole likely he should oppose him in it. The number of the militia had been kept on right hon. gent. was now employed in foot. Then as to the injury to be appre-taking down a part of the building which bended to discipline and subordination, it he had been so long employed in erecting. was not to be denied that every measure He applauded the workman and he apshould be taken to prevent such a mischief.plauded the work. It was a satisfaction The recruiting officers should be kept at to find that the right hon. gent. was so as great a distance as possible. He al- good-naturedly disposed to correct every lowed that while the measure was pending, thing erroneous he might have formerly the officers and men in the regular service established. Considering the length of would present temptations, but so far time the right hon. gent, had formerly been from countenancing such applicatious, noin power, considering he was now in powinstructions bad been sent to the regular er again, and that many wished him to regiments to invite the militia to volunteer. remain in power, it would be to be lanientOne application had been made for per-ed indeed if he adhered to every error he mission to hold out such invitations, but had fallen into. The right hon. gent. had it had been peremptorily refused. He completely relieved the house from that would venture to say further, that every apprehension, for a more formal, distinct, thing that could be done by the military and pointed recantation of his former prindepartment of his majesty's govt. to pre-ciples and practice could not possibly be vent the irregularities apprehended, would exhibited. It was certainly a departure be done. It was to be recollected, that if from his former system only in part, for four-fifths of the quota were ready at the with a happy variety, it contained in it time, no further demand was to be made; what, in the sporting language was called and that every thing had been done, and" a hedge," the effect of which was, that would be done, on his part, to render the there was a chance the right hon. gent. measure as palateable as possible. The would at all events win. Here the hon. particular provisions may be modified in gent. adverted to the extent to which the the committee; and the setting apart one militia system had been from time to time half for the foundation of the reduced re- carried. The English militia was increasgiment, was a security against deteriora-ed by the addition of the supplementary; tion. As to permitting the marines to re- then the Scotch militia was added, and cruit from this source, he doubted the pro-afterwards the Irish. The building was priety of it. As to the artillery, it was to elevated by heaping Pelion upon Ossa, be permitted to them. As to the guards, story on story, till it was impossible to go it was not determined, whether they further. The right hon. gent. was at that should; if they were, it should not be to time in the militia line, he afterwards any extent, and with a limit as to size; opened shop for the abolition of the ballot. but he doubted altogether, whether it He had, however, stuck to the old trade would be right to open this channel of re- till it failed; he kept close to the ballot cruiting to them. The measures taken till its death, and he cried out its last speech for the gradual augmentation of the regu-in the introduction of his parish bill-this dars, had not had all the effect that could parish beauty, in coarse russet clad, of be desired or that was expected from whom he was so violently enamoured. The thence, but they afforded a constant and ballot had not been given up till late. continued supply to a considerable amount. had been given up, however; it was found On this ground it was desirable for the that it increased the bounty, and that, by public to adopt the means of augmenta- its means, men were not to be had for tion now proposed, with a view to give general service. Then the right hon. gent. the utmost effect to any favourable circum-set out with a general declamation against stances that may arise. the ballot, which he at length found out Mr. Windham said, it was not to be sup-was very injurious to the service. The posed he had any objection to the increase abolition of the ballot was one step towards of the troops of the line. That was an ob that negative system, which he and his It hon. friends had recommended. When this to argue that no aid should ever be being asked for their plan, they said it taken from the militia to the line, but neconsisted merely in getting rid of all the ver without great emergency.Another impediments that checked the simple re-objection was much more extensive, and cruiting. To remove an evil was cer- was founded on a remark which he had fortainly the first step towards effecting good; merly made, that measures ought to be but the right hon. gent.'s change had adopted wholly and not partially, as in the not this effect. Two negatives, it was said, present instance, because the success often made an affirmative; but the right hon. depended on the union of the several parts. gent.'s second proceeding was but a further In the plan which he had formerly prodeparture from his former principles and posed, the right hon. gent, seemed to have practice. His parish bill went to abolish forgot that he had included service for a the ballot, or at least to remove it to a limited term of years, and the improve considerable distance. But if that took it ment of the condition of the soldiers. If away, this measure gave it back. Because this were adopted, people would flock to the parish bill removed it to too great a the army like bees, as long as you had a distance, this brought it near, so as to ena-hive to receive them. He allowed that, ble him more easily to come at it. These if necessity required, he himself would be observations, he confessed, went more to ready to take stronger steps with respect the author of the measure, than to the to the militia than the present, and he measure itself; but though measures were considered the mitigations allowed by the to be judged of in themselves, yet a part right hon. gent. as the most convincing of their credit was connected with the per-proofs that the necessity of the measure sonal character of those from whom they was not felt.-He regarded these expeproceeded, and therefore what he had said dients so frequently varied, as the ruinous on this head was not improper nor irrele-resources of a spendthrift prodigal, who, to vant. The right hon. gent. had argued, supply the want of the moment, cuts down that he and those who were of opinion the young timber of his estate, which in a with him that the regular force was too little time would be double its present value. small, and the militia too large, ought to Those ministers who had reproached their support this measure. Certainly, it would predecessors with inefficiency, had found not be inconsistent in them to support it, that they could not get through their own but they were not therefore necessarily to measures for six months. The shifts redo so. Though they argued that the mi- sorted to from day to day, by them, was litia should be reduced, and the regular an argument for the committee he had army augmented, they were not therefore had the honour on a late occasion to probound to approve all means whatsoever pose. He did not believe this measure proposed for carrying those objects into was in contemplation when the parish bill erfect. His objection to this measure, was, was introduced, which was a proof, that that it did not produce advantage to the the system of ministers was temporary regulars in proportion as it did injury to and unstable. Thus the parish bill, which the militia. The only difference was, that was to produce 27,000 men, of which the number of men transferred would be 9000 were to be allowed to go into the applied to a more advantageous service. regulars every year, and to be supplied He allowed the service was more advanta- again from the country, had produced geous; but it was not 'trained men that the about 2000, which was nearly the same army wanted, and he put it to the regular proportion a tailor bore to a man. Thus, officers, whether they would not prefer instead of the full grown man that had unexercised men to those disciplined mi- been promised, the country must now conlitia, who would never make good troops.tent itself with this miserable tailor's apHe did not say that the militia were not in prentice. The house was in fact reduced every respect equal to the regulars in train to subsist upon its votes, as a noble lord ing; in many instances they were accus-had very properly expressed it on a fortomed to equally severe discipline, but mer occasion. The house had voted the from the nature of the, service there was measure of last session, in the hope that always something hanging about a militia- it would produce recruits for the army to men which rendered him more untractable a great amount. The hope had failed. than was consistent with the well-being of Now this measure was called for with sithe regular service. He did not mean inmilar promises, and it was unknown what other equally infallible expedient was in army. It was a measure of such a nature reserve, if the promised hope should not that we could not long go on in it, bu be fulfilled. The measure now proposed should soon come to a total stop. Ou would be attended with great inconveni-military system should be so constructed ence, and the officers of the militia were that its parts would correspond with and averse to it. He took occasion to revert assist each other. The consequence of to the irritation with which his hints at doing this thing in this case was, that one the propriety of reducing the militia had part of the existing system acted in one been formerly received. He then admo-direction and another in the opposite. Then nished the friends of that system, that there was a sort of compromise, and such they had less to apprehend from those who a compromise was most ruinous to any openly attacked them, than from those thing like a general system. For all these who afforded them a treacherous defence. reasons, and for many others, which he (see vol. 3. p 606). There was a Spanish could adduce, he thought himself perfectly proverb, which said, "protect me from consistent in opposing this bill.-The quesmy friends, and I will guard myself against tion being called for, the house dividedmy enemies." This applied well to the For the second reading militia in the present instance. The right Against it hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Yorke) had argued forcibly in support of his own sentiment on this occasion, but he allowed he 148 Majority - 89 day.-Adjourned. HOUSE OF LORDS. Wednesday, March 27. spective stages; among these, the Additional Legacy Duty bill was read a second time, and committed for to-morrow; and the Committee on the bill to authorise the Oxford and Cambridge Colleges to purchase Advowsons, was postponed till Friday.-Adjourned. had but few of his brother officers of mili-and ordered to be committed on Thurstia with him. The question was not which opinion was right, but which opinion prevailed; not what they ought to feel, but what they do feel. When the right hon. gent. said, that 18 out of 32 militia colonels, who signed the resolutions against [MINUTES.] Counsel were heard rethis measure, were actuated by party prin- specting the Scotch Appeal, Andrew Blane, ciples of opposition to ministers, he surely writer to the signet, trustee for sir A. did not see the effect of this position; for Cathcart, of Carleton, bart. v. Archibald if so large a portion of the aristocracy of Earl of Cassilis, and others; viz. Mr. Rothe country, the rank, the landed proper-milly, as leading counsel for the appelty, and influence, were to be seized upon lant, at considerable length.-The bills a distinct question of this kind, to convey upon the table were forwarded in their retheir decided disapprobation of the ministers of the time, it was a pretty clear proof of the sense the best part of the country entertained of these ministers. The generality of the feeling, however, let what may be the cause of it, afforded no argument for the success of the measure. The country, notwithstanding the extraordinary success of all the measures recommended from the other side, was still extremely at a loss for a disposable force; this, with the expectation of possible circumstances in [MINUTES.] Mr. Curwen gave notice Europe to afford room for employing this that he should move to-morrow that an force, were the reasons for resorting to humble address be presented to his ma that which the govt. was pledged not to jesty, praying that he would be gracirecur to, except in cases of extreme neces-ously pleased to order copies of the Attorsity. The repetition of this measure wentney and Solicitor General's opinions rela➡ totally to change the militia from its origi- tive to the rights and claims of the Duke nal constitution, to destroy the principle of Athol in the Isle of Man, to be laid of connection, and thus to do a vast injury before the house.-Mr. Dickenson, conto the home service, without having any thing like a permanent good effect on the army. This measure could not be made a part of a general system for recruiting the HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, March 27. formably to an order of the house, presented the papers relating to Sir Home Popham; which were ordered to lie on the table.-Sir. J. Newport, according to |