No; it shall not be done for the future, says profit from the misappropriation of the pubMr. Trotter, and he bequeaths that to his lic money, it was remarkable that his offer successors which he never thought proper to was confined to the period in which Mr. enjoy himself. The act can never be vio- Douglas, who was now dead, was paymaster lated again ; I hope not; I hope the decision of the navy, but did not at all extend to the I of the house this night, will render it im- paymastership of Mr. Trotter. What was possible for the gent. who at present holds the conclusion then to be drawn from this? the situation of treasurer of the navy, or for Why, that he was ready to make oath as to any future treasurer, ever to violate it. But the paymastership of Douglas, because he if we do not come to this decision, what se- was dead, but did not think proper to swear curity have we, that some future Melvilles as to Trotter, because he was alive.--As to and Trotters will not break through 'any the letter which has been brought forward, new act we may pass, in the same way in and which, in my opinion, only aggravates which they have done the resolutions of this and confirms his guilt, we never heard any house in 1782, and the act of the 25th of thing of it, although his examination took his present majesty founded upon them. I place in Nov., until a few days previous to hope and trust, sir, that a large and virtuous the day appointed for his trial. It is said majority of this house will be found to put that lord Melville never saw it till it was in the seal and stamp of their reprobation upon print. Can any one believe it? Is it cresuch inonstrous and unblushing delinquency. dible that the noble lord never had the curioBut, say some gentlemen, the depositions sity to dispatch some confidential friend to are not evidence. That I deny. If an im- make an extract of that part of the report peachment were carried against my lord which he had good reason to suppose must Melville and his associate, these depositions refer to him? When, indeed, he finds the might be produced against them at the bar effect of it on the public mind, when he of the house of lords. Really, sir, I have finds that there is not a man, woman, or a strong repugnance to enter into all the dis- child, in every corner of the kingdom, in gusting particulars of the conduct of this whose mouth the tenth report is not to be person with whom I had once some slight found ; then, in order to do away the imconnection ; God knows, it was a connec- pression of it, he comes forward with his tion of hostility; but after what appears on letter. But what can he now gain by this the face of this report, I should be ashamed last shift of his ? Nothing at all. But if he of myself if I belonged to the same class of was suffered to avail himself of the delay he society with him. What is any honourable sought for, would not the country feel that man to think of a person, who either re- the house of commons favoured public fuses to answer a plain question, or who an- abuses, screened a great and criminal delin. swers it equivocally and under reservation ? quent, and that our navy, the greatness and • Did you derive any advantage from the use glory of the nation, was still possessed by of the public monies in the hands of your that very man? Then in what respect would Paymaster ?' • To the best of my recollec- the government be held in the eyes of the tion I never did.'-Now, the hon. gent.'s people, and of foreign nations, should this objection to this is, that the noble lord man, in a state of accusation and suspicion, should have occasion at all to mention his be suffered to hold his present high situation, recollection on the subject. He should have when the bravest and most honourable com een confident. There are some cases where manders in the army and navy are always a man may be allowed to speak as to his re- suspended from duty during an accusation of collection, while in others, to mention it is which the result might be an honourable acto betray him. If a man were asked whe- quittal. The impression on the public mind ther he was on a a particular night in a par- would now be, that lord Melville fled for ticular room with John a Noakes, it might protection to power and not to innocence, be very well to answer, that to the best of I hope and trust that this dreadful and dishis recollection he was not, but if he were gusting business, like all other evils, 'will proasked whether John a Noakes did not charge duce some good: that this day will be an him with an attempt to pick his pockets, æra for commencing an examination into all and kick him out of the room- —what would public abuses, and be the forerunner of such be the interence if he were to answer that reforms as shall prevent great mischiefs in Joha a Noakes did not, “ to the best of his the country. I hope the right hon. gent, recollection?” With respect to the noble will himself undertake this great work, and lordis otier to swear positively that he did not that the commissioners of naval inquiry, to a ز whom the country is so much indebted, will master of, to the arguments of gentlemen continue their laudable and salutary pursuits, who have opposed it, I must confess that it and bring every great delinquent to con- is impossible for me to leave the house this digni punishment. night without giving my vote in support of Lord Castlereagh opposed the motion, and the resolutions moved by the hon. gent. It insisted, that the very severe animadversions seems to me, that if I were willing to adwhich had fallen from the hon. gent, were mit all which the advocates of lord Melville not fully justified by the nature of the charges argue for, yet I am equally bound to vote against lord Melville. His lordship exhort for the original motion. If the house were ed the house not to forget what was due to to step out of its way to adjust all the shades an old and faithful servant of the public, of criminality which belong to this case, whose honour was dearer to him than his then, indeed, it might be necessary to take life. He expressed his sincere wish that some proceeding or other, similar to that the affair might be thoroughly sifted to the which has been recommended to us by my bottom by parliament; but he also wished, right hon. friend, the chancellor of the exthat the house would not be induced by chequer. But here is a plain, broad fact, party clamour and vociferation to forget in- which no subsequent elucidation can possidividual justice. His lordship, therefore, bly explain away. Here is my lord Melville deprecated entering fully into the business publicly declaring on his oath, that he has at present, unless it were intended to move tolerated his dependant in a gross breach of further for the dismissal of lord Melville an act of parliament, for the purposes of from his Majesty's service. He considered, private emolument. I really cannot find he observed, Mr. Trotter in the light of a language sufficiently strong to express my deputy of lord Melville's ; and that, there- utter detestation of such conduct. In my fore, the manner in which the public money mind, the friends of lord Melville have not entrusted to his care had been employed, at all affected the plain, simple state of the demanded the particular attention of parlia- transaction, What advantage can we dement; but his lordship was against treating rive from going into a committee, for the w lord Melville with the severity intended; purpose of contradicting an examination and deprecated their being hurried by their given on oath? I confess, sir, that I cansensations of strict rectitude into a prema- not make up my mind to believe that lord ture decision upon a subject which involved Melville received any direct gain from the objects of such magnitude. His lordship transactions alluded to. But, though I do also stated, that a strict examination of the not believe that lord Melville has been a paraccounts was very necessary to know to ticipator in the profits, yet I think it by no what length the supposed abuse had been means improbable that he may at times have carried. drawn more freely upon Mr. Trotter than Lord Andover supported the motion, and he ought to have done. I will not say that censured severely the conduct of lord Mel- lord Melville has not received accommodaville. He enlarged particularly upon the tion from these profits. The bare answer the noble lord had made when the his having borrowed 10 or 20,0001. at a time plain questions whether he had connived at from one of his clerks, is a very suspicious Mr. Trotter's practices, or received any emo- circumstance. It is clear that Mr. Trotter lument from them, were put to him by the is a man who acted on the great scale, and commissioners. An answer, his lordship this fact was of itself calculated to produce observed, very dissimilar to that of the Ro- strong suspicion. Let me ask any of my man statesman, who, scorning any other hon. friends around me, if there are no susjustification, appealed boldly to the opinion picious circumstances attending these transhis country at large entertained of his honour actions ? If the house was once to suffer a and integrity. Such was not lord Melville's minister to say that he had connived at the character: his sensibility, his integrity, was breach of a law by a person who had been not of that nature which “ seeks the light, his confidential servant for a number of and courts the day.” years, and that the superior was to pass unMr. Willerforce.—I do not rise, sir, at censured because no personal corruption had this late hour, to detain the house for any been proved against him; if that was once long time, but I cannot satisfy my mind to be admitted as a principle by which the without saying a few words in support of house of commons was to be directed, it the original motion ; for, notwithstanding would open a door to every species of corFhave listened with all the attention I am ruption, and there would be no security left a a for the faithful discharge of any public so much the measure itself which created trust. Ministers may be desirous of waiting such general discontent, as the circumstance till the public feeling shall have subsided, and of the judges having given their opinions in fancy that the whole business may blow over. favour of it. Lord Clarendon concludes his But they are mistaken. They appear to me reflections on this transaction with these reto have placed themselves in this situation. markable words : “ and here,” says he, They might have prevented it. Had I been “ the damage and mischief cannot be exin their places, I would not have risked my pressed, that the crown and state sustained reputation by setting up such a justification by the deserved reproach and infamy that as they have done for lord Melville.-As to attended the judges, by being made use of the argument that there has been no actual in this, and like acts of power; there being loss to the public by these transactions; no possibility to preserve the dignity, rewhen we reflect upon the consequences that verence, and estimation of the laws themmight arise from the detention of money in- selves, but by the integrity and innocency tended for the payment of so great a depart of the judges.” It is not only lord Melment as the navy of this country, when we viile, but we ourselves that are upon our reflect upon the lengths to which men may trial, and a fearful trial it is. If we shrink be induced to go if the mind is once accus- | from it we shall hereafter have reason to retomed to abuses, and when we consider the pent of our conduct. The house is now apinfluence such conduct must inevitably have pealed to as the constitutional guardian of upon all the inferioç departments, I do con- the rights of the people, and I should ill distend that the loss in a pecuniary view, may charge my duty to the public, if I did not have been to an extent almost incalculable. give my most cordial and sincere support to It has been elegantly and beautifully said by the present motion. a noble lord (Petty), that it would be fortu- Sir Charles Price observed, that, as a manate indeed for this country had these abuses gistrate and a man, he felt himself most never been discovered, if the result was to fully justified in declaring that it lord Melbe, that these Reports were to lay a dead ville had been entirely free from any crimiletter on the table of this house, to prove nality, he would have answered more fully and to proclaim, that although there might and unequivocally than he had done. He be found in this country persons honest and therefore supported the original motion. assiduous in conducting an inquiry into Mr. Wallace rose to express the convicabuses, there was after and behind all this, tion he felt of the personal integrity of lord a power able and willing to step in between Melville. the law and the offender against the law, and Lord Archibald Hamilton rose, amidst thereby establish at once the most fatal and loud cries for the question. He said he the most shameful of all precedents, that of would not detain the house a moment. No guilt known and acknowledged but not cen- member for Scotland had yet delivered their sured, of a breach of the law ascertained but sentiments on the question, and 'he only not punished. But have we not sustained a meant to state, that there was at least one loss which no money can repay ? Such is representative of that country who would the opinion which I entertain of the conse- vote for the original motion. quences of the loss of honour, that I esteem The house then divided :it beyond any thing that can be set in balance For Mr. Whitbread's otion ..........216 against it. Would to God we could be re For the Previous Question .. stored to the state we were in before this his casting vote in favour of Mr. Whitbread's Mo The numbers being thus equal the SPEAKER gave happened! If abuses such as have been tion, thereby making a Majority of.... ..., 1 brought to light by the commissioners of The question was then put on each of the naval inquiry are tolerated or in any degree resolutions moved by Mr. Whitbread, and countenanced by this house, melancholy in- carried in the affirmitive. When strangers deed will be the result. As to the "clamour” were re-admitted to the gallery, the house that has been mentioned, it is not the cry of was debating on the 11th resolution. It appopular faction, but it is the universal senti- peared that Mr. Pitt had moved to leave out ment of persons of every rank, of the rich as: the concluding words, viz. “ has been guilty well as the poor, of the middling class of the of a gross violation of the law, and a high community, who understand the constitu- / breach of duty,” with the view of substituttion perfectly well. Greatly as the people ing these words--" has acted contrary to of England disliked the conduct of Charles the intentions of the said act.” Afier a long the First in levying ship-money, it was not conversation Mr. Pitt obtained leave to ... 216 a withdraw this amendment, in order that he nived for 16 years, and then to fritter away might have an opportunity of proposing the conclusion, was a most extraordinary another in a preceding part of the same re- way of acquitting his colleague. solution. He proposed to insert after the Mr. Bastard said, it was impossible for words private interest or emolument,” | any gentleman to support such an amendthese words, “ of Mr. Trotter." This ment. amendment was warmly opposed. It was Mr. T. Grenville spoke to the same effect. contended, on the one side, that the resolu- Mr. Pitt persisting in his declaration that tion ought to be left in its' original ambigu- he would take the sense of the house, the ous form, as it gave no opinion on the ques- gallery was cleared; but on the question tion of lord Melville's personal emolument; being put on the motion as it originally and that to throw the whole upon Mr. Trot- stood, the speaker declared that the ayes had ter, would be pronouncing a decision, which it, and Mr. Pitt did not push the house to the house, from the facts before them, were a division. Before strangers were re-adnot competent to make. mitted, Mr. Whitbread had moved an adSir William Pulteney suggested, that the dress to his Majesty for removing lord Mela words, “ as acknowledged by lord Melville," ville from his councils; and at the time in addition to those proposed by Mr. Pitt, the gallery was opened Mr. Pitt was prowould meet the ideas of both sides of the posing to postpone the consideration of this house. motion until Wednesday. Mr. Whitbread said, he had no particular Mr. For said, after the long debate which objection to "this amendment. The words had already taken place, he should have no in his motion had been left general, because objection to the postponement of his hon, it was confessed that the sums were drawn friend's motion, provided it was understood out for private interest and emolument, but that the house should not sit in the interval. not specified directly whether for lord Mel- He could not consent to a proposition which ville as well as Mr. Trotter. In this way would leave to the house the chance of the motion was read by the chair. It then meeting again without having taken any step stood thus : “ That the right hon. bord vis- to reinove a disgraced administration. count Melville having been privy to, and Mr. Pitt.–Certainly, in every view of the “ connived at, the withdrawing from the case, it is better that the house should ad“ bank of England, for the purpose, as sta- journ to Wednesday next. “ted by lord Melville, of private emolument Adjourned at 5 o'clock on Tuesday morn" to Mr. Trotter, sums issued to lord Mel- ing to Wednesday. “ ville as treasurer of the navy, and placed to his account in the bank, according to List of the Mojority. Abbot, Right Hon. C. (Speaker.) Bouverie, Hon. E. Althorpe, Lord Brogden, James Brooke, Charles clear elucidation of the case. that the trea- Anderson, Sir J. W. Bart. Browne, F. John surer of the navy could answer whether he Andover, Viscount Browne, Isaac H. had not derived advantage from the public "Annesley, Francis Buller, James Bunbury, Sir C. money, the words in the resolution ought to Antonie, Wm. Lee Byng, George be left ambiguous. Astley; Sir J. H. Bart. Calcraft, J. (Teller) Mr. Fox said, that the attempt to screen Atkins, John Calvert, Nicholson lord Melville from the result of the previous Aubrey, Sir J. Bart. Cavendish, Lord G. resolutions by so trifling an amendment, Babington, Thomas , Cavendish, W. Chapman, Charles would do the noble lord no good, but would Bagenal, Walter Coke, Thonias put that house in a very awkward point of Baker, John Coke, Edward view. Baker, Wm. Coombe, H. C. Mr. Wilberforce said, that not to brand Baker, Peter W. Cooke, Biyan the transaction by the epithets of . Cornewall, Sir G. A. lation of the law, and a high breach of duty, Barclay, George Courtenay, John after the confession of lord Melville, would Barclay, Sir Robert Cowper, Hon. S. be ignominious to the house. Barham, Jos. Foster Creevey, Thomas Mr. Sheridan said, that the amendment Bastard, J. Pollenfen Barlow, F.W. Curtis, Sir William made the motion almost nonsense. Curwen, J. C. To say, Best, W. Draper Cumming, in the first instance, that lord Melville con- Bligh, Hon, Thomas' Daley, D. Bowes Vol. IV. Y а 1 Dennison, John Marsham, Lord Tierney, Right Hon. G. Whitbread, S. (Teller) Townshend, Lord J. Willoughby, Hon. H. Tyrwhitt, Thomas Wilberforce, Wm. Vansitrart, George Williams, H. Walpole, Hon. G. Williams, Owen Dugdale, s. D. Metcalte, Sir Theo. Walpole, Hon. H. Walsh, Sir B. Dundas, Hon. L. Middleton, Sir W. Ward, Hon. J W. Windham, Right Hon. W. Dundas, Hon. C. L. Milbanke, Sir R. Watson, Hon. George Wrottesley, Sir John; Western, C. Callis Wynn, C. W. W. Young, Sir W. Wright, John Atkins List of the Minority. Abercromby, Hon. G. Dundas, Rt. Hon. W. Foley, Thomas Moore, P. Adams, Wim. Dunlo, Lord Foljambe, F. Ferrand Newport, Sir John Addington, Rt. Hon. Dupre, James Fitzgerald, Rt. Hon. J. Noel, G. Noel Ainstie, R.S Elford, Sir W. Fitzpatrick, Rt. Hon. R. Neville, Alexander, Boyd Eliot, Hon. W. Folkes, Sir M. B. Ņorth, Dudley Alexander, H. Ellison, R. Folkestone, Viscount Northey, Wm. Archdall, Richard Erskine, Sir W. O'Brien, Sir Edward Ashley, Hon. C. Estcourt, T. Bagwell, John Everett, T. Francis, Philip Osborne, Loid F. G. Bagwell, William Euston, Earl Frankland, William Ossulston, Lord Baillie, Evan Fane, Francis Fane, Henry Barne, Snowden Fane, John Paxton, Sir William Bathurst, Rt. Hon. C. Fane, Hon T. Beaumont, T. R. Farquhar, James Beresford, Lord G.T. Fellowes, W. H. Beresford, John Ferguson, James Finch, Hon. E. Grenville, R . Hon. T. Petty, Lord Henry Bloxham, Sir M. Fitzgerald; Rt. Hon. M.* Grey, Hon. Charles Pierpoint, Hon. Č. H. Bond, N. Fitzharris, Lord Grimston, Hon. J. W.. Plumer, William Brodie, James Fitzhugh, W. Foster, Rt. Hón. J, Frederick Sir J. Bruce, Lord Fydell, Thomas Holland, Sir Nathan. Poyntz, William S. Biure, P. C.. Garland, George Buller, John Gibbs, V. Burrows, Sir W. Giddy, Davies Burton, N.C. Glenbervie, Lord Calvert, J. Graham, T. Campbell, J.A. Grant, F. W. Campbell, John Grant, Sir W. Campbell, Lord J. Greene, W. Canning, Rt. Hon. G. Greville, Hon. R. F. Cartwright, W. R. Gunning, R. Chuse, W. Hamilton, Kensington, Lord Scudamore, John Clephane, David Hamilton, H. King, Sir J. Dashwood Shaftoe, Robert E. D. Cline, W. Hamilton, Sir C. Kinnaird, Hon. C. Shakespeare, Arthur Clive, Hon. R. Hamond, Sir A S. Knight, R. Payne Shelley, Timothy Cockerell, C. Hardman, Edward Ladbroke, Robert Shelley, John Colquhoun, James Harvey, E. Lambton, Ralph Sheridan, R. B. Corry, Rt. Hon. I. Hawkins, Sir C. Langton, W. Gore Simpson, Hon. Jahn Cranley, Lord Hawthorne, C.S. Lascelles, Hon. Edward Smith, Wm. Curzon, Hon. R. Hiathcote, Sir W, Lascelles, Hon. Henry Smith, Charles Cust, Hon. J. H:nderson, A. Dashwood, Sir H. Hill, Sir George Dent, John Hilliard, E. Devaynes, W. Hobhouse, B. De Blacquire, Lord Hudson, J. Holford, G.P. Dickenson, W. jun. Hope, Hon. Alez. Symonds, Thomas P. Dickenson, W. sen. Hope, Hon. C. Horrocks, J. Douglas, Sir Geo. Huntingfield, Lord Duigenan, Patrick Huskisson, W. Dundas, Phillip Juglis, Sir H. Alanners, John '1 hornton, Samuel Dundas, Hon. R. Jeffray, J. |
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