Mr. Fonblanque stated the inconveniences which would arise in the discussion of committee should consist of persons whose this matter in a court of equity, as reasons why the house should consider a great deal before it gave up its own control over the case in order to send it before that tribunal.

the proceedings of committees chosen by sition meeting the sense of their lordships, ballot, the country owed the highest ob- it was ordered accordingly. ligations, and he trusted his friends would not be diverted from following the ancient practice of the house in the best times by any insinuations of sinister motives. After a few words from Mr. Grey, the house divided on the motion for a ballot. Ayes 251; noes 120; majority 131.-Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

pleased to order that there be laid before the house, an account of all monies and sums drawn from the West Indies, upon his majesty's treasury, from the 1st of Dec. 1798, to the 1st of Dec. 1802, specifying the amount of the respective drafts, the time of their being respectively drawn, and the different times of payment."

[WEST INDIA ACCOUNTS.] The Earl of Suffolk, after shortly adverting to a recent communication which he had with the noble secretary of state, then in his place, observed, he should have to move their lordships with respect to the production of certain very important public accounts. He was aware that documents of this nature should not in general be produced, except adequate parliamentary or public Friday, April 26. grounds were laid for their exposition. In [MINUTES.] The consideration of the the present instance, he was confident the appeal cause, Cathcart, Bart. v. the earl of ground he should proceed on was unobCassilis, being resumed, Mr. H. Erskine jectionable in these points of view; it was was heard on behalf of the noble respon- no less than that of public delinquency, dent The bills upon the table, chiefly of which, he had reason to think, he could a private or local description, were read in make appear, in case the documents he their several stages.-The lord Chancellor should forthwith move for were granted to called the attention of their lordships to him; and this consideration, without going the great number and accumulation of ap-farther, he would aver, was an adequate peal causes and writs of error which now and sufficient reason for their production. lay over for consideration, particularly The noble earl then moved, "That an with respect to those which came from humble address be presented to his majesIreland and Scotland. According to the ty, praying that he would be graciously present mode of proceeding, the attention of their lordships could not be regularly drawn to some of these, perhaps for years. It would be important that some line should be endeavoured to be struck out, or some arrangements formed, with a view to the more regular and expeditious hearing or disposal of these causes, in reference to the concerns of the parties, as well as to Lord Hawkesbury said, he did not rise the business of the house. Under this im- to oppose the motion, the nature of which pression, he should move for the appoint-the noble earl had communicated to him ment of a committee of their lordships, to a few minutes since; but, to express bis take the subject, which was one in every point of view of great importance, into consideration. In such a proceeding, the order of rotation for hearing, in which the different cases at present stood, the respective general natures of the cases, and also the places from whence the appeals were made, should be taken into consideration. It was his idea that their lordships who were present this session should be empowered to sit in such a committee. His lordship then moved to the following effect: "That a committee of the Lords present this session be appointed to take into consideration the different appeals and writs of error now pending before the house, with a reference to a more regular, convenient, and expeditious mode of hearing and proceeding on the same; and that the said committee do commence its proceedings on Tuesday next."-This propo

opinion generally, that documents of the kind should not be produced, unless some adequate parliamentary or public grounds were laid for such production. Such motions should not be made, as he feared, was sometimes the case, idly, or upon light grounds. For, independent of other important considerations, it should be recollected, that such proceedings induce great inconvenience, at different public offices, and sometimes so as materially to interfere with the necessary dispatch of public business. To the present motion he had no objection; nor did he mean, in any thing said, the least to call in question the general right of parliament, on sufficient grounds, to call for official information; more especially in what (and which was peculiarly and constitutionally its province) concerned the public expenditure.

The Earl of Suffolk acquiesced in the observations of the noble secretary of state. There was one expression which, he said, he was sorry had fallen from him, namely, a motion idly made. This by no means could apply to that which he had just submitted to the house; for, if he were not greatly mistaken, or misinformed, he could ground, upon the documents moved for, a charge of delinquency on the part of the treasury.

Lord Hawkesbury explained, that it was obvious, that what he stated generally could not be intended to apply to the motion of the noble earl, inasmuch as he expressly stated he did not. mean to oppose it. The question was then put, and the address ordered accordingly.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

sundry papers therein referred to.-Mr. Creevey referred to some observations which had been made some time since on the subject of the revenue of the Isle of Man. It might be recollected that it was then stated that the surplus of the revenue of that island for six years had amounted to the sum of 20,0001. Upon enquiry into its application, it was said that in the year 1802, the sum of 3,000l. had been paid into the Exchequer, and passed over to the consolidated fund, notwithstanding there was a specific act of parliament against such application. Of course there was the sum of 17,000l. remaining for the purposes of the island. The hon. member then gave notice, that he would on Friday next move for a committee to enquire into the application of the remainder of the surplus revenue of the Isle of Man.

mon the members, the balloting proceeded. When all the names of the members had been read by the clerk, and when those who chose to vote had deposited their lists in the balloting glass,

Friday, April 26. [BALLOT FOR A SELECT COMMITTEE ON [MINUTES.] A new writ was ordered THE 10th NAVAL REPORT.] On the for Bleachingley, in the room of James motion of the Chancellor of the ExcheMills, Esq. deceased.-Sir John Newport, quer, the order of the day for balloting a after observing that the order of the house Select Committee, was read. The serjeant made on the 7th March last, for an ac-at arms having, in pursuance of order, count of the expences of state prosecutions gone to the speaker's chambers, the court in Ireland, had not been complied with, of requests, and places adjacent, to summoved that it be forthwith complied with. Ordered. On the motion of Sir John Newport, it was ordered that the several papers presented yesterday from the office of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, be printed. Sir John Anderson brought up Mr. Sturges Bourne moved, that a coma bill for making a Tunnel under the mittee be appointed to examine the lists, Thames, from the parish of Rotherhithe, and to report to the house the names of in Surrey, to the parish of St. John Wap- the twenty-one members who had the maping, in Middlesex. Read a first, and or-jority of votes. dered to be read a second time.-On the Mr. Whitbread rose, and said he had still motion of Mr. Rose, the Thames Lastage stronger reasons now than he had yesterand Ballastage bill was read a second time. day, for his objection to the mode of pro-Sir M. W. Ridley observed, that this ceeding by ballot. He was then apprebill repealed all the regulations of former hensive that such a mode would, in fact, acts, and substituted other very important subject the nomination of that committee ones which required a good deal of consi- to the influence and dictation of a minister. deration; he therefore requested the right This day he found those apprehensions hon. gent. would not push it immediately strengthened, by a very confident rumour through a committee, but allow a few days circulated, upon he knew not what authofor that purpose: to which Mr. Rose ac-rity, that, notwithstanding all the apparent ceding, the bill was ordered to be commit- fairness and impartiality of a ballot, yet ted to a committee of the whole house on that the names to be returned upon the Monday fortnight.-On the motion of sir committee were pre-determined by the. A. S. Hammond, it was ordered that there minister; by which the business of the be laid before the house a copy of a letter ballot was converted into a solemn from the Comptroller of the Navy to the mockery, and rendered wholly nugatory as Board of Admiralty, dated 22d April, 1805, to the obvious intentions of the house. A on the subject of the evidence printed in list of those names had been this day put the 11th Report of the Commissioners of into his hand, which he would now read Naval Enquiry; together with copies of in his place-Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Whit

bread, Master of the Rolls, Mr. W. Wind- were ordered forthwith to the speaker's ham, sir W. Scott, Mr. T. Grenville, Mr. chamber. Ryder, lord George Cavendish, lord Dunlo, Mr. Sheridan again rose, and observed, lord W. Russell, Mr. Leycester, Mr. St. that his hon. friend had just read a list of John, Mr. Foster, Mr. H. Lascelles, sir H. members, which he (Mr. W.) had been Mildmay, Mr. S. Thornton, Mr. J. Fane, given to understand the scrutineers would lord Boyle, Mr. Cartwright, Mr. Hawkins return, in consequence of the pre-concerted Brown, Mr. Gunning.-If the list of the instructions received from ministers. Now committee to be returned by the scrutineers it was extremely important for the house should tally with the names he had read, to ascertain whether the committee, for the fact he had just stated would be too the appointment of which it had already palpable to admit of the smallest doubt; decided, was to be fairly and bona fide and by that circumstance he should be chosen by a ballot; or whether that ballot guided in such steps as he should feel him- was to be rendered nugatory, and the comself bound to adopt under such a circum-mittee to be really nominated by governstance. Many of the names in this list ment, to the flagrant deception of the were undoubtedly of high respectability, house, and the probable defeat of its ob and highly eligible; but every man must be sensible, that many others of them were men whose situations and known sentiments rendered them totally ineligible to any thing like fair and impartial enquiry upon the subject of the Tenth Report of the Naval Commissioners. If the names of those members should appear upon the list of the committee returned, he should move, however unprecedented such a motion might be deemed, to expunge their names from the committee, and to insert others, not so objectionable, and of course more compatible with the objects contemplated by the house.

ject. An hon. member, last night, had proposed a mode of selecting the committee, which he was persuaded would have been much more likely to have obtained a fair and impartial selection, than that which was the pleasure of the house to adopt, namely, to propose the members one at a time from each side of the house, and then it would have been fairly seen how far his majesty's ministers were disposed to accede to that principle of impartial investigation, to which some of them had professed themselves so friendly. But he well knew from past experience, that the mode adopted was not the one likely to obtain an impartial selection. There was an important occasion, some years since, which occur

Mr. For observed, it was very possible that the names of some members might be returned upon the committee, who, how-red to his recollection. It was a ballot proever unobjectionable, could not, without most material injury to their own interests and avocations, devote their attentions to the business of an investigation, likely to be so arduous and of such long duration. He should hope, therefore, that as in the case of election committees, any gentleman so circumstanced, would, upon application to the house, be excused from attendance.

posed for selecting a committee of EastIndia judicature; upon which occasion, as well as on many others well known, it was irrefragably and flagrantly obvious, that the ballot for a committee was but a mere mask for the nomination of the minister; and that in fact, the names of the persons to serve had been previously determined by ministers; that the lists of those names Mr. Sheridan hoped, that after the mo- were made up at the treasury, and put by tion now before the house was disposed of, ministers into the hands of their friends. namely, the question upon the list of scru- Now, if the fact was so in the present case, tineers moved by Mr. Sturges Bourne, his it was necessary the house should know it; hon. friend (Mr. Whitbread) would, in and the comparison of the list, in the hand some more explicit way, put the house in of his hon. friend, with the return of the possession of the list of the names he had scrutineers, would be a pretty strong cri just read, in order to lay the foundation terion of the truth. Upon the former ocfor such a measure as might appear neces-casion, to which he had alluded, the busisary, in the result to which he had alluded. uess was done so openly, that one of the -The question on Mr. Bourne's motion door-keepers of the house put the lists into was put, that certain members, whom he the hands of members as they entered. He named, be appointed to select from the (Mr. S.) had charged the fact upon minisballot; which was agreed to without op-ters, and pledged himself to prove it to the position, and the members appointed house, and he accordingly had moved to

have Joseph Pearson, the door-keeper, I sent instance was, that the honour and called to the bar and examined. He was dignity of parliament would be best mainhowever, resisted by the right hon. gent. tained by passing over in silence such over the way (Mr. Pitt), and the house trifling indiscretions. The acting otherdivided against it, for the ayes were but wise, would have no other effect than to 38, and the noes 108. In the present in-countenance them. Parliament ought to stance, he would recommend to his hon. friend to lay his list on the table, in some manner which would bring it fairly within the cognizance of the house.

entertain a firmer reliance on its own rectitude. Such were his sentiments on this occasion, and he hoped, that some other member, better acquainted with the customs of the house, would suggest some

Mr. Whitbread said, it was his intention to ground some proceeding upon the bu-mode by which such a dignified and insiness, in case the list returned by the scrutineers should correspond with it.

The Speaker said, that unless the hon. member meant to conclude by some motion, there was no question now before the house.

Mr. Whitbread said he should then shape a motion, and accordingly moved the following resolution :-"That it is a high breach ofthe privileges of this house, to circulate lists nominating persons to be chosen on any committee by ballot." The question being then put, the house divided, when there appeared, for the motion, 45; against it, 124; majority, 79.

[PROCEEDINGS RESPECTING THE PRINTER OF "THE ORACLE."] On the motion of Mr. Grey the order of the day for the attendance of Peter Stuart, the printer of the Oracle" was now read.

dependent conduct might still be rigorously attended to, even in the present case.

Mr. Grey said, that if he had conceived this matter to be of light or trivial importance, he should never have made such a complaint. There was no member in the house more unwilling than he was to enter complaints against individuals, or to interfere with the free discussion of public affairs. Had the present paragraph been only a free comment on public matters, as the hon. gentleman who had just spoken seemed to imply, he should not have troubled the house on this occasion. It was not difficult, however, to judge of the true nature and bearing of this matter. He who runs might read in the present instance. It was only yesterday he had seen it, and he still retained the same opinion he then did, as to its mischievous Mr. Atkins Wright spoke against the tendency. It could not be viewed at all adoption of any severe measure as to the in the light of a fair discussion of a pubeditor of "the Oracle." Although he lic question. If it did appear to the house was perfectly convinced in his own mind, in a contrary light, he was perfectly wilas to the propriety of supporting the reso-ling to forbear from all further proceedlutions of the house, yet his peace of mind ings. To him, however, it bore a very was not at all broke in upon because his different aspect and character. It was no conduct, along with that of other mem-discussion, it was mere invective, absolute bers, had been severely censured. It was and unqualified abuse, tending to vilify well known with what rigour the house the proceedings, degrade the character, had enforced their determination not to and insult the authority of parliament. He restrain any animadversion by the public lamented the necessity he was under of on the conduct of parliament. God for-performing such a duty, and he would bid! said the hon. member, that the peo-willingly have overlooked it, had he not ple of this country should have any im- been convinced that it outstripped all pediments thrown in their way, in discus-bounds of moderation in the candid dissing the conduct of their representatives cussion of public affairs. If the hon. memfairly and freely. Most certainly, such aber who had endeavoured to justify such liberty ought to be exercised in a becom- a manifest infringement of their privileges, ing manner. It was well known, that the publishers of papers were too apt to indulge themselves in discussing what they called party questions. He professed to be of no party; but he felt as much as any man the necessity of maintaining, in all its purity, what was called the liberty of the press. His own opinion in the preVOL. IV.

should think proper to move that the order be discharged, he should not think it necessary to press his motion any further.The question, which had originally been proposed by Mr. Grey, was then put from the chair" That the printer of the Oracle' be called to the bar of the house."

Mr. Atkins Wright again rose and con2 F