ever so severe and honest, the public would not be satisfied with such a committee, after such a charge which he (Mr. W.) offered to prove. He reckoned, therefore, such a motion not extraordinary, after what had happened, though not precedented.— The hon. member then alluded to his own name, and observed, that he would gladly withdraw from such a committee; but if it appeared the general wish for him to remain on it, he should certainly take care to at by political storms and tempests, they only bound him more firmly to his post. That noble lord seemed invulnerable; he laughed at the convulsions of government and parties. Nothing short of an earthquake could shake him. He had been already celebrated for having two strings to his bow, and he kept his bow always strung. He seemed not to have two strings only to his bow, but as many as a certain person was noted for having to his knees. He was in power in the right hon. gent.'s last adminis-tend to it. Let him, however, be struck tration. He performed him some services off, if any person thought his conduct in at the union; after the union leaving Ire- this business rancorous; if they considered land, he came here, and was in place again, him a persecutor instead of a prosecutor; That administration went out on a specific or if they could see the folly he was acpublic ground, and another came in on a cused of, respecting the alleged changes in directly opposite principle; but still the no- the order of his motion. He liked his ble lord clung to office, and kept in place. conduct the better for the censures he reThat ministry was turned out by the help ceived from some persons.-After dwelling of his right hon. friend; but then was the with great force on the modes attempted noble lord again in power, and now he is to screen lord Melville, and the limitations in a new coalition. He did not question the of the power of the committee, he mainpurity of his principles, in all those evolu- tained, that with the first majority of one, tions by which he contrived to maintain his and the minorities since, the people of position and keep himself where he was: but England, Scotland, and Ireland, went hand would the country think him a proper per- in hand, and applauded their justice and son to investigate the conduct of his pa- spirit. Was all talent gone? Could no tron? He and his patron, no doubt, de-independent gentlemen be found to make served each other's friendship, for their up a committee for such a purpose as this? mutual services. He would give his lord- He would put it to the gent. of the opship credit for manly policy, and gratitude posite side, whether they would make this to the right hon. gent.; but though this committee a screen, or a stalking-horse? might be very gratifying in private life, Would they have the public consider it as it rather disqualified him for the situation a cloak to cover lord Melville? He thought to be allotted him. For what was the coin- he could name a gentleman, even in the mittee to examine into? Delicate and se-place of the Master of the Rolls, though cret transactions! The noble lord had been less able, yet whom the country would like engaged in similar transactions in Ireland better; and this would apply more largely already, and his palate may have become to the other objectionable persons. He vitiated in these matters, and the public could find persons as competent, and posand he entertain very different ideas on the sessing more of the faith of the public. Inuses and abuses of public money. He stead of the name of the noble lord, he might refer to some late matters. The would propose a gentleman whom he had noble lord had been charged by the right loved and respected from youth, but whom hon. gent. now sitting beside him (Mr. he had almost constantly opposed in poliFoster) with a scandalous misuse of money,tics, both in and out of that house; with in payments to persons in Ireland, to carry whom he must have sometimes had the the union, and had sat mute. He felt con-heats and even the bitterness of contestvinced that the right hon. gent. opposite a bitterness of zeal and not of acrimony; could not, from his usual accuracy, have made the charge, could he not have proved it. It was repeated last night. He would refer the noble lord to his right hon. friend. If he denied it, what if he examined Mr. Foster at the bar? What might not turn out in these "delicate transactions" of lord Melville? Was the noble lord a person fit for that committee? Let the enquiry be one who had given the right hon. gent. an independent support for years. This gentleman he had even within these few months opposed actively in his election to serve in that house, and he did not repent of it: he might do so again. meant Mr. Baker, of Hertford; a gentleman of talents, and anxiously laborious in every thing relative to public advantage, He hoped he should never again have occasion to recur to. He could confidently assert he had never given the sanction of and commanding every respect from all who knew him. He should therefore conclude by moving, "that the name of lord Castlereagh be struck out, and that of Mr.bis authority (humble, indeed, it was) in Baker substituted in its room." Mr. Whitbread lamented he had been so unsuccessful as not to make himself understood; he thought it was impossible for any man to apply a construction, on what was said, in the smallest degree disrespectful to the right hon. and learned gentleman. the support of any principle, of which, in The Master of the Rolls said, if it were his conscience, he disapproved. If he were necessary that every member of a com- objected to for his deportment, it must be mittee should constantly attend the duty, in the house, not in the committee; the many of those now proposed ought to be members of these select establishments excluded; but this was not considered ex- had no option, they had only to exercise pedient. He had never represented bim-common sense on the evidence that was self as so absorbed in business, that he had no produced before them. He apologised to moment and no day which he could devote the house, the rather because he did not to this branch of his parliamentary engage-rise to speak to the question, but to that ments. He had frequently acted in such part of the hon. gentleman's address which situations: he was named for one on the appeared to convey some imputation on civil list; for another of considerable con- his (the Master of the Roll's) character, sequence relating to barley grain in Scot- but at the same time he acquitted that hon. land; and he had sufficient time to form gentleman of any design either to misrehis opinion, and to assist in the prepara-present his conduct or his motives. tions of the report. He trusted then he was not to be considered as unqualified, and he hoped it was not thought on every frivolous pretence he was disposed to abandon any duty, which it was fit that a member of that house should perform. Certain he was, that he had never deserted Mr. Wortley Stuart observed, that whatany situation of this kind in which he was ever influence the treasury might have used called upon to act, but on account of its in circulating lists, it certainly had not interference with his indispensable engage-done more than the hon. gentleman had ments in some other place. He was on a secret committee in 1794, upon another in 1799, but if he were unfit for such a charge as that now proposed, he should with great pleasure submit to the direction of the house. Many years he had enjoyed the honour of being a member of that house, but he had never made extravagant professions; he was convinced his character must depend, not upon self-applause, but upon conduct. If he had never vaunted of high qualities to the disparagement of others, he had not wholly disclaimed party feelings and party principles, and he should rather think the worse of that man who was destitute of either. If, by the peculiar circumstances he was now called upon to vindicate his own honour, he would publicly proclaim, that he never in that house uttered a sentiment he did not conscientiously feel; when he expressed his opinion, that the Sherits of Middlesex should not be punished before they were heard by their counsel, whatever might be attributed to him, he was influenced by no party bias; he imputed to neither side improper motives; he had a more fit employment in regarding the purity of his own. He was discussing a most unpleasant topic, he was speaking of himself-a subject, he done by circulating the lists which he had brought down the other day. In his list, every man named had voted against lord Melville; and did this shew a greater degree of impartiality than that list which had been ascribed to the treasury? Mr. For was at all times happy to pay due deference to the usage of the house, when it was governed by the fit respect to the principles of the British constitution. The attempt of an individual to force a list for a committee upon the house, would be culpable; but it was in a much higher degree criminal for any such experiment to emanate from the treasury, accompanied with the influence that must be presumed from that quarter. If his hon. friend (Mr. Whitbread) had brought down a list, he should have voted for it, provided he approved of it; but if his own conduct were the immediate object of investigation, he should have been utterly ashamed of himself, if he did not take all possible means of shewing to the public, he would have no share in recommending a single individual, for the purpose of such an enquiry. If his friend should produce to him a list, where he (Mr. Fox) was then personally concerncd, he would say, "I will have nothing to do with the nomination of my own | When this was proposed, in the pursuit judges," and he would not condescend to of his present design, the hon. gent. (Mr. inspect it. If his eye were to stray upon Whitbread) should have proposed that all the paper, and he should discover in the list the name of his hon. friend, he should enquire if his friend meant to surrender his affection, and to insult him by such a proposition; much less could he do such an act in a clandestine manner; in such a case every name must be submitted to the observation of the house, and be exposed to its solemn decision. Considering the conduct of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) was implicated in the charge, it was most indecent that his own colleagues should be appointed to the committee. He could only say, that to place himself in such a situation, was diametrically opposite to every sentiment he (Mr. Fox) could indulge; but if the right hon. gentleman could accommodate his feelings to such a condition, he (Mr. Fox) sincerely congratulated him on the convenient effect of his insensibility. persous in office should be excluded from the ballot. He should have gone farther, and have insisted, that all gentlemen who condescended to honour him (the chancellor of the exchequer) with their private friendship, should also be excluded. Such were the extraordinary propositions by which these wild notions of personal delicacy and private honour must be main[tained, that his (Mr. Pitt's) colleagues in office, as well as those with whom he was connected by the ties of affection, were to be deprived of their parliamentary privi leges. On the other grounds of objection, after what had been so ably stated by his right hon. and learned friend, it was not necessary for him to detain the house. This was not an election committee, where it was required that the members should be present during every moment of the proceedings; and if he were not resisting the The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that motion of the hon. gentleman, he should on this subject the feelings of men seemed now have been proposing a quorum for to lead them to extraordinary extremes. the committee, to render such constant atIf he was to be sent on his trial where no tendance wholly unnecessary. Would charge had been exhibited-if he acceded gentlemen then say, that because some to this, what they required was, that his members, from their other important dujury should be entirely composed of men ties, could not devote the whole of their whom he could challenge for cause. This time to such an enquiry, that they were might be their notions of justice, but if he never to be nominated upon committees, had any thing to apprehend from the ef- and were to be excluded from so essential fects of the spirit of party, the only way to a branch of their parliamentary functions? determine the point properly was to take What would be the consequence? Those care that the majority should not be com- persons who were best acquainted with the posed of those whom habit, if not convic-business of finance would be precluded tion, might lead to find him guilty. He from sitting on committees in that imporwas not so chimerical in point of honour, tant department; those best versed in leso forgetful of the principles of reason, gal subjects would be prevented from justice, and the law of England, as to put giving the assistance of their learning in himself in the situation which they pro-juridical investigations; those who were posed, for the perilous chance of acquir-most informed on the great political inteing their approbation. Nor was the prac- rests of states, would be incapacitated from tice of parliament on this occasion so in-affording their light on that important consistent, as had been represented, with branch of enquiry; and thus the country the maxims of the British constitution. would be deprived of the benefit of that The committee had been appointed in the mass of talent, the application of which way most usual on such occasions. It was would be most conducive to its glory and true that the mode had often been object-happiness. Then it was said the house was ed to, yet, upon argument, it had been to look to what the public expected of it: approved. Committees so appointed had produced reports most satisfactory to the house and to the nation, and he was not, upon old exploded reasoning, disposed to renounce what had been so long established. Had not the house already decided the committee was to be chosen by ballot? the house certainly was to attend to what the public ought to expect; and that would be best indicated by a calin, firm, and resolute discharge of its duty. But a party cry, which assumed to itself the voice of the people, was not to be mistaken for the popular sentiment, in order to annihilate the acknowledged privileges of a member | if possible, yet more objectionable. Could of the legislature. These were examina- it then be said (he would repeat the questions proceeding on the general principles tion) that no cause was shewn for the chalof justice; every honourable man was lenge? It was extremely suspicious, that therefore a fit member of such committees; the first person proposed by his hon. friend the joint talent of the house, when col- (Mr. Whitbread), being a partizan of the lected, would most effectually conduce to ministers, should be resisted, and the prothe elucidation of truth. Was the intro- position for the ballot immediately sucduction of one party only the best way to ceed. The right hon. gent. said, "shall. procure a fair, and the exclusion of the I be stripped of my friends? Is no percontrary side the most probable means of son in office, no one connected with me to obtaining a wise, decision? Undue influ- appear in the committee?" It was not ence ought not to be employed; but to required that no colleague in place should say that to suggest a list to the inspection be on the committee, but it was demanded, of a member, was the use of undue influ- that the members should not be pestered ence, seemed an assertion not at all correct, with treasury lists. Could the right hon. because it could by no means be disco-gent. not trust to the league of private afvered if the party had or had not voted fection? And if his confidence were defiaccording to that intimation. The matter cient there, could he not repose in the exon the whole appeared to him so plain, that he felt it difficult to vindicate himself for speaking so long; but his leading desire was to rescue the house and its proceedings from the imputation which had been justly directed against both. pectation, that, for the many favours received, and the many more in reversion, his connections would not be unmindful of his security? It was not fair to say, the exclusion, on some important occasions, of persons in place, was unknown Mr. Sheridan said, there was a warmth to our law; this was the case under the intruded into the discussion, which did not circumstance of appointing committees on belong to it. The real question was, which delinquency in the East Indies. Who side of the house most conduced to sup-brought in the bill by which this was enport the character of the house, and to ful-acted? Lord Melville. This was the pubfil the just expectations of the public? In some degree the right hon. gent. seemed to have a correct notion of the subject, but in order to justify himself, he presumed to call the opinion of the nation a party cry. Were the resolutions of the City of London a party cry? Were the meetings all over the kingdom a party cry? Was the vote of the house of commons, supported by the independent spirit of its speaker, a party cry? It ought to be known, that the time was at hand, when it was necessary to encourage the friends of the state, by the loud voice of the people. The gent. on his side of the house did not challenge the individuals proposed for the committee without cause. They distinctly said, no one holding a place under the crown, is a proper person to examine the conduct of the first lord of the treasury. They said, a person like the noble lord, who had since the union acted with the minister, went out with him, came again into office with him, and remained to open a back door for the right hon. gent.'s admission, is not a fit man to be employed on such an occasion. Perhaps, the ire amantium, of which gentlemen had heard within these few hours, rendered him, The lic reformer who was so lately libelled by Mr. Sheridan disclaimed all idea of the smallest objection to the hon. gent. and said that his objection did not go to the committee, but to the mode in which it had been appointed by the right hon. gentleman. committee, of whom it was said he had man that to all those to whom he had corrupted the Irish parliament. If he any public objection, he had mentioned would commit such practices with regard his objections, and that he never could to one legislature, his inclination at least have entertained the slightest to him indiwould not be deficient to do the same to vidually. On the contrary, he appealed another. On this charge of the misapplica- to himself, to say whether he had not tion of the money, the right hon. gent. asked his advice as to the names he should was to be tried, and if it should be found himself put down in the list, and his conthat the first lord of the treasury autho-sent to insert his own name? rised such conduct, it would be no wonder Mr. H. Lascelles acknowledged the hon. if the subalterns in office took advantage gent. had done so, and he felt himself of it to effect their own purposes. The much obliged by the compliment; but third regarded the discharge given to lord he did not allude to him, but to what had Melville, on account of the defalcation been said by Mr. Sheridan. of Mr. Jellicoe. Was it not then most obvious, that the right hon. gent.'s purity was the question to be determined in all these? Then his hon. friend very naturally enquired what would a man of honour do if placed in such an unhappy predicament? The right hon. gent., when the subject was started, made no objection to the committee. Ile felt himself so closely touched, so sore when his conduct was doubted, that he would have the matter fully examined, and, to use his own words, he would have it sifted to the bottom. Then said his hon. friend truly, a man of honour, in such a disposition, would have no concern with, and if possible, no knowledge of the parties by whom the enquiries were to be prosecuted. But what was the course of the right hon. gent. He said, "I will prescribe the line of your march. I will appoint the commanders in the field." He drew up the indictment by which he was to be arraigned, and then nominated the jury before whom he was to be tried. He would tell the right hon. gent., in such a proceeding he had consulted his own honour; the people of England would be disappointed, and they were entitled to a fair, full, and impartial investigation. Mr. Fuller said, though he felt a great respect for the hon. members who composed the committee, he was afraid, from the way in which it had been appointed, the public would not think it so impartial. as it ought to be. It was known, he said, as well as the sun at noon-day, that his side of the house wished the right hon. gent. out of office; and it was as well known that he would endeavour to keep in as long as he could. He was sorry to see him proceeding in such a way, to obtain an enquiry into his conduct. He thought the committee he had recommended the other night would have been a much fairer one, viz. the taking one alternately from each side of the house, and all those to whom he had since mentioned it were of the same opinion. Why were not the names of two hon. gentlemen below in this list; gentlemen of the most noble and independent principles, and who had for many years past supported the measures of the right hon. gentleman? He Mr. H. Lascelles said, he wished to mentioned Mr. Bankes by name (and there trouble the house with but a very few was a cry of order! order!). The other words indeed, to which he was induced gent. alluded to was Mr. Wilberforce. by what had fallen from the hon. gent. He was afraid, he said, their names were opposite. He had said that he thought left out, because they had dared to vote the committee was very objectionable from against him on a late memorable question. the mode in which it had been balloted He exhorted those gentlemen, however, to for, and that all the members might be go on, and one day or other the country supposed to be partially inclined. He would most assuredly reward them. He did not wish to go into a committee con- said, if the hon. and learned gent. (the cerning which such impressions prevailed, Master of the Rolls) was always quibbling and he thought it necessary to ask whe-in another place as he was here, he would ther the hon. gent. had any objection to not give a farthing for his arguments. him? Mr. Canning complained that his right Mr. Whitbread assured the hon. gentle-hon. and learned friend (the Master of the |