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against its repetition. Your petitioners beg|tion of considerable importance, which, toleave to state to your hon.' house, that a civil gether with the other motions noticed oni suit against lord Melville and Mr. Trotter, several interesting subjects, would, perhaps, unaccompanied by criminal prosecution, fatigue gentlemen so much as to render it would be infinitely short of the public hopes, inconvenient to have his motion brought because it is so of public justice. It is not forward on Friday. He thought this was a the refunding of money that, of itself, is of fit time to state for the information of genreal consequence to the nation; it is the in. tlemen, the substance, if not the precise fliction of an exemplary vengeance upon words, of the motion which he should subproved and powerful delinquents. It is the mit to the house on the subject. His momanifestation to the whole world that high tion would be, that the house should resolve criminals are not above the reach of punish- into a committee of the whole house, to ment; and that the corrupt or wanton vio consider of all the matters contained in the lators of law shall feel the strength of its petition, and whether it would be expedient arm.-Above all things we intreat your hon. that all, or any of the prayers it contained, house not to permit the public feeling to be should be complied with, or whether a midsported with; and in the formatiou of in- dle course should be adopted for granting quiries similar to the naval commission, that some, and deferring the decision upon the you

will take care that the power constituted rest of their claims; or whether or not some be equal to its professed objects; both as re- collateral means of meeting the wishes of the lating to the vigor of the authority, and to petitioners might not be eligible. the integrity of those who are to put it in Dr. Duigenan declared himself hostile to execution; for we submit to your hon. the prayer of the petition, and should, therehouse whether, if any thing can be worse fore, oppose the motion of the hon. gent. than a deep-rooted, wide-spreading system [COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.)– The Chanof abuse and peculation in the management cellor of the Erchequer moved the order of of public money, it would not be the insti- the day for going into a committee of sup. tution of a system of revision, in its nature a ply; and on his motiors

, also, the extraorburlesque upon investigation, and in its re- dinaries of the army, the expences of the sult a mockery of justice. To all these volunteers in Great Britain and Ireland, and points we beg the best attention of your hon. the deficiency of the consolidated fund, were house. We beseech you to pursue with referred to the said committee. The house effect what you began with so much honour. having resolved into a committee, the folWe intreat you not to relax in your efforts lowing sums were voted: till you have brought lord Melville to con- To make good the excess of the dign punishment, and given to all who shall extraordinary services of the be found to have committed similar crimes, army over the estimates voted a signal demonstration, that, in the repre. Extraordinary services of the army

£668,803 15 3 sentatives of the people, instead of abettors

for the present year

3,000,000 0 @ of their iniquities, they will find only the Tu complete the sum of five milfaithful guardians of the nation, and the lions granted out of the monies zealous vindicators of the laws."Ordered

that should arise from the con

solidated fund of Great Britain to lie on the table.

for the year 1804 [ROMAN CATHOLIC Petition.}-Mr. To desray the expences of the vo,

3,049,488 15 3 Fox observed, that as the day which he had Junteers in Great Britain and fixed for submitting a motion to the house Ircland

1,600,000.00 on the subject of the petition of the Catho- Mr. Johnstone said, he did not rise to oblic body of Ireland was so near, he deemed ject to this resolution; but, as emigrants it proper to take this opportunity of stating were included in this sum, he submitted it the reasons on which he proposed to defer to the committee, whether it would not be that motion from the 10th to Monday the better that the money voted for emigrants 13th inst. One reason was, that many gen- should be a distinct vote for that purpose, tlemen interested in the discussion were instead of being brought into the army'exnow in Ireland, and could not attend on traordinaries? There was another circumFriday. This was a sufficient reason, but it stance which struck him, and that was, he was not the principal one. Another was, observed, an article of charge of somewhat the importance of the business which was to about 5001. for the expences of creating sir 'occupy the attention of the house next week. Brooke Watson a baronet. He thought, if His hon. friend (Mr. Whitbread) had a mo- honours were heaped on a man in the sitis

last year


ation of the hon. baronet, it was rather ex- | restored, every thing would be much cheaptraordinary that the public should be asked er, and the country would derive innume. to pay for them.

rable benefits from it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that Sir J. Newport said it was much to be as the baronetage was given that gentleman wished that the old standard was restored, for his services in the army, it was therefore but that would require some considerable brought into the army extraordinaries, it be time; and, as a large quantity of paper had ing always usual, when that honour was been lately taken out of circulation, it beconferred for services to pay the expences. came absolutely necessary something of this As to the emigrants, this was a charge for kind should be adopted. With respect to such emigrants only as have served in our the assimilation of the coinage of the two armies, and are paid abroad in order to save countries, it was a subject that required the expence of coming to this country. This great consideration, and therefore necessary was absolutely necessary, when foreigners, this bill should pass as speedily as possible. who had served us, had no other means of Mr. Lee said the hon, member who made gaining a livelihood in this country, and the the objection to this bill, most certainly was army extraordinaries were the most conve- not acquainted with the situation of Ireland, nient head of service under which they or he would not argue as he had done. could be classed. The resolutions were Silver notes, which were the only circulathen read, and severally agreed to. tion for making payment of small sums,

(IRISH Silver Tokens Bill.)-On were now drawn out of circulation, and it the question for going into a committee on was necessary something should be substithe Irish Silver Tokens bill;

tuted in their stead, as there is now no cirMr. Magens requested the attention of culating medium for small payments. He the house while he made a few observations was, however, one of those who did not on this bill, which, he thought, would be as think the quantity of paper that had been properly made in this as in any other stage in circulation was injurious to Ireland; the of it. He observed, that in a conversation fact had never been proved, and till it was which passed in that house, some short time so, he should differ from those who held that since, it appeared that the rate of exchange opinion. being. so much against Ireland was in con- Mr. Foster said very little remained for sequence of the very large quantity of pa- him to say on the subject. There was at per that was in circulation in that part of present great distress in Ireland for want of the empire. These tokens, ås they were small silver change, and as it is only to concalled, were, in his opinion, very little, if at tinue so long as the restriction of the bank all, better than paper; and as they would from paying in specie continues, the hon. be subject to great depreciation, he saw gent, who made this objection, need have very little benefit to be derived from no great apprehension. It will be extremely this measure. He thought the only way to convenient to the people of Ireland, and he serve Ireland effectually would be to re- hoped therefore the bill would have the apstore a real silver coinage directly under the probation of the house. royal authority, and thereby to assimilate Mr. Johnstone said he doubted whether the coinages of the two countries as nearly these pieces of silver would continue long in as possible. For these reasons he could not circulation, aș, at 5s. 5d, each, people would approve the bill.

find an advantage of eight and a half per Mr. Princep said, he thought some limi- cent and would send them to this country tation should be put to these tokens, and to make their payments, and thereby save hoped a standard coinage would soon take so much in the rate of exchange. place.

Mr. Foster said, these tokens are to issue Mr. Rose said, the silver tokens were at 5s. 5d. but will be ten per cent. under tokens above the value of the price of dol- the value of Spanish dollars, and if you add lars, and therefore he thought there was no eight and a quarter, the difference of exfear of the apprehensions entertained by the change, it would be nearly 19 per cent. and hon. gent. who spoke last but one. It had when exchange is very high, it would be been for a long time in contemplation to nearly 25 per cent.; when to these are admake a standard coinage, but there were ded the inconvenience of carriage, and the certain obstacles to it which at present could wearing of the silver by friction, there would not be removed.

be thought very little danger of their being Mr, Magens said, if the ald standard were sent to this country.


Mr. l'ansittart said a few words in favour (to express our sense of the very obliging of the bill, and the house went into the manner in which you have been pleased to committee, in which the clauses were read convey the resolution of the house. We and agreed 10.-Adjourned.

have the honour to be, sir, your most obedient, humble servants, Charles Morice

Police, Ewan Law, John Ford, Henry NiMonday, May 6.

cholls, Wm. Mackworth Praed."-On the [MINUTES. -The bishop of Oxford pre- motion of Dr. Duigenan, the Irish First sented a petition from the freeholders of Ox- Fruits Bill was read a second time, and orfordshire, praying that the restraints upon the dered to be committed on Wednesday.catholics inight not be repealed, which was Mr. Calcraft presented the Declaration of ordered to lie on the table.-Lord Mulgrave sir Francis Burdett

, which was read by the reminded their lordships that they stood clerk. It contained a statement of the summoned for to-morrow upon a notice progress of the poll at the late Middlesex which he gave before the recess, relative to election, and concluded with intimating the one of their standing orders, that, which hon. baronet's intention not to defend his enabled any peer to nove the house into a seat. (A copy of the declaration will be committee whenever be desired it. The found in p. 211 of this volume, where it more he had considered that order, the was inadvertently inserted.] That clause of more he was convinced it ought not to re- the act of parliament was then read, in main upon the books of the house; and be pursuance to the provisions of which the should therefore, to-morrow, move to ex- declaration was formed. After a few words punge it.—Lord Mulgrave said that a noble from the secretary at war and Mr. H. friend of his, who had undertaken to bring Thornton, stating their disapprobation of a forward a clause to be added to the Univer- great deal of irrelevant matter in the declasity Advou son bill, had not yet been able to ration, the 7th of June was the day fixed coinplete it; and he, trerefore, wished that for acting upon it. the further consideration of the 'bill might (DISMISSAL op LORD MELVILLE)be postponed till Wednesday. After a short Mr. Whitbrend rose, and observed, that conversation between the bishop of Oxford, whatever motives might, in the course of the bishop of St. Asapli

, the lord chancellor, the business he had undertaken, have been and lord Mulgrave, the order for the com- imputed to him by the opposers of the mea. mittee sitting this day was discharged, and sure, he presumed there were none who fixed for Wednesday:- Adjourned. would suppose he had not, during the whole

course of the proceeding, been impressed

with feelings of the greatest anxiety. He Mondity, Vry 6.

confessed that the feelings of anxiety he [MINUTES.]– The Speaker acquainted had felt, in different stages of the discussions the house; that he had received from the that had taken place, were not to be comCommissioners of Naval Enquiry, the fol- pared with those which he now experienced. lowing letter, in return to the thanks of this He had now come to a point, and standing house of Thursday last._" Office of Naval on which he trembled, not from any doubt Enquiry, Great George Street, 4th May 1805. of the propriety of the measure he should -Sir, We have had the honour to receive propose, but from his apprehensions as to your letter of the 3d of this month, trans- the course the house of commons would initting to us a copy of the resolution of adopt. There were two paths open before the house of commons of the 2d instant. them. The one, as it appeared to himn, It is most gratifying to us to learn, that our led by the ways of justice to the immortal conduct as Commissioners of Naval Enquiry honour and renown of the house of com. has been considered by the house as de- mons; the other, if they were led by misServing a vote of their approbation; a tes- taken clemency to pursue it, led to the distimony which is justly esteemed one of the repute of the house of commons, and highest honours that can be conferred on eventually to the detriment of the public persons employed in the service of the interest. If it had been immediately propublici we receive this mark of distinction posed, in consequence of the resolutions with the greatest respect and thankfulness; which he had the honour to submit on the and we request that you will have the sth of April, that an address should have goodness to communicate to the house been presented to his majesty, praying that These our sentiments. -We also beg leave lord Melville might be dismissed from all


for ever


the places held by him under the crown, (communication to make, had not only said and from the royal presence and councils, on a former day that his name was not struck

off the privy council book, but that he saw The Chancellor of the Exchequer inter- no reason for advising his majesty to erase rupted the hon. gent. for the purpose of it. Under these circumstances, a committee speaking to order. He really had understood had been appointed to examine further into that the hon. gent. had given notice of his the matters of the tenth report, as excluintention to move to take into consideration sively as could be of the conduct of lord his majesty's answer, and he conceived Melville, and a civil prosecution had been that he would have begun his observations ordered against his lordship and Mr. Trotwith reference to that object. He had a ter. A right hon. gent. had proposed, that communication to make to the house, which it should be turned into a criminal prosecuhe thought would anticipate what the hon. tion. In this situation the country stoodgent. had to say; he therefore wished to that the house had decided that lord Melput it to his candour, whether he would ville, not accidentally or once, but during afford him an opportunity.

the course of a long administration, had Mr. ll’hitbrend said, he meant to have been guilty of a breach of his duty, and a concluded by moving, that his majesty's gross violation of the law, and yet no puanswer should be taken into consideration. nishment had been inflicted in consequence Whatever communication the right hon. of this decision. He knew it had been gent. had to make, he thought it would contended that lord Melville had been pucome with more propriety after the motion. nished, and appeals had been made to the He apprehended that if he had made a house whether the punishment had not been motion on the morning after the night the sufficiently severe. He could not easily resolutions were proposed and acquiesced forget the impressive words of a right hon. in, that lord Melville should have been dis- gent, (the master of the rolls) over against missed from his offices and his majesty's him, of his feelings and countenance, comcouncils and presence, that there would not pelling sympathy, when he asked whether have been one dissentient voice. He ap- lord Melville had not been sufficiently puprehended, that if lord Melville had not nished ? He wished he could borrow a been a member of the house of peers, but little of that right hon. gent.'s accuracy of merely of the house of commons, and he expression to call upon the house to perhad moved for the dismissal of him as a form what, if it did not perform, he should member of the house of commons, that contend lord Melville would not be puthere would not have been a dissentient nished. If humiliation ; if voluntary devoice. In the course of this business he gradation; if the resignation of high emhad shaped his conduct so as to obtain the ployments under the crown, such as lord suffrages and support of every independent Melville thought himself capable of filling; member of parliament; and, in so doing, if the feelings of a man who had held great he conceived he had strictly conformed to official situations for many years ; if a brohis duty, and promoted the welfare of the ken and contrite heart, he flanime, fasces public. The second day after the resolu--if ihese were to be considered a punishtions passed, he had moved an address to ment, then it was possible lord Melville his majesty, that lord Melville should be might have been punished sufficiently. In removed from his councils and presence, that case, his punishment was as far superior and deprived of all offices held by him to any the house could indict, as the hand under the crown. It appeared on that oc- that inflicted it was above the power of casion to have been the sense of the house, mortals. It was the duty of the house to that it would be better the resolutions should take care that others were not betrayed into be carried to the foot of the throne; but the same errors, and that men in the situahe was of opinion the consequence of that ation of lord Melville should know, that if measure was not precisely what would have they acted as he had done they would subtaken place if the house had gone up with ject themselves to degradation. It was also the address. The consequences he had incumbent on the house to take care that hoped for had not taken place. He had equal justice was done to all, and that when resigned his office at the admiralty, but his others were writhing under punishment, name had not been struck out of the list of delinquents of greater magnitude were not the privy council. The right hon. gent. spared. The sensations of shame were who had just intimated that he had some not confined to men in high stations; but a common clerk, detected in a fraudulent act, majesty's privy counsellors, his majesty has felt equally with the highest peer : his feel- acceded to this advice, and that erasure will, ings, too, were accompanied with the loss of on the first day that a council is held, také character, and the loss of character was at place. Having said thus much, I shall, with tended with the loss of bread. With re- the permission of the House, say a few gard to such a person, it was highly proba- words on the circumstances under which I ble, that even if the law was not followed tormerly resisted this proposition, and those up, that his wife, children, relatives, and under which I have felt myself bound to dependants, would be reduced to a state of yield to it. The hon. gent. has thought misery. Such an accumulation of distress proper to allude to the discussion which was of itself punishment enough; but justice took place on the day previous to the reand the law must have their victim. He cess; and he says, that on that occasion, therefore, in the name of minor delinquents, I declared that nothing then appeared to in the name of the public, in the name of me which called for my advising his mathe representative body of England, and in jesty to erase the name of lord Melville the name of the former vote of the house, from the list of privy counsellors. I becalled for that which was but bare simple lieve, sir, it is in the recollection of the justice on lord Melville. He deprecated house, that a motion similar to that now the injury the character of the parliament brought forward, was produced by the hon. of 1805 would sustain, if, after the detec- gent. on the day to which he has alluded. tion of lord Melville's guilt, it should ap- On that occasion I did state that the motion pear that parliament had stopped in its pu- appeared to me altogether unnecessary, since nishment, and that he had been suffered to lord Melville had resigned his official situaremain a privy counsellor, particularly after tion, and all prospect or hope of his return the proofs against him had been so com- to office was extinct, as long as the resoluplete; when instead of any denial of the tions of the 8th of April remained in full charge by lord Melville,' habens confi- force. Unless the house varied their decitentem reum, he had given evidence against sion, that determination was an insuperable himself. He proceeded to infer the odium bar to the noble lord's return to power. it would cast on the ministers of the At that time it did not appear to me to be the day if it should appear they had endea- sense of the house that such a motion should voured 10 protect such a delinquent. He be persisted in, or that it was at all necessary highly censured that advice which had dic- after the resolutions of censure on a former tated the answer of his majesty to the evening, Many gentlemen who concurred sheriff of London, when they waited upon in those resolutions thought that the wound his majesty with the address of the common which had been inflicted should not be agcouncil. After a few further observations, gravated by any unnecessary circumstances he moved, that his majesty's answer should of severity ; that when the justice of the be taken into consideration ; observing, public was satisfied, the feelings of the indithat he meant afterwards to move an ad-vidual ought not to be outraged. Even dress to his majesty, praying him to order several gentlemen on the other side of the the name of lord Melville to be erased house did not seem to wish that the motion from the privy council, and to dismiss him should be pushed to a division. The mofrom his presence for ever.

tion was accordingly withdrawn, and in the The Chancellor of the Exchequer-Before, room of it the house agreed to lay the resir, the motion is put from the chair, I think solutions before the throne, and to await it necessary for me to make a very few ob- the ultimate decision of his majesty. By servations, which appear to me of such a foļlowing this course, it was imagined that nature as will supersede the necessity of the same result would be obtained without agitating the question at greater length, on wounding the feelings of the noble lord, the present occasion. When I interrupted who was already sufficiently afflicted by the the hon. gent. it was for the purpose of general decision of the house. This step then saying, that I had a communication to make being taken, it did not strike me that it was to the house, which might probably render at all expected that it was my duty especially his motion unnecessary; that communica- to advise his majesty to erase the name of țion is, sir, that the object which the hon. lord Melville from the list of his privy coungent. has in view, is already accomplished. sellors. If I had conceived this to be the

have felt it my duty to advise the erasure general wish of the house, I should, unof lord Melville's name from the list of his questionably, have bowed to it, but not


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