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had made. In his opinion, that hon. I considered the civil or the military serofficer, instead of incurring the censure, vices of that noble lord, the house would ought rather to receive a vote of thanks ultimately find him entitled to their warmfroin the house.

est thanks; and he could not help be. Mr. David Scott meant at first to have lieving, that the right hon. gent. wished objected to the committee, as no case had in his heart that the navy was in the sibeen made out; but on' the grounds on taation in which it was when his noble which the motion now rested, he would friend retired from office. vote for it. When he was chairman of the Sir Home Popham said, he should be very * East India company, he had correspond glad to leave the comparative scurrility of ed with sir Home Popham, whose con- the two pamphlets to the determination duct had made the most favourable impres of the committee. sion on his mind ; that impression had Mr. W. Dickenson jun. reprobated the been increased by the perusal of the pa- keeping of the gallant officer in a state of pers on the table. Serious observations suspence for such a length of time. Why bad been made on the expenditure of was it that sir home Popham had not been oakum and other trifes, while the saving tried by a court martial ? Or why had of 27,0001. per month in the reduction of not a civil or criminal prosecution been tonnage was overlooked.

instituted against him ?-Because, in that Admiral Markham declared, that the case, facts must have been distinctly propamphlet mentioned by the gallant baro- ved ; because a jury must have been conuet certainly did not proceed from what vinced of his guilt before they returned a bad been termed lord St. Vincent's board verdict against him. Instead of this, the of admiralty. Whether his hon. friend conduct of the hon. baronet had been subwished to assert any share in the manu- mitted to the consideration of the comfacture of it, he did not know, but for missioners of naval enquiry, who very fairly himself, he utterly disclaimed it: the first declared that it was not a fit subject for time he had ever heard of it was last No- their investigation, but for that of a court vember at Portsmouth. The scurrility of inartial alone. But why had it been rethis pamphlet had been insisted on, but ferred to the commissioners of naval ensurely it was not more scurrilous than the quiry? Because that was a court dilatory pamphlet antecedently published by the or summary, as they thought proper. Behon. baronet himself, in which he had in- cause that was a court in which a man, dulged in observations calculated to de- contrary to all the principles of British fame and disgrace one of the highest pu- jurisprudence, was expected to crimipate blic boards in the country. The hon. ad- himself, and if he declined doing so, he miral read several passages from the law was stigmatized with the name of the hero opinion annexed to sir Home Popham's of the fifth clause ! narrative of the proceedings between him Admiral Markham said it was not a fit and the navy and admiralty boards, in business to go to a court martial. There support of his statement, and contended, was such a complicature of charges, and that if a pamphlet, accusing an individual such a mixture of different matters, that of improper conduct, was unjustifiable, one a court martial would not have been equal of the same tendency, by an officer, against to its full and adequate investigation. This a public board, was still more so. The was at least his own opinion, and on that hon, admiral called on the right hon. gent. he had acted. (the chancellor of the exchequer) to consi- Mr. Sheridan begged to trouble, the der, whether or not, by the measures he house with a very few words. The hon. was now pursuing, he might not destroy gent. who spoke last but one had said he that service which it was his duty to up- would not say any thing against the naval hold. The liberty of the subject, to which commissioners, and had immediately afhe had alluded was a very ticklish point, terwards styled them a court which might and he cautioned him how he allowed it to acquit or delay, according to their capribe agitated. He warned him, lest by ces, and that they might wish for persons persevering in the system which had been to criminate themselves. This was a kind adopted, the whole navy should go to ruin. of language he could not bear, and thought His noble friend had persevered against a no member ought to use, when the comhost of enemies in endeavouring to im- mission had been renewed, and the same prove the state of the navy. Whether they powers invested in their hands by the house,

as they had before. If the hon. gent. The should propose the committee to be thought they were a court acting accord- chusen by ballot. ing to caprice, or wishing persons to cri- Mr. Kinnaird remonstrated against this minate themselves, he should in a man- proceeding. The right hon, gent, had ly way have come forward, and stated such himselí named a committee in the early facis as strong objections to the renewal part of the evening respecting the India of the commission, and not at this time business. deal out iisituations against hon. gentle- ' The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, men who had acted with so much zeal, that it did not follow such was to be the fidelity, diligence, and inflexible integrity, invariable mode of appointment. There in the great trust reposed in them, as to ac- was a considerable difference between a quire most deservedly the universal appro- committee, such as that the hon. gent. had bation and applause of the whole country. alluded to, and one to which matter that

Mi. W. Dickenson jun. said he did not went to criminate an individual was to be mean to cast any retlections on the com- referred. missioners of Daval enquiry; on the con- Mr. Kinnaird declined dividing the trary, he had said, that they recommended house on the subject. the trial by court martial, of which he The Speaker observed, that it would be approved.

necessary, for the sake of form, to propose Mr. Kinnaird, however induced be might the first name on Mr. Kinnaird's list, be, would not give way to the temptation which happening to be that of Mr. Canof making that statement on the subject ning, produced a considerable deal of which he certainly was completely prepared laughter. to make. In reply to the accusation of The Chancellor of the Exchequer remarkdelay that had been brought forward ed that he certainly could have no objecagainst him, he said, that not being aware tion to his right hon. friend, although for in the first instance of the extent of the the sake of the general principle, he should papers that it would be necessary to call be obliged to negative his appointment. for, it was impossible for him to fix a time Lord Temple could sec no other rule for for referring ihem to a committee. He the couduct of his right hon, relation opasked the hon, gent. in what part of the posite, except that when he himself chose papers was to be found what he had in vain to nominate, he thought it right; but if looked for, the wish expressed by the com- any person on the other side proposed it, missioners of naval enquiry, to decline the he found a ballot the only mode.The investigation of the gallant baronet's con- motion was negatived. And the chancellor duct, and to refer it to a court martial. of the exchequer moved, that the number The observations made by the right hon. of the committee be twenty-one, and that gent. opposite, on the impressing of Mr. they be chosen by ballot; both which mo. Bartholomew, were extremely unfair, as tions were agreed to.-Adjourned. they implicated the conduct of a noble lord, which, he was convinced, when it came to be scrutinized, would be found to

Thursday, May 9. be in the highest degree praiseworthy and honourable.

The house sat in a committee of privi. Mr. W. Dickenson jun. had not stated leges from five o'clock till eight, relative to that the wish of the commissioners of naval


from the house of commons

message enquiry to decline the investigation of sir respecting lord viscount Melville, during H. Popham's conduct, and to refer it to a

which time no strangers were admitted. court inartial, existed in the papers before Prayers were then read, and after forwardthe house. It had been mentioned by an

ing a few private bills the house adjourped. hon. baronet at the head of that commission, and confirmed by a conversation he

HOUSE OF COMMONS. had with him on the subject that morning.

Thursday, May 9. The motion as amended by the chancellor

[MINUTES.] On the motion of Mr. Ley. of the exchequer was then put and carried. cester, it was ordered that a message be

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, as he sent to the lords, requesting their lordships saw the hon. gent. was prepared with a to permit lord Harrowby to attend and list of names, took the opportunity of in-give evidence before the committee of timating, before he heard them read, that naval enquiry: -The Irish land partition


bill passed through a committee, and was session house, and had to carry their wito ordered to be reported to-morrow.—The nesses so far, and to pay their expences, ballot for a comınittee on the charges which rendered it a great hardship on all, against sir H. Popham, was put off till and actually precluded many from pursuto-morrow, on the suggestion of Mr. Kin- ing their just claims. He thought, therenaird, as several members did not know fore, the bill would prove very advantagethat it was to have come on this day.-Mr. ous to the country, and as such would vote Shaw presented a petition from the cor- for the second reading. Mr. Lee said, poration of the city of Dublin, against magistrates were allowed to try causes of the Roman catholics' claims. Ordered to 51. for wages, and why not for common be laid on the table.-On the motion of occurrences ?-The bill was read a second Mr. Fane, it was ordered that the late time, and ordered to be committed tosheriffs of the county of Middlesex, be tomorrow. morrow brought to the bar, in order to [Petition FROM BERKSHIRE RESPECTtheir being discharged.- The Chancellor ING THE Tenth NAVAL REPORT.] A peof the Exchequer moved, that the order tition of the gentry, clergy, and freeholders, for the house to-morrow going into a com- of the county of Berks, assembled at a mittee on the bill for the continuance of the public meeting for the purpose of taking naval commissioners'powers, be discharged, into consideration the propriety of adopt. and that a new order be made for Tuesday ing resolutions in consequence of the decinext. Ordered.—On the motion of the sion of the house on the tenth report of same right hon. gent. it was ordered, that the commissioners of naval enquiry, was the committee on the bill for authorizing presented to the house, by „Mr. Charles enquiry into other departments, be put off Dundas, and read; setting forth, “ that to the above-mentioned day also.—The the petitioners have read with indignation house resolved itself into a committee on the intimation in the votes of the house, of the Irish election regulation bill, in which the abuses discovered in the said report; several verbal amendments were made. and they share the national exultation at Upon the house being resumed, the chair- the resolutions of the house of the 8th and man reported progress, and obtained leave 10th of April last; and the petitioners to sit again on Wednesday next.-The observe with gratitude that the house inreport of the committee on the Irish stamp tend to prosecute further enquiry to the duties act was brought up. The resolu- detection of all abuses which may exist in tions were read and agreed to, and a bill any other department of the state, and ordered conformably to the tenour of the that they have ordered bills to be prepared resolutions. Mr. Foster presented copies for that purpose; and the petitioners en. of the letlers patent of the lords conmis. tertain a confident hope; that in framning sioners of his majesty's treasury in Ire- the above-named bills, the house will careland. Ordered to be laid on the table.- fully provide that the power constituted The wine duty bill, and the slate duty bill will be equal to the professed object, both were read a second time, and ordered to as to the authority to be conferred, and the be referred to a committee to-morrow.- integrity of those by whom it is to be On the order of the day for the second executed; and that the house will attend reading of the Irish small debt bill, Mr. particularly to obviate a repetition of the May objected to the bill, on the ground of obstacles raised by persons in office to inits throwing too large a quantity of busi- vestigation; for the petitioners submit, ness on private gentlemen, acting as magis- that if any thing can be worse than a deeptrates, who had already as much as they rooted system of abuse and peculation in knew what to do with; and as these small the management of the public money, it debts were recoverable at the quarter ses- would be the institution of

systein of sions. Sir J. Newport supported the bill revision, in its nature a burlesque upon inas highly necessary. He said that the re-vestigation, and in its result a mockery of covery of small debts was very precarious justice; and that the petitioners conceive, and uncertain at present, as it was attend that the most effectual method to check ed with considerable expence. Persons abuses, will be to punish already detected might now recover to the amount of 51. delinquency; and they therefore hope the · before the magistrates at the quarter ses- house will be deferred by no considerations sions; but many of them in the different from pursuing with effect what they have counties lived 15 or 20 miles from the begun with so much honour; and that they will not relax in their efforts till they considerations to which I shall have the have brought all persons concerned in the honour to call your lordships' most serious misapplication of public monies to condign attention, may be temperately, chispassionpunishment, and given to the world a sig- ately, and impartially discussed. Such, nal demonstration, that in the representa- my lords, is my anxious wish, and such, tives of the people will be found, not the I am persuaded, is the earnest wish and abettors of iniquity, but the faithful guar- prayer of the petitioners themselves. They dians of the nation, and the zealous vindi-have felt the operation of party violence cators of the law."

and party heat. They know, that from

party violence and party beat they have HOUSE OF LORDS.

much to fear, and certainly nothing to Friday, May 10.

hope; and if, on this occasion, they look [MINUTES.] Mr. Leycester, chairman with confidence to better hopes and of the select committee of the house of brighter prospects, it is because they are commons on the tenth naval report, at- confident they address a body of men in tended by several members, presented at whose minds party heat and party violence the bar a message from that house, request- will not be suffered to have the smallest ing that lord Harrowby might be per- influence. With respect to myself, allow mitted to attend the said committee. The me, my lords, to assure you, that I know lord chancellor, having previously put the myself to be utterly incapable of the wickquestion, desired the messengers to be edness (for wickedness it would be) of called in, and informed them, that their speaking with party views or feelings, while lordships would send an answer to the discussing the interests, pay, the rights of house of commons, by messengers of their millions of British subjects, and on a own.-. Mr. Alexander brought up from topic on which the peace and unanimity the commons the Irish Loan bill, the Irish of the empire may eventually depend. Í Bank, and the Irish Post Roads bills, which might venture to appeal to your lordships, were severally read a first time.

and to every man who hears me, whether, (ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITION.] Lord if this were a question likely to conduce Grenville moved the order of the day for to views of such a nature, or if the indivitaking into consideration the petition of dual who is addressing you could suffer the Roman Catholics of Ireland. The pe- party views to influence his conduct, all tition was then read by the clerk, and will those motives which usually operate on be found in p. 97 of the present volume. men's minds, would not lead to a line of After the petition had been read,

conduct precisely different. The person Lord Grenville rose, and addressed the who undertakes to bring this great queshouse as follows :- My lords, I was anxi- tion before you, is well aware that he has ous that your lordships should hear this to encounter numerous and powerful enepetition read through previous to my offer- mies; that he must subject himself to ing any observations on the subject of it, much prejudice, much clamour, and much both on account of the many weighty ar- misrepresentation; and that he must in. guments which it contains in favour of that cur the imputation of indifference, perhaps which the petitioners humbly pray your of hostility, to the civil and religious establordships for, as well as for the strain of lishments of the country; establishments, loyalty which pervades it, and the respect the security and perpetuation of which ful, moderate, and temperate language are the dearest objects of his heart. All in which those arguments and that prayer these difficulties he must encounter; and are couched. When the petition was first in return what has he to expect? The sapresented, I expressed an earnest hope, tisfaction of having discharged a great puband such seemed to be the wish of all your lic duty, namely, that of bringing before lordships, that whatever opinions indivi- your lordships a great and national quesdual peers may entertain upon the subject, tion, and the consciousness that, whatever that the matter of the petition should be may happen hereafter, he will not have to temperately, dispassionately, and impar- reproach himself with any of the evils which tially discussed. "I was then happy to per- may result from the rejection of the peticeive such a temper and such an under- tion, if rejection should be its fate.This, standing prevail; and I now beg leave my lords, is not all that I have to remark again to express my most anxious wish, upon this part of the subject. I consider that this night the important subject and that it will be a great evil and misfortune

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to the empire if the prayer of this petition mean the fact, that you have, in the united is not granted; but that misfortune I hold kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, a as bearing no comparison in extent with population consisting of 3 million accordthe mischiefs wbich inevitably must have ing to the lowest, and of 5 million accordo ensued, it no opportunity had been allowed ing to the bighest computation, of fellow for a fair and full discussion of this mo- subjects, who have been brought up and mentous question. It will, I am sure, educated in the catholic religion, who prow be respectfully entertained and delibe- tess that religion, who are attached to it, rately discussed. The question will be and whom therefore you must consider, for placed ou such grounds, that, whatever every purpose of government, as persons to the decision of this night may be, no man be treated as Roman catbolics. When this will go away without the fullest convic- question is brought before you, you are not tion that the day cannot be far distant to consider it as we in this country are apt when the great and important objects of to look at the Roman catholics, as a body the petition will be attained. But, my of men, however respectable, small in numa lords, if instead of laying it before parlia-ber, and forming only an exception to the ment, those who brought it forward bad general mass of population; but you are to gone back and told those from whom they consider, that in that part of the united -had received it, that there could not be kingdom called Ireland, three-fourths of found one individual ready and willing to the population are of the description of present their petition; that not only the Roman catholics; that it is impossible for voice of parliament was against them, but you, in taking any one single step towards that the doors of parliament were shut to providing for the exigencies of government, their complaints--if such had unhappily the happiness of the people, or the various been the case, I ask every considerate and matters committed to the legislature, ever temperate man, what must have been the to lose sight of the fact that three-fourths of impression on the minds of that body on the people of Ireland are Roman catholics, whose behalf I am addressing you—what and must be provided for as Roman caother impression could there possibly have tholics. If I am asked, whether, supposing been, but that of absolute despair ? What a man could regulate the thing by a wish, would it have been short of shewing the it would be desirable that the unity which great majority of the people of Ireland, we have established in government should that all the expectations which were held prevail in matters of faith? I have no hesiout to them by the union were to be com- tation in saying, that it would be a happy pletely frustrated? The effect which has thing indeed if we were all united in our been produced on their minds by receiving religious as well as in our political and their petition is, that they are convinced constitutional opinions. But we are to conthey will have an impartial parliament, sider the question not as we wish it, but as it worked upon by no local prejudices, to con- is, as it has been since the revolution, and sider their wishes with all the attention due as it is likely to continue beyond any pem to so numerous and respectable a class of riod of legislation wecan contemplate. This our fellow-subjects. I have said thus much being the case, I hope there is no man who, in order to vindicate myself, and explain merely because he wishes there was not the reasons why I am clearly of opinion, this body, flatters himself that he


shut that this petition, if rejected, would have his eyes to the population of three-fourths of been attended with the inost fatal conse- the country, and content himself with saya quences; and also to vindicate the petitio-ing, “ I will provide for that which belongs ners themselves, for the solicitude they to the protestants, but I will take no coghave expressed, that their petition may be nizance of the other larger proportion of respectfully submitted to your lordships' the population.” I hope no man entertains consideration.--And now, my lords, how such an opinion. If he does, I wish bim shall I begin to lay before you this grave, to cast his eyes back to any period of the extensive, and most important question ? history of this country, and to point out My lords, I would begin with that which is what nioment there was in which the disthe system, the fact, and foundation of tinction of religious faith, as it regarded the whole proceeding, but which, simply the concerns of the large population of caand plainly, appears to me hardly to have tholics, did not form, I will not say a leadmade the least impression on the minds ing circumstance, but the leading circumof those who are averse to the petition ; Istance in the situation of the country; and


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