rituous liquors? and, last of all, are you made use of the pretext of the catholic ready to sacrifice the whole protestant and religion, and of fanatical priests, as the respectable catholic property of the country, best fire-brands to throw among the people by the abolition of rents, and the perpetual to rouse them to rebellion ; that their grant of their farms, to the present occu- objects were the establishment of a republic pants? Such are the terms, I know, have independent of Great-Britain, and con been lately offered to the Irish peasantry nected with, but not dependant upon by French emissaries, and if you mean France. A great proportion of the people to bid against them with any chance of in three of the provinces being catholics, of success, you must not be outdone in the course the rebel ranks were filled with men magnificence of your offers.-But the noble of that persuasion.-The noble lord is baron says, refuse the request of the peti- wrong in stating, that where the rebel tioners, and you give a handle to the armies were strongest, it was in counties disaffected to work on the passions of altogether catholic. The county of Wexthe multitude. I agree with the noble ford possessed great numbers of protestants, baron, it will do so; and this, my lords, yet it was there the rebel troops were is the great objection to the stirring the in the greatest force; it was there the present subject. If granted, it will not greatest enormities were committed; it obtain your object, namely, the tranquil-was there I witnessed catholic priests bearing lity of Ireland; if refused, it may and pro- in their hands the sacred banner of the bably will do much mischief. The bringing cross, the emblem of the mildest of reliforward the petition can do no good; it gions; it was there I saw them lead the may do much harm. What is the reason infuriated rabble to pillage, to destruction of bringing forward the petition at this of property, and to the murder of the aged, moment? Why did not the noble lord the infirm, women, children, in short, bring it forward in 1801? I give him cre- what was most distinguished, what was dit for not doing so; the country was in lowest in the community. I will not shock danger; it was no time to agitate a question your lordships' ears by the disgusting recithat might create divisions and animosities. tal. But the noble lord says it arose out Why, if essential to the well-being of the of the unhappy circumstances of the state, was it not brought forward during country. I profess I do not understand the interval of peace? Will it be answered what the noble lord means; but if he that the public opinion was then against wishes to convey the idea that the rebellion it? Has that opinion since changed? I was produced by any oppression of the firmly believe it still remains unaltered.-people, I must beg leave, with great respect The noble lord says, the rebellion of 1798 to him, positively to deny it.-But the was not a catholic rebellion, and therefore noble baron says, that the influence of no impediment to the concession demanded. I have not heard any one state that rebellion to have been a catholic rebellion; many of its leaders were protestants, or professed to be so. The present general of division in the service of his imperial and royal majesty the emperor of France and king of Italy, was ordained a deacon of the established church of Ireland by the father of the individual who has now the honour to address you. Others, like Emmett, were professed protestants, but were real disciples of the modern French school both in religion and in politics. I had the honour to be one of the secret committee of the house of lords of Ireland, before which those gentlemen made their confessions of treason. When asked, whether the establishment of the catholic religion was one of their principal objects, they smiled and said, that such an idea never once entered into their heads; that they certainly

the pope over the priesthood can be no objection; he asks, do we think the pope is more hostile to us now than in those times in which we were at war with the Bourbon family? I certainly do not think he is. On the contrary, he cannot but wish well to any nation that opposes Gallic tyranny. But I think, nay I am certain, that the pope is the miserable puppet of the usurper of the throne of the Bourbons, that he dare not move but by Napoleon's command; and, should he order him to influence the Irish priests to rouse their flocks to rebellion, he could not refiise to obey the despot. I ground this opinion upon his holiness being forced to anoint the usurper of the throne of the eldest sons of the church, from whose family she had derived most of her possessions. I ground this opinion upon the unfortunate old man being obliged to call upon the very respectable French bishops in this country, who had left all

can

for conscience sake, to forget the solemn | suffer hardships from being excluded from oaths they had sworn to the princes of the Bour- the army. They are only excluded from bon race, and to take others to support tyranny the commissions of commanders in chief and usurpation.-But the noble baron says, and generals on the staff. His lordship, that if you admit catholics to seats in however, now says that I am mistaken; parlament, their numbers in both houses that when they come into this part of must ever be so small, that no danger can the united kingdom, they are liable to possibly occur to our present establish- pehalties for serving. I beg leave to differ ments: I agree with the noble lord, that from his lordship. By the law passed as long as there is a protestant king on the previous to the union, they are allowed throne, there is little danger that any danger to enter into the army, and by the union accrue from their numbers in this all acts not then repealed are confirmed and house; but I positively assert, that, in the sanctioned. But the noble lord says, that other house, it is possible that their numbers four millions of people neither can, nor might be considerable. The present re- will, nor ought, to submit to such restricpresentation of Ireland is almost altogether tions. I entreat the noble lord to pause sent to parliament by popular elections. before he gives the weight of his authority Since the right of voting has been granted to such an opinion. What, that because to catholics, the manufacture of freeholders they are numerous they ought to resist has thriven so rapidly, that there is now the law? I am sure on reflection his lordscarcely a peasant who does not swear ship will not adhere to such an opinion.himself possessed of a forty shilling freehold. I had nearly forgotten a principal point I The numbers of the catholics has been had intended to press on your lordship's atallowed by all sides.-It will be conceded to tention. Both sides of the house, in conme, I am persuaded, that the catholics sidering this question, seem to me to have have hitherto acted in a body: why have forgotten that the catholics are not the they done so? Because they had common only body to be consulted on this occasion. objects. The same causes will probably Are the feelings of the Irish protestants produce the same effects: if catholics get wholly to be left out of consideration? admission to seats in parliament, it is pos- I believe they are almost entirely adverse sible that, in some time hereafter, they to the concession. Respect, I entreat you, may wish to obtain some great catholic the feelings of that body, ever true to their object. What is to prevent their leaders religion, faithful to their king, and enthufrom pressing upon the lower orders the siastically attached to British connexion. necessity of electing oatholics only, and, Descended from yourselves, in fighting if they succeed to a considerable degree, it valiantly their own battles, they have is natural to suppose that, having a common served your interests, and have prevented object, they will act together in parlia- by their exertions that fair and beautiful ment? I will suppose a case that certainly island from being torn from the British does not exist at present; I will suppose empire. In seeking new friends, whom that, at some distant day, a struggle of possibly you may fail to conciliate, neglect parties may take place, that the parties not your old ones, but remain firm to may be pretty nearly balanced; what if those who have in the worst of times rethen the catholic representation, acting in a mained firm to you.-I beg pardon for mass, should offer their assistance to that having so long detained your lordships, party which should favour their views and for having, from excessive fatigue, laid Ministers may wish to cling to their situ- my thoughts before you in a manner ations; opposition per fas aut nefas to obtain less connected than I wished to have done. them. I am apprehensive, as long as I shall oppose the motion for going into human nature remains unchanged, that the a committee on the petition. 'resistance to their wishes would not be very strong. The noble baron (lord Holland) says, that for want of catholic sheriffs, catholics do not in many instances enjoy the benefits of the trial by jury. I never heard that juries failed in doing their duty, without distinction of party, except when they have been deterred by the terrors of assassination. That noble lord says they

Lord Carysfort considered the question of immense magnitude and importance. He had a great deal to submit to their lordships upon it, but thought the hour too late for that purpose, and therefore suggested the propriety of an adjournment.

The Marquis of Buckingham was in the same predicament as the noble lord who had just spoken, having also much to say to

Lord Grenville submitted to the house the propriety of not proceeding further the pre-day to be liberated. The sum of your ofsent evening.

Earl Darnley wished to address the house also, but thought it too late. He appealed to noble lords opposite to him, whether there was not an understanding before the debate commenced that there was to be anly, and corruptly admit fictitious votes upon adjournment?

A committee was appointed to examine | juncture, they are engaged. He on whom the ballot had fallen, according to the lists put in the glasses.

[STATE OF THE NAVY.] Mr. Jeffery said, he rose in pursuance of the notice he had given, to have the honour of submitting to the house a motion for the production of several accounts relating to the naval department of the country, during the administration of earl St. Vincent. Having read the motions on a former night to the house, and being of opinion that some time should be taken to deliberate on their contents, he now rose to submit his motions to the con

sideration of parliament. He was persuaded when the accounts were laid upon the table, and perused by the members, that he would be borne out in the view which he had taken of the subject, and the intention for which the accounts were brought forward. He would not trouble the house with any further observations until he heard whether his motions were opposed, or met with the approbation of the house. He therefore should move, "That there be laid before the house an account, shewing the number of line-of-battle ships and frigates built between the 1st January, 1783, and 31st December, 1792, distinguishing the number of ships launched from the merchants' yards, from those launched from the king's yards."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he had no objection to the motion now offered; but as those which were to follow were very voluminous, he wished to have it understood, that he must oppose the production of any papers tending to shew the state and condition of the ships in 1804, as it might afford improper information to the enemy. He should also object to the production of any correspondence explaining the state of British and foreign timber, as it might disclose the foreign resources of the navy, and thereby perhaps enable the enemy to embarrass them.

Sir John Sinclair entertained great doubts with respect to the propriety of bringing forward the long list of motions which the hon. gent. stated on a former night, as they embraced almost every branch of the naval service of the country. He submitted if, at this late period of the session, it were adviseable; and he would be glad to know from any gentleman conversant with the official business of the board of admiralty, if these accounts could be prepared without distracting its attention from the other important: concerns, in which, at this con

if these motions were agreed to, of earl St. Vincent would move papers, which would still emb public business. He was desirou formed, if, at any crisis like t the lords of the admiralty could voluminous accounts moved for member, without material inju public service in the present st country? He was of opinion preparing the accounts would b with manifest inconvenience, and swer no good purpose whatever.

Mr. Jeffery considered the o of the hon. baronet premature, a not know whether the accounts to enquiry or not. He would no if any thing criminal occurred ministration of lord St. Vincent, be passed over, and that an enqui conduct ought not to be instituted clared, on his honour, that he di through party motives, he was nected individual, not belonging t or set of men; his conduct arose feelings for the situation of the co his knowledge where the faults putable, with respect to the adm of earl St. Vincent. The reduce the navy he attributed to the noble if enquiry was to be dispensed present session, he knew the d obtaining enquiry hereafter. H had undertaken an herculean ta first instance, but he had cogen and sufficient reasons for bringing sure before the house. He truste member would object to his mo parliament might decide whethe was or was not necessary. trusted that no gentleman would the production of the papers, knew what they contained. T neither as voluminous nor as in some members might imagine; pledged himself that they could be in a week or ten days, without g extraordinary trouble to the lords of ralty in perusing their contents. H them absolutely necessary to be as he would take upon him to p lord St. Vincent had disgraced th navy, and was the greatest ener country and the navy of Great-B the country ever knew.

He

Mr. Tierney said, he was far from the motion now before the house, as the hon. gent. had put it out of

of earl St. Vincent, that all his lordship looked for was a full and fair enquiry.

to do so, by declaring that the noble and situation to another. They differed indeed gallant earl had disgraced the British navy, in their opinions, on the best means of and was the greatest enemy to the country naval administration; but he should not have that the country ever knew. If the hon. thought that a reason why he should so abangent. said all this from his own suggestion, don him in every other respect. A fair and it was a pity that he was not a lord of the manly hostility to the noble earl, like that of admiralty, by which he might have obtained the unconnected individual, would, in his greater information than he probably now opinion, be more becoming in the right hon. possessed. The lights, however, which he gent. than the grant of papers, professing to professed to have obtained, and the decisive brand the noble earl in the manner express line of conduct he bad adopted, were rathered by his present adversary. This was not strange in an independent country gentle-a charge that respected any particular exman, professing himself to be unconnected pedition, or partial failure, but a broad acwith any party. It was equally strange too, cusation, which ought either to be sifted to that no attack whatever had been made the bottom, or all documents be refused against earl St. Vincent until he adopted upon it. When the hon. accuser seemed to measures which tended to attack others. doubt whether these papers might in the reThe proceedings of this day were certainly sult, tend to an enquiry, he must have had a good warning to any man to be very care- a most extravagant opinion of his own moful how he ventured to attack abuses. If tion, to think it would be sufficient of itself the hon. gent. had indeed been a party man, for condemnation. For his own part, he instead of an unconnected gentleman, as he was of a very different opinion, and wished, described himself, he might have been sus-in conclusion, distinctly to state on the part pected of having taken a very dexterous way to divert the attention of the house from the other enquiries already going forward; The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he but he could not consider it altogether fair in did not see why the right hon. gent. should this unconnected; man to assert that he could rest his observations particularly on him, as prove earl St. Vincent to have disgraced the he, no more than any other member, could navy, and have been an enemy to his coun-judge whether the papers might endure an try. After he had heard the minister himself object to, some of those papers which might turn out to be the most necessary for the noble earl's defence; let the fair and full enquiry be granted; and if any of the papers required should appear of too delicate a nature to be made public, let the enquiry be a secret one. At the present moment, indeed, the friends of the earl St. Vincent did not appear to be very numerous in that house; nor were they much wanting to a man who might safely, rest his character on the sentiments of a grateful and affectionate people. Whatever that unconnected gentleman, might think himself, he fancied he would not find it an easy task to convince the people of England that the earl St. Vincent was the enemy of his country. He thought he had a right to expect, that the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) himself would have given some favourable opinion of at least the professional merits of the noble earl, when he heard his, character arraigned. in such a man r, by this unconnected individual. When he heard so illustrious a cha racter reviled, without any appeal to former friendship, to extend towards it the protection of his own opinion, was no more than what was, due, from, one great man in a high

enquiry,. until he could examine the nature of them all. When this motion was first noticed, it seemed to be the general wish, on all sides, that the papers should be granted, and he alone wished for a delay, which led him, as he stated before,. to object to two of them, as inconsistent with the public safety; but, he could not foresee the effect of the remainder. If the house examined the speech of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Tierney), they would: observe it to consist of alternate sentences: the one tending to court,, and the other to suppress enquiry. As to what had been alluded to of protection, he had only to say, that he should be always ready to protect earl St. Vincent; or any other man, against injustice. The remembrance he had of the great professional services of the noble earl would be a sufficient restraint against any hostility on his part towards him; but, he had long since expressed his opinion of his conduct in the ada miralty, and he had not yet seen any reason to retract it. The past prefessional merits of the noble earl, however great, were not sufficient grounds to defend the faults in his administration. For his own part, he. des clared that he had: no wish for, nor did he intend to submit, any enquiry into the con