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tail what I know concerning the collection that is not built of Irish timber. Perhaps in of the revenue in it; but I will say thus Waterford it may be otherwise, owing to much, that there is scarcely a distiller in its contiguity to the sea. The duties I proDublin who has not openly and honestly pose are these: double the duties on all avowed to me that he has defrauded the re-timber, except Deal, and half the duties on venue. It is owing to the wretched system Deal. The reason why gentlemen should with regard to the lower officers of excise; not be alarmed at this duty is, that it will their means are so small, and their habits of not amount to a quarter of what is received expence are so great, that without raising in G. Britain. These duties altogether I their salaries considerably, as the reward of estimate at 36,000l. The three or four next diligence and merit, we shall never be able taxes will not fall on the poor. One is a to prevent the distiller from acts of fraud and tax on Horses: not on agricultural Horses, peculation. There are 17 or 18 distillers but riding Horses, and Horses that draw that not long ago, on being examined, re- carriages. The duty I propose will be much fused to be examined on oath, and actually smaller than what is paid in England. It sent in a memorial, stating that it would be will be 3s. for a single horse. The next is an act of perfidy in them to disclose facts a tax on Dogs. It will be of consequence that would be injurious to others, and that to the poor people of Ireland, that instead they could not, as honest men, make any of maintaining 5 or 6 dogs, only 1 should discovery. This they fairly acknowledged be allowed. The Horses I estimate at to me, and I recollect, that in the books of 400,000l. and Dogs at 8000l. The next one distiller in particular, there was a charge tax I propose is on Curricles. Why should of 12001. paid to revenue officers. Without not curricles pay the same as four-wheeled the utmost exertions of the commissioners carriages, as they answer the same purpose? of excise, and at the same time bettering the I propose that a curricle with 2 wheels shall condition of the revenue officers, you can be considered the same as a carriage with never make any alteration. I hope the pe- 4 wheels. There are another kind of carriod will not be long when you will ameli- riages which do not pay duty. They are orate the excise laws, and make them more used as substitutes for chaises. I mean fair and equitable with regard to those who Gigs. Gigs are untaxed. I propose to put pay the duties. It is a fact, that the sub- a small duty upon them. There is another commissioners of excise are themselves the species of carriages, called Jaunting Cars, seizing officers; therefore, until that is re- or the Irish Vis-a-Vis. They form a great medied, it is impossible that the excise trial part of the luxury of those who have few can be palatable. The nearer we can get other luxuries; the tax, therefore, I shall to the civil mode of trial in proceedings re- propose upon them will be very light: I lative to revenue the better. It is particu- shall propose 5s. a piece. The whole of larly important that the collection of the ex- these duties, I expect, will produce 10,0001. cise duties should be under one board. I a year. With respect to the next tax I prohope, on some future occasion, to call the pose, I am afraid some gentlemen will be attention of the house to this subject. The angry with me; I copy the example of object is to find the Ways and Means for England. It is well known that Bachelor's this sum of 255,2251. a year. First, I shall pay very little towards the revenue: I propropose a tax on several articles, which, pose an addition of 155. on every bachelor's though of importance, yet, with the excep-male servant. This will produce about tion of one, are trifling as objects on which 40001. The next tax I have to submit to taxation will be felt. It is scarce worth the committee is on Paper, Hats, and Aucwhile going through the whole detail. Itions. This I expect will produce 12,000l. propose to increase the duties on the impor- I propose to raise 20,000l. by a tax on the tation of timber, raisins, pepper, &c. Post-office. An additional duty of 1d. a letThe hon. baronet (sir J. Newport) who represents the city of Waterford, seems alarmed at the idea of a tax on timber; but if he thinks that the revenue must necessarily be raised on something, there is nothing on which a tax can fall so lightly as on foreign timber. It will certainly not affect the poorer classes. There is hardly a cabin of a poor man in Ireland that is made of foreign timber. I do not know of any cabin

ter. With regard to the post-office, I should mention, that it is in contemplation to recommend a measure for the prevention of the frequent robberies of the mails, by sending them in coaches. The best mode of carrying this into effect will be to recommend to grand juries to direct the making proper roads through which the mail coaches are to travel, and with that view to take care that surveyors are appointed to make the roads

at present, but shall be happy to give any explanation which gentlemen may require. The right hon. gent. then moved his first resolution.

as complete as possible, and present those | Passengers, which would produce about who neglect their duty. By this mode we 3000l. a year; and upon that a sufficient shall take no money out of the public trea-sum might be borrowed to make the neces sury, and no more than is absolutely necessary alterations in the harbour. This, how. sary from individuals. There is another tax ever, will be a subject for future conside which I do not wish to resort to directly, ration. The produce of the taxes which I but it is necessary I should mention it. I have enumerated I estimate at 262,250l. and need not remind gentlemen, that in the year the sum wanted for the interest of the Loan 1791 the hearth money duties were taken and Sinking Fund was 255,000l. which off the lower orders, and raised on the leaves a surplus of about 7000l. I will not higher. Houses that had one hearth a-occupy more of the time of the committee mounted to nearly 500,000. There was comparatively very few houses that had two hearths. The whole loss to the public, by taking off the tax, was 28,000l. What I wish to do is not to revive the tax, but to Mr. James Fitzgerald rose, and regretted lay a tax on houses under Seven Windows. that the public accounts for Ireland, which Where the persons inhabiting them pay 50s. had been moved for, were not laid before a year, the tax I propose is 3s. But to the house on an earlier day than the 5th guard the poor man from being called on, inst.; if they had, gentlemen would be he must swear he is not worth 101. or does much better able to go into the present most not rent land to the amount of 51. a year. important, and at the same time intricate In order to be liable to the tax, he must pay subject. Before he should call the atten50s. a year for his house, or be worth 101. tion of the house to the particulars of the or rent 51. a year in land. I cannot think statement made by his right hon. friend, he this will distress any one. Gentlemen will must protest against, and even censure the see that we are assimilating ourselves to habit of anticipating the revenue in Ireland, England. Instead of taxing houses, ac- long before it was received in the treasury. cording to the hearths, we exempt them Much inconvenience arose from this practill they are rated as seven Windows. This tice, and he believed a great deal of injury tax will bring back 21,000l. a year; but then likewise resulted from it to the country. we must deduct 60001. for houses of five and He could not refrain from lamenting that six windows, to be exempted as in Britain; balances to an enormous amount should be so that the sum I take credit for is 15,000l. constantly left in the hands of the collectors. These are, I think, the whole I have to pro- It was in vain, therefore, that we looked pose, except one, which can only fall on for a productive revenue, whilst this anticithose who are able to bear taxes. It is a tax pation and its consequent evils afflicted the of 251. per cent. on all windows above country, and interfered with the application seven. This I cștimate at 31,000l. There of the taxes in the most suitable ways. He is one more tax which I estimate at 17,000l. did not think that it was necessary to raise It is by an increase on Stamps and Licences. any new taxes under the present circumWith regard to the Stamps, I mean to pro- stances of Ireland, or that any ground of pose the rates of duties another day. The necessity had been made out for them. Licences will be those granted to Auctioneers, From the review he had taken of the finanBrewers, and others. The tax will be not cial state of that country, however unfaat all injurious to trade. One article only vourable it appeared, he thought he could remains, and that is the Treasury Bills, satisfy the house that his proposition was which I make no provision for at present; well founded. His right hon. friend calcubut I shall reserve for a future day, when I lated the Revenue at 4,000,000l. the Loan think it necessary to trouble the committee. at 3,500,000l. and gave credit for 800,3541, There is one other subject which I wish to Now the whole of the sum to be raised amention, though I do not mean to propose mounting to no more than 8,464,9831. it it as a tax at present. It certainly must be struck him that any additional taxes were a desirable object to both countries to faci- quite unnecessary; and he put it to the litate the intercourse between them. If the candour of the house whether they should packets between Dublin and Holyhead could be imposed. He said that the proposed be so arranged that they could sail at low taxes were unnecessary, because there rewater, it would be a great advantage. Imained due to the treasury of Ireland a great think a small duty might be laid upon Cabin deal more than was sufficient for covering the

deficiency, and the sums to which he alluded | literally a bankrupt at the time of the Union,


and had been getting worse ever since; it was obvious, therefore, that Ireland could not discharge her share of the unequal contract entered into for her, and of course that England should ultimately pay all. He contended, that by borrowing so much money this year, Ireland increased the proportion of its debt compared with that of England, and of course must extend the time for equalising the burthens, which was proposed by the Act of Union. He again insisted that there would be no occasion for new taxes in that country, if the government should call in the arrears now in the hands of the collectors of the revenue, and said he was determined to give his negative to the resolution.

were the balances in the hands of the collectors, the revenues still due, and the arrears of the quit-rents, which amounted to 1,129,000l. The house would be astonished to hear, that the balances which remained year in the hands of the collectors were no less than 500,000l. He did not reckon much, however, on the greater part of this, as he supposed a great deal of it could never be recovered, and the rest at a considerable expence. The next source which he should propose for the supply would be, the surplus of the consolidated fund taken at 264,6191. and the profit of the Irish Lottery rated at 100,000l. The postage of letters he should also reckon at 44,000l. The extraordinaries, or the expences thus termed, if well regulated, would, he was convinced, Mr. Foster replied, that he had no objecadd considerably to the means of the coun- tion to apply the balances in the collectors' try; he meant, by not being at all times a hands to the purpose mentioned by his right considerable and weighty drawback on its hon. friend who had just sat down, but the resources. There was one branch under difficulty was to get it paid. Situated as both the head of extraordinaries, which, he trust-countries were at this moment, would it be ed, would be restricted: he meant the gain wise or politic to leave the supplies, or any to this country, and the consequent loss to part of them, dependent on mere continIreland, on transmitting money to the Irish gencies? It was impossible to make up the Treasury. Here the hon. gent. noticed the accounts so precisely as not to leave some of nature of the late loan, and the dispropor- the money in the commissioners' hands. It tioned exchange at which it was sent to Ire- was the practice from time immemorial to land. The hon. gent. also took a close view do so; and he was convinced from his own of the relative situation of both countries, experience, that the object of his hon. friend and the balance of their respective debts, was unattainable, and this could not therewith a contrast of what should be the pro- fore be taken into serious consideration as a portion of each, according to the Articles of certain fund for the exigency of the moment. the Union: 30,000,000 due by Ireland on His hon. friend would also apply the surplus the 1st of March, 1802, were in proportion of the Consolidated Fund in the same manto 469,800,000. due by England, as one toner; but did he not know that the whole of When the debt of England was that surplus was to be appropriated by Par469,800,000l. the debt of Ireland should be liament to the paying off certain arrears, for 62,640,000l. in order to make it equal to it which it was intended? If it were taken in the proportion of 7 to one.-58,923,3561. away, there would be no fund then for this debt of Ireland were in proportion to purpose. His hon. friend likewise took 484,962,6321. debt due by England, nearly credit for 2 millions, as if the money had as 1 to 8, and some fractions. To make been in the treasury. This was certainly as the debt of Ireland equal to that of England, great an anticipation of the revenue as any in the proportion of 7 to 1, it should be which his hon. friend had charged to the go64,555,1721. The hon. gent. proceeded at vernment of Ireland. He hoped he would great length, and concluded with expressing excuse him for saying, that the Public Aca most ardent wish that the affairs of Ireland counts of Ireland were laid this year before were before the house. The real condition | Parliament much earlier than they had been of that country would convince gentlemen ever laid before the Parliament of Ireland, that its ability to pay its proportion of the joint expences of the empire had been totally over-rated. What the motive for this could have been he knew not, unless it proceeded from vanity, or interested motives in those who were concerned in the arrangement which brought it about. Ireland was


on which account he should return his thanks to the officers, for having made up their accounts with such accuracy and promptitude. He paid the greatest attention to the observations of the hon. gent. but he did not hear any ground advanced which could induce him to withdraw or alter

the taxes which he had the honour of pro- linen exported; he could therefore by no posing. means conceive that the taking off the Sir John Newport said he could not con-duty was the cause of the increase which ceive why no account had been given of the the right hon. gent.' had mentioned. With 2 millions due from G. Britain to Ireland, respect to the great increase of the debt of ever since the passing of the Act of Union. Ireland last year, he begged to observe, that Had that resource been stated, and resorted out of the loan of last year he had paid off to previously to the budget, it must surely 1,700,000l. of 'exchequer bills, of which have superseded the necessity of resorting to 700,000l. were outstanding when he came new taxes, to the amount of 255,000l. It into office. This sum, when added to the was surely full time that these accounts should balance remaining in the exchequer, made be settled, as the committee formerly ap-a sum of 2 millions, over and above the expointed had only met two or three times, penditure of the year. He said he by no and came to no determination. He express-means wished to make any observation that ed very strong objections to the proposed could be considered as inimical to the right tax upon the importation of timber, as, hon. gent.; but he thought it right to say whatever may be the case in the county of thus much, in order to set himself right Louth, or those parts of Ireland with which with the house, and to justify the statement the right hon. gent. (Mr. Foster) was best he had formerly made. acquainted, it would operate very injuriously Mr. Foster observed, that as to any poto the comforts of all the cottagers in those litical differences that existed between him parts of Ireland with which he was particu- and the right hon. gent. they had never larly connected, where native timber was so weighed in his mind, and he hoped they scarce that they were obliged to have re- did not in that of the right hon. gent. As course entirely to such as was imported.-to the linen, the papers when produced Notwithstanding this necessity, he was sorry to observe that the tax upon timber was regularly augmented every year since the Union.

would speak for themselves. The balances, in fact, that remained due to the treasury was last year 500,000l. as he had stated it.

Mr. Corry said, that the right hon. gent. had then stated that 550,000l. in cash remained in the hands of the collectors. He admitted that some such sum was due to the treasury; but asserted that it had not been collected, and the balance of cash was only 130,000l.

Mr. Foster replied, that he had never meant to say that the cash actually in their hands was 500,000l.

Mr. Corry said that he was happy to find, from what had fallen from the right hon. gent. (Mr. Foster), that he had altered his opinion upon a point on which they had differed last year, viz. the amount of the balances in the hands of the collectors. The right hon. gent. had stated that the cash balances in the hands of the collectors was no less than 550,000l.; and to shew that he distinctly meant cash balances, he compared Lord A. Hamilton contended, that in them with the amount of the balance in the law, the debt of Ireland was now become hands of the collectors in England, which an English debt; that the state of its exports was only 37,000l. Whereas, if he had and imports could give us no sanguine hopes meant the balance in charge against the Irish of the increase of its resources, and that if collectors, he would have compared it with taxes were thus multiplied, there could be the arrears of duties in England, which no ground for entertaining any sanguine amounts to between 5 and 6 millions. The hopes that Ireland, even in time of peace, right hon. gent. now admitted that the cash would be able to satisfy all the claims upon balance in the hands of the collectors, in- its regular revenue.

stead of 550,000l. was only 130,000l. With The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave noregard to the increase of the export of tice, that in order to satisfy the House and linen, it was a circumstance that gave him the public upon the subject, he should togreat satisfaction; but he could not attri-morrow move for a committee to inquire inbute that increase to the taking off the duty, to the state of the accounts between G. Bribecause of 37 millions of yards exported tain and Ireland.-The first resolution was from Ireland, 35 millions was imported into then put and agreed to. England, which did not pay the duty; and the quantity of Irish linen exported to foreign countries from Gr. Britain was not above one-fourth of the quantity of British

Mr. Foster, observing several members about to retire, said, he hoped the gentlemen interested in the Irish 6 per cent. duties upon the imports of the retail traders,

would not withdraw, as he was then about to move the resolution for continuing it.

Mr. D. B. Daly said, he had that day received instructions from his constituents, to oppose the measure, but he should wait for the bringing in of the bill.-The several resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to be reported to-morrow.-Adjourned.


Tuesday, March 14. [MUTINY BILL.J-Previous to the 2d reading of the Mutiny bill,

-The bill was then ordered to be committed to-morrow, and the house to be summoned.

[STATE OF THE NAVY.]-Earl Darnley rose for the purpose of submitting to their lordships, agreeably to the notice he had given, a number of motions for the production of papers, necessary for instituting a comparison between the late and present Boards of Admiralty. It was not his wish, in the present stage of the proceedings, to go into a wide field of discussion; sufficient opportunities would offer for that in a more The Marquis of Buckingham rose, and advanced stage of them. He would, at begged leave to call the attention of the present, confine himself to reading his moHouse to the innovations which had been tions, to the greater part of which he unmade on that bill since it was last before derstood no objections would be made, and their lordships, particularly in those clauses to make such comments on them as he by which the presidents of the regimental thought necessary for explaining their tencourts martial are required to be on oath dency to their lordships. There were two themselves, and to administer oaths to the great points to which he wished to direct other members of the court, and to the the attention of the house, and upon which witnesses to be examined. The noble mar- he was chiefly anxious to obtain informa quis stated that it was not his intention, on tion. The first respected the deficiency of these grounds, to oppose the 2d reading of small craft; one, as their lordships might the bill, but merely to call the attention of recollect, of the most serious accusations their lordships, and of the noble carl who against the late naval administration; and forwarded the public business through this the next applied to the practice of contractHouse, to the alterations which he had no-ing for ships to be built in merchants' yards. ticed. He had at the same time to regret, in common with the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, the disagreeable situation in which that House often felt itself placed, of either impeding the business of the nation, by interfering in bills to which, by the usage of parliament, any alteration made by them must prove fatal, or of passing bills which were grossly defective and objectionable.

Lord Walsingham conceived that the observations of the noble marquis were irregular and premature. He knew it was in the contemplation of the noble earl (Camdem) when he should come to move the 2d reading of the bill, to notice the alterations to which the noble marquis had alluded. The Earl of Camden having moved the 2d reading of the bill, recapitulated the different alterations which it had been deemed adviseable to make on it.

The Duke of Clarence said, it could by no means be supposed that it was his wish, at such a period, to object to the present bill. It was his intention, however, when the bill should be proposed to be committed, to call the attention of the house to the al terations which had now for the first time been introduced. He should therefore move that the house be summoned for the day on which the bill was meant to be committed.

With respect to the first point, he was informed, that a number of ships had been bought up for the king's service, which, in the opinion of many persons professionally qualified to decide, and also of those who were appointed to command them, were totally unfit for the particular line of service to which they were destined. All of those had been purchased at a most extravagant rate, and before the public had derived any benefit from them, it was found necessary that they should undergo ample repairs, which were effected upon terms even more extravagant than the original purchase. His lordship said, he would read his motions, and comment upon them as they occurred; the first was for an Account of all the Ships which have been purchased for his maj.'s Navy, since 16th May, 1804, specifying from whom, their age and tonnage; the va luation put on them by the officers of the Dock-yards, the sums paid for them, the expence of fitting them as ships of war in the merchant and King's yards, and of any alterations made in them since they were first fitted." To this, he understood, no objection was likely to be offered, and therefore he would not trouble their lordships with any observations on it.-His next mo tion would be for "Copies of all letters and C


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