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bigotry to prescribe at home, ambition to the ancient renown of your island. You disturb abroad. Such was your opinion have said it yourselves, and you have added, when you established popery in Canada; I that Ireland is your vulnerable part: why do not speak of Corsica—such your opinion vulnerable ? Vulnerable because you have when you recruited for the foot in Ireland. misgoverned her. It may then happen that It was in the American war this practice on Irish ground, and by an Irish hand, the began : then you found that the principle of destinies of this ancient monarchy called exclusive empire would not answer, and Great Britain, may be decided. According that her test was not who should say her ly, you

have voted your army,


have prayers, but who should fight her battles. forgot to vote your people; you must vote On the same principle the Irish militia, their passions likewise. Their horrors at which must be in a great proportion catho- the French proceedings will do much, but it lic, stands; and on the same principle the is miserable to rely on the crimes of your Irish yeomanry, who must be in a consider- enemies always, on your own wisdom never

. able proportion catholic, stands; and on the Besides, those horrors did not prevent Prussame principle you have recruited for the sia from leaving your alliance, nor Austria navy in Ireland, and have committed your from making peace, nor the united Irishmen sea thunder to catholic hands.

Suppose in from making war. Loyalty will do much, Egypt the general had ordered the catholics but you require more patience under taxes, to go out of the ranks; or if, in one of your such as are increased far beyond what we sea-lights, the admiral had ordered all the have been accustomed to, from one million catholics on shore, what had been the con- and a half to 8,000,000; nor patience only, sequence? It is an argument against the but ardour—the strong qualities, not such proscriptive system, that if adopted practi- as the scolding dialect of certain gentlemen cally, in navy or army, the navy and army would excite—the fire, a spirit that in the and empire would evaporate. And shall we case of an invasion will not sit as a spy on now proclaim these men, or hold such lan- the doubt of the day and calculate, but, guage as the member, language which, if though the first battle should be unsuccesshe held on the day of tle, he must be ful, would come out with a desperate fidelishot; language for which, if a catholic, he ty, and embody with the destinies of Enmust be hanged; such as you despised in gland. It is a wretched thing to ask, how the case of Corsica and of Canada, iir the would they act in such a case? What, after choice of

your allies, in the recruiting your a connexion of six hundred years, to thank army and your navy, whenever your con- your admiral for your safety, or the wind, · venience, whenever your ambition, when- or any thing but your own wisdom ! and ever your interest required. Or let us turn therefore the question is not whether the from the magnitude of your empire to the catholics shall get so many seats, but whether magnitude of its danger, and you wil ob- you shall get so many millions ; in such a serve, that whereas Europe was heretofore case you live all people. What is it that divided in many small nations of various re- constitutes the strength and health of Enligions making part of their civil policy, gland but this sort of vitality, that her priand with alliances influenced in some de- vileges, like her money, circulate every gree and directed b;' those religious distinc- where, and center 10 where? This it was tions, where civil and religious freedom which equality would have given, but did were supposed to be drawn up on one side, not give, France; this it was which the and on the other popery and arbitrary pow- plain sense of your ancestors, without equaer, so now the globe has been divided anew. lity, did give the English; a something England and France, you have taken a frst which limited her kings, drove her enemies, situation among mankind; you are, of and made a handful of men fill the world course, excludeci from a second: Austria with their name.--Will

union may have a second situation, Prussia may with Ireland, with-hold the regimen which have a second, but England scems to have has made you strong, and continue the relinked her being to her glory, and when she gimen which has made her feeble? You will ceases to be of the first she is nothing. Ac- further recollect, that you have invited her cording to this supposition, and it is a sup- to your patrimony, and hitherto you hare position which I do not frame, but find in given her taxes and additional debt, I bethe country, the day may not be very re- lieve it is of 26,000,000: The other part note when you will have to fight for being, of your patrimony, I should be glad to see and for what you value more than being, that. Talk plainly and honestly to the Irish


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—'tis true your taxes are increased, and and barriers against the catholic, instead of your debts multiplied, but here are our pri- uniting with that catholic to throw up barvileges, great burthens and great privileges : riers against the French-this surprises; this is the patrimony of England, and with and, in addition to this, that you should have this does she assess, recruit, inspire, con- set up the pope in Italy to tremble at him in solidate. But the protestant ascendancy, it Ireland ; and further, that you should have is said, alone can keep the country, namely, professed to have placed yourself at the head the gentry, clergy, and nobility, against the of a christian not a protestant league, to deFrench, and without the people. It may fend the civil and religious liberty of Europe,

But, in 1641, above ten thousand and should deprive of their civil liberty one troops were sent from England to assist that fifth of yourselves, on account of their reliparty; in 1789, twenty-three regiments gion-this surprises me; and also, that you were raised in England to assist them; in should prefer to buy allies by subsidies rather 1798, the English militia were sent over to than fellow subjects by privileges ; and that assist them. What can be done by spirit you should now stand, drawn out as it were will be done by them; but would the city in battalion, 16,000,000 against 36,000,000, of London, on such assurance, risk a gui- and should at the same time paralize a fifth nea? The parliament of Ireland did risk of your own numbers, by excluding them every thing, and are now nothing; and in from some of the principal benefits of your their extinction left this instruction, not to constitution, at the very time you say all their posterity, for they have none, but to your numbers are inadequate, unless inspired you, who come in the place of their pos- by those very privileges. As I recommendterity, not to depend on a sect of religion, ed to you to give the privileges, so I should nor trust the final issue of your fortunes to recommend the catholics to wait cheerfully · any thing less than the whole of your peo- and dutifully. The temper with which they ple.The parliament of Ireland--of that bear the privation of power and privilege is assembly I have a parental recollection. I evidence of their qualification. They will sat by her cradle, I followed her hearse. In recollect the strength of tijeir case, which fourteen years she acquired for Ireland what sets them above impatience; they will reyou did not acquire for England in a cen- collect the growth of their case, from the tury-freedom of trade, independency of time it was first agitated to the present mothe legislature, independency of the judges, ment, and in that growth perceive the perestoration of the final judicature, repeal of rishable nature of the objections, and the a perpetual mutiny bill, habeas corpus act, immortal quality of the principle they connullum tempus act. A great work! you tend for; they will further recollect what will exceed it, and I shall rejoice. I call my they have goiten already, rights of religion, countrymen to witness if, in that business, I rights of property, and, above all, the eleccompromised the claims of my country, ortive franchise, which is in itself the seminal temporised with the power of England. But principle of every thing else.' With a vessel there was one thing which baffled the effortso laden they will be too wise to leave the of the patriot, and defeated the wisdom of harbour, and trust the fallacy of any wind. the sente; it was the folly of the theolo- Nothing can prevent the ultimate success of gian. When the parliament of Ireland re- the catholics bùt intemperance; for this jected the catholic petition, and assented to they will be too wise. The charges vittered the calumnies then uttered against the catho- against them they will answer by their allelic body, on that day she voted the union. giance. So should I speak to the catholics. If you should adopt a similar conduct, on To the protestant I would say—You have that day you will vote the separation. Many gotten the land and powers of the country, good and pious reasons you may give, many and it now remains to make those acquisigood and pious reasons she gave, and she lies tions eternal. Do not you see, according to there with lier many good and her pious the present state and temper of England and

That the parliament of Ireland France, that your country must ultimately should have entertained prejudices, I am not be the seat of war ; do not you see that your astonished; but that you—that you who children must stand in the front of the bathave as individuals and as conquerors visited tle, with uncertainty and treachery in the a great part of the globe, and have seen men rear of it? If then, by ten or twelve seats in in all their modifications, and Providence in parliament, given to catholics, you could all her ways—that you, now at this time of prevent such a day, would not the comprethe day, should thrów dykes against the pope nise be every thing? What is your wretch


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ed monopoly, the shadow of your present, your recollection. One of the causes of the memory

of your past power, compared these things, whether efficient or instrumento the safety of your families, the security of tal, as aggravating the proscriptive systen, I your estates, and the solid peace and repose mean you may now remove. It is a great of your island ? Besides, you have an ac- work. Or has ambition not enlarged your count to settle with the empire. Might not mind, or only enlarged the sphere of its ac. the empire accost you thus “For one hun- tion? What the best men in Ireland wished dred years you have been in possession of to do, but could not do, the patriot courtier the country, and very loyally have you taken and the patriot oppositionist, you may acto yourselves the power and profit thereof. complish : what Mr. Gardiner, Mr. LangI am now to receive at your hands the fruits rishe, men who had no views of popularity of all this, and the unanimous support of the or interest, or any but the public good; people; where is it, now when I am beset what Mr. Daly, Mr. Burgh, men whom Í with enemies, and in my day of trial ?" Let shall not pronounce to be dead if their gethe protestant ascendancy answer that ques- nius live in this measure; what Mr. Forbes, tion, for I cannot. Above twenty millions every man that loved Ireland; what Lord have been wasted on your shocking contest, Puy, the wisest man in Ireland ever proand a great proportion of troops of the line duced; what Mr. Hutchinson, an able, aclocked

up in your island, that you may en complished, and enlightened servant of the ! joy the ascendancy of the country and the crown; what Lord Charlemont, superior to ! empire, not receive the strength of it. Such his early prejudices, bending under years, a system cannot last; your destinies must be and experience, and public affection ; what changed and exalted. The catholic no lon- that dying nobleman, what our Burke, what ger your inferior, nor you inferior to every the most profound divines, Doctor Newone, save only the catholic; both must be come, for instance, our late primate, his mifree, and both must fight-the enemy, and tre stood in the front of that measure; what not one another. Thus the sects of religion, these men supported, and against whom? renouncing, the one all foreign connection, Against men who had no opinion at that and the other all domestic proscription, shall time on the subject, except that which the form a strong country; and thus the two minister ordered, or men whose opinions islands, renouncing all national prejudices, were so extravagant, that even bigotry must shall form a strong empire, a phalanx in the blush for them; and yet those men had not west, to check, perhaps ultimately to con- before them considerations which should found, the ambition of the enemy. I know make you wise—that the pope has evapothe ground on which I stand, and the truths rated, and that France has covered the best which I utter; and I appeal to the objec- part of Europe. That terrible sight is now tions you urge against me, which I consti- before you : it is a gulph that has swallowed tute my judges, to the spirit of your own re- up a great portion of your treasure; it yawns ligion, and to the genius of your own revo- | for your being. Were it not wise, therelution; and I consent to have the principle fore, to come to a good understanding with which I maintain tried by any test; and the Irish now? It will be miserable, if any equally sound, I contend, it will be found, thing untoward should happen hereafter, to whether you apply it to constitution where say, we did not foresee this danger ; against. it is freedom, or to empire where it is other dangers, against the pope we were imstrength, or to religion where it is light.

—pregnable. But if, instead of guarding Turn to the opposite principle, proscription against dangers which are not, we should and discord. It has made in Ireland not provide against dangers which are, the reonly. war but even peace calamitous : wit-medy is in your hands, the franchises of ness the one that followed the victories of the constitution. Your ancestors King William, to the catholics a sad servi- nursed in that cradle; the ancestors of the tude, to the protestants a drunken triumph, petitioners were less fortunate; the posterity and to both a peace without trade and with- of both, born to new and strange dangers ; out constitution. You have seen, in 1798, let them agree to renounce jealousies and rebellion break out again, the enemy mask- proscriptions, in order to oppose what, withing her expeditions in consequence of the out that agreement, will overpower both. state of Ireland, twenty millions lost, one Half Europe is in battalion against us, and farthing of which did not tell, in empire and we are damning one another on account of blood, barbarously, boyishly, and most in- mysteries, when we should form against the gloriously expended! These things are in enemy, and march.-But I can exhausted.

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The Attorney General.-I am as anxious great a proportion catholic. The concilia. to concur in any measure, which has for its tion of Ireland is the ostensible reason for object the consolidation of the strength and bringing forward the measure; but if that interest of the empire, as either of the two be really the question, gentlemen will do hon. gentlemen who have supported this well to consider the effect of it, not only motion ; but the proposition of the hon. upon the catholics, but upon


protestants meinber who opened this debate does not also. They should consider what would be appear to me in any way calculated to meet the alienating operation of the repeal of the that end. The hon. gentleman has stated fifth article of the union, upon the protestant the abstract question of right, with his usual population of Ireland. I fear the effect of it precision, but certainly not so strong as he would be to destroy that tranquillity which might have done, nor can I agree with him the honourable mover of the question seems in the irferences he has endeavoured to de- so anxious to maintain. Even that morality,

duce from it. The hon. mover of the and conscientious regard of their oaths, : question has argued, that no danger is to be which is said to be so strongly inculcated by

apprehended at present in admitting catho- the tenets of the catholic religion, should lics to the representative privilege. Possibly convince gentlemen, that in a regular, ordernot. Great numbers may not come in at ly way, they would omit no opportunities of first, but parliament is to look prospectively procuring for their religion all possible adto the effect of the measure, and the proba- vantages. It is true that the petitioners have ble line of conduct that would be pursued by abjured any intention to subvert the protesthe catholics when they shall obtain a share tant religion for the purpose of introducing in the representation. I do not suppose that their own: but do they profess for the whole they would endeavour to recall and replace catholic body do they profess for the clergy upon the throne a branch of a family which as well as the laity; or do they only profess had been formally excluded. I do not sup- for then selves? I have looked at the petipose that they would endearour to take away tion, and I cannot find the hand of a single all the tithes from the protestant clergy for clergyman of the catholic persuasion affixed

purpose of giving them to their own; to it; and the reason assigned, as I underbut if a proposition were made to take away stand, is, that it is a petition for civil rights, part of the tithes from the protestant clergy, in which they could not participate. The

for the purpose of conferring them on the catholic clergy have not abjured the expecI

catholic clergy, I am not sure that many tation of being restored to all the dignities worthy men may not be found in this house which were possessed by them previous to to entertain it; and, in the event of a divi- the reformation ; and if they had, I should sion, I am sure the catholic representation not have thought so well of them as I do. would be as a dead weight in the scale.' I Have they not their bishoprics, their deanshall not take up the time of the house in eries, and all the gradations which are to be considering all the objections to which, in found in the established church? And that particular respect, the motion is liable. knowing this, who can say that they have I will content myself with proving that it is relinquished all hopes of enjoying the emorepugnant to a solemn stipulation between luments appertaining to those dignities? Ireland and Great Britain, and in doing that, One of their tenets is, and of which any I shall furnish, I trust, sufficient matter for member who goes into a bookseller's shop rejecting it. "The stipulation to which I al- may convince himself, that they are bound lude is that contained in the fifth article of to pay tithes only to their lawful pastors. the act of union, which expressly mentions, Nay, some persons have carried the princithat the protestant church is to be the esta- ple much further. A Mr. M'Kenna, a very blished church of the state. It is said that able man I will acknowledge, has proposed, the measure would put an end to all disaffec- in a treatise of much learning and ingenuity, tion, and yet, in the very same breath, gen- that thirty or forty acres of land should be tlemen assert that none exists. I would purchased in every parish in Ireland, and a agree with them in the praises which they house should be built on it for the catholic have bestowed upon the loyalty of the ca- clergyman. Is not this a plain indication of tholics, and admit that the rebellion in Ire- the extent of their hopes and ;-rospects ? No land was not a rebellion of catholics; and man can entertain a doubt that it is their inthat no greater number of that persuasion clination to propagate their religion by every were to be found in it than might be expect- means in their power. This is a principle ed in a country whose population was in so inseparable from the character of every reli.



gion. Were I in a catholic country, profes- shall have once obtained, will only tend to sing the religion I do, I should feel an in- stimulate them to fresh demands, until nodination to advance that religion ; and so it thing remains for them to require, and they is natural to expect the catholics would do, become not merely a prevailing party in the whenever they had an opportunity. I am state, but exclusively the state for itself. not so sanguine as the hon. mover, in his ex- For those reasons I will vote against the mopectations of the advantages that are to result tion for referring this petition to a comfrom the measure proposed. I no not think mittee. it would produce conciliation in Ireland, or Mr. Alexander. -Sir, unwilling as I am give that satisfaction to the catholic body at all times to obtrude myself upon the atthat is asserted. On the contrary, the effect tention of the house, yet I feel too deeply of it, in my opinion, would be, to bring the interested upon the present occasion to be two sects nearer to each other, and conse- awed from expressing my sentiments. When quently to increase that spirit of rivalship the right hon. gent. who has just sat down and jealousy which has unfortunately sub- feels so much embarrassed under the imsisted between them. (Murmurs of impa- pression

(Murmurs of impa- pression created by the very eloquent tience.) I claim the indulgence of the speeches of both the hon. members who house for a few moments longer. I see have preceded him in support of the petithere is no great disposition to listen to me; tion, I cannot deny that I too have my feel. and after the manner in which the attention ings under that impression ; but I should ill

; of the house has been gratified by the elo- perform the duty I owe to my conscience, quent and able member who has just ad- to the crown and my country, if I gave way dressed it for the first time, I am aware that to them. I own my national pride is cerany thing which falls from nie must appear tainly gratified by the attention paid to the flat and uninteresting. I think that no al talents of the hon. gent. who spoke last but ternative can exist between keeping the es- one; but I can never forget, that I have tablishment we have, and putting a Roman witnessed those talents employed successcatholic establishment in its place. If gen- fully in beating down the laws and constitutlemen can make up their minds to that, tion of his country: (Loud cries of no! they may conciliate Ireland, but not other- no!) I do not accuse the hon. gent. of dewise ; or perhaps they may enter into a sign; but he has amplified so much on the treaty with Buonaparté to allow the pope to strength of the physical nunbers of what he grant them another concordat. This ap- has called the Irish people, has asserted and pears to me to be the only true way of sta- painted their imaginary grievances in such ting the question. The immunities which high colouring, that there grew in the minds have been already granted to the catholics, of an influenced and infatuated peasantry, a I think, are sufficient, and there is one of conviction that they had just motives for re

; them, I mean the elective franchise, which, bellion, and strength to accomplish their obhad I been a member of the legislature, Iject. What admits of nodoubt,and which Icünshould have felt an inclination to oppose, and not forget, is, that the honourable member's also the Roman catholic college. What pri- conduct and sentiments prevented his takvilege is there which the catholics do not ing any share in putting down that rebellion ; enjoy, with the exception of sitting in par- prevented him from manifesting active loyliament, and the capacity of being appointed alty, or exposing himself with other gentleto a few great offices, in as full and complete men to common exertions, common incona manner as those who profess the establish- veniences, and common dangers. With ed religion? They have nothing to desire on such recollections I feel it a duty to withthe score of toleration, that they and every stand all impressions made upon my mind other dissenter from the established church by the talents and reputation of the honourdo not enjoy as fully as they could wish. able member, and to recall the attention of Anxious as I am to conciliate so impor- the house to the arguments of the gentleman tant a member of the empire, I cannot who has opened the debate. That hon. bring myself to approve of the measure pro- gent. has stated truly from archdeacon Paley, posed by the hon. mover, If the demands that tests were introduced when religious of the petitioners were conceded to their sentiments and religious interests were so numbers, and their majority, no possibility universally connected and diffused through would remain of refusing to comply with certain classes in the community, as to be a. any future deinands they may think proper proof of a determined purpose of action, to make. What their numbers and majority and that public necessity justified a general

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