who wished to overturn the constitution; | ciated as Friends of the People. And they had stopped others from going over here he begged to be clearly understood to their party; but he feared they had not as not intending the slightest reflection made one proselyte. These men had now on a very respectable body of gentlemen, found it to their advantage to pretend publicly associated, under a similar appelthat no danger had happened; like house-lation, in another place; for their purpose breakers who rested on their arms, and affected ignorance, when on the eye of detection by the family whom their efforts had awakened; but who resolved, as soon as suspicion should be laid asleep, to renew their atrocities. Mr. Windham spoke of the obstinate incredulity of the hon. gentleman in persisting to think that the alarm throughout the country was created by administration as a pretext for their subsequent conduct; and asserted that the evidence of danger was indubitable, and such as the majority of the House had sanctioned by its assent. He therefore totally disapproved of the present motion. Mr. Martin said, that the conduct of ministers would have met his approbation, could he have believed that grounds of alarm really existed; but he believed no such thing. The Lord Mayor (Sir James Saunderson) said, that Mr. Windham had so ably answered the arguments of the hon.mover, that he would not attempt to enter much at large into the subject; but with the leave of the House, he should take the liberty to state a few facts, which, though they might not tend to strengthen the general opinion of the House as to the existence of Jacobin societies and seditious practices in the capital, might perhaps contribute a little to remove the persevering credulity of the hon. mover. Soon after the promulgation of the king's proclamation in May, he had felt it his particular duty, as approaching to the high station in the city which he had now the honour to fill, to make diligent inquiry into the nature and end of those dangerous practices at that time stated to prevail; in consequence of which, he was soon apprized, not by anonymous or hearsay information, but by the evidence of parties who were present, and who, for the purpose of putting the magistrates on their guard, and from a true regard to the safety and welfare of the country, had affected to engage in all the mad and desperate projects at that time in agitation, that numerous societies were formed in the metropolis, frequently assembling, under the specious pretext, certainly, of obtaining a reforma in parliament, or asso had been openly and manfully avowed, and the rank of the parties and the great stake which several of them held in the country, made it absolutely impossible for them to be implicated, in the slightest degrec, by what he should offer to the House. But the fact was, that under one or the other of those denominations, those societies which had been checked during the summer, by the progress of the allied powers, became exceedingly active, and increased in proportion to the reverse which followed; 8 or 900 new members being admitted in one week. These societies adopted in the widest extreme the principles of Tom Paine, and inculcated under the name of a reform in parliament, principles totally subversive of our happy constitution. French opinions were recommended uniformly and artfully at all the various clubs, and disseminated with the utmost industry, into all the corners of the kingdom, and under the forms of French modes, assembling by the phrases of "Citizen and Equal," "No King," "No Nobles,' "No clergy," were the subjects of their discussions; and the only remedy pointed out by the leaders, was the desperate extremity of creating a new organ, namely, a convention of Englishmen; it being roundly asserted, that parliament itself was too corrupt to admit of any other resource. Those views appearing to him equally monstrous and incredible, he had given to them but little of credence until he found, about the period when he took the mayoralty chair, that the information, which had been given to him so early as the middle of September, of an address to the National Convention, from several of those societies, a measure which he then disbelieved was actually presented, and favourably received at the bar of that body of legislators: he became from that moment pretty well convinced of the authenticity and value of his communications, and he put it fairly to the House to decide, whether, under the cir cumstances stated, he was not bound in duty to take every measure which prudence could suggest, both of precaution and prevention. And the citizens of London, to their immortal honour, had so warmly seconded his endeavours, that those societies were considerably checked; and they carried to the foot of the throne, their loyal and grateful thanks to his majesty, for his paternal care in assembling his parliament; and taking those wise and vigorous measures which had secured the peace of the capital, and the happiness and welfare of the country. The steps in the mean time taken in the city, were neither harsh nor oppressive. The magistrates only informing the publicans to be on their guard against the admission of bodies of men unknown to the neighbourhood, because wherever seditious assemblies should be permitted, their licence could not be renewed; and in all the cases of anonymous information, it was his constant rule to act upon them in no other way, than by sending for the parties, stating the circumstances, hearing their answer, and then dismissing them with friendly advice. Before he sat down, he would reply to the observation of the hon. mover on the subject of a sixpenny society expelled from the King's Arms in Cornhill. That society usually consisted of six or seven hundred persons, who met weekly for the purpose of discussing political subjects, of a delicate and important nature. It so happened, that information was brought to him, that on the evening preceding the interruption alluded to, the chairman publicly declared, without any material opposition, that he held republican principles; and, after stating to the company details of riots in sundry places, and particularly an attempt to plant the tree of liberty in Dundee, he added, that "he lamented we were not so forward." Notwithstanding this, his lordship acted only in that business on the general application of the deputy, common council, and other inhabitants of the ward, and at the particular request of the owner of the house, who honestly expressed to him his strong dislike of their late proceedings, and his determination to put a stop to them; for which purpose, he claimed the protection of the civil power. His lordship concluded with submitting his conduct to the judgment of the House, and declaring that he should vote against the motion. lessened, from the reflection, that great part of its object had been already obtained; for to have drawn from his hon. friend, now so strenuous a supporter of, and so much in the confidence of the minister, a total disavowal of all those supposed plots and insurrections by which the late alarm had been excited, was undoubtedly a great point gained. His hon. friend had now expressly acknowledged, that no insurrections or plots, in the sense meant by the mover of the present question, had ever existed. But did this agree with what had been held out by ministers? No: plots and insurrections of different kinds, and in different places, had been held forth; a conspiracy had even been talked of for taking possession of the Tower, and the time specified when it was to have taken place. All this, however, was now given up. His hon. friend seemed fond of dealing altogether in generals, and in his support of the present administration, he had adopted the prudent plan of giving up both fact and argument; for he could otherwise give them no consistent support. He complained of being misrepresented when he was stated to have said that he gave ministers his support, because he entertained a bad opinion of them: but he did unquestionably say, that his obligation to strengthen the executive government might become, on that account, the more binding. There seemed, therefore, little ground to complain of misrepresentation. Was it however, said Mr. Fox, or could it be deemed unreasonable, that the denial now given by his hon. friend should be given formally by the House, that they might give a vote of quiet to the minds of the people? This, the fortifications at the Tower, and other circumstances calculated to impress the minds of the people with serious alarm, rendered the more indispensably requisite.-Mr. Fox next adverted to what had been said of the clubs at Cromer, in Norfolk; and urged, that if his hon. friend had been so much misinformed, as he had undoubtedly been, with respect to what had happened in a village within two miles of his own house, he should have hoped it might have led Mr. Fox said, that from the speech of him to be more jealous of the information his hon. friend (Mr. Windham) at least he received as to other clubs and associatill towards the conclusion of it, he had tions. Mr. Fox said, that he and his hoped for a speedy determination of the friends were not obstinate infidels; they debate. He would not say, that he was desired only to be convinced, and would not much interested in the fate of the pre-readily alter their opinion if they saw any sent motion, but his anxiety was greatly reasonable evidence to induce them so to [VOL. XXX.] [2 N] spirators and traitors? He and his friends might be supposed to speak as if they felt galled upon the subject. He owned he did speak with some such feeling, because he knew it had been confidently said, that letters had been written by him and his friends, to persons in France, of a dangerous tendency, and that it was only owing to the lenity of ministers that they were not produced. If ministers were in possession of any such letters, he challenged them to the proof. But he should be told, it was an awkward thing to produce letters opened at the post-office. To that he should answer, the awkwardness was in opening them at the post-office. It did, however, so happen, that for, he believed, more than two years, he had not had oc except one to an English friend (lord Lauderdale) when at Paris. Again he should be told, that he had seen Frenchmen in this country; that he had seen the French minister. He had seen Frenchmen here, and had seen the French minister; but he had yet to learn that it was any crime for him or any gentleman to see the minister sent to our court from any country. He knew of no law by which members of parliament, like senators of Venice, were prohibited from even conversing with the ministers of foreign states. Was it not a situation of the country horrible to relate, that men's correspondence and conversation were to be pried into with such inquisitorial jealousy, as to make it dangerous for them to commit their thoughts to paper, or to converse with a stranger but in the presence of a third person? do. As to what had been said by his hon. friend, that no pretext had been held forth by ministers to justify the proclamations for calling out the militia, and for the meeting of parliament, but that they had fairly and distinctly stated the fact; he mut beg leave to observe, that a true fact might frequently be used as a false pretext; and here, by his hon. friend's own account of the matter, the insurrections satisfied at most but the letter of the law; while a cause totally different, and unconnected either with these insurrections or with the purview of the act of parliament, was recurred to in order to satisfy the spirit of the act. The worthy chief magistrate for the city had observed, that the number of disaffected had decreased in November, but that they now in-casion to write a single letter to France, creased. And was not a war the very means of procuring such increase; Mr. Fox now adverted to the proceedings of Mr. Reeves's association in receiving and considering anonymous informations, and transmitting them to government; which he reprobated in the strongest and most emphatical terms, as destructive both of the peace and character of individuals in all probability innocent, and totally subversive of every principle of liberty.-With respect to the present circumstances of the country, Mr. Fox said it was undoubtedly true, that many of those friends whom he highly respected, and with whom he had long been accustomed to think and act, entertained a much greater degree of alarm than he did, and, of course, differed with him in some degree as to the extent of the support which should be given at this time to the executive government. They acted, he knew, on the most honourable principles; and he had the satisfaction also to know, that that temporary disagreement in opinion on the present occasion, made no difference whatever in the great line of their political principles; in their disapprobation both of the general system of the present administration, and of the way by which they came into office. He said, that the direct lie had now been given to the contents of many pamphlets equally dangerous with any of Paine's books, particularly one, called the Dream of an Englishman, and others; which had been industriously circulated to spread alarm and distress over the face of the country. Was it to be held a justifiable expedient of government to tell the public, that treasons and conspiracies existed, and neither to prosecute nor endeavour to discover the con Let the House do away all these suspicions and rumours by an honest inquiry, and restore the public to that freedom and confidence, both of writing and speech, which it was the pride of our constitution to bestow, and which became the frank and open character of a free people.-His hon. friend had said, that these plotters against the constitution were only quiet like a gang of housebreakers who had disturbed the family, watching for an opportunity to repeat the attempt: but what would be the conduct of his hon. friend if he were really alarmed by housebreakers? Would he make no inquiry to discover the gang, and thereby prevent them from repeating the attempt? Or would he adopt the spirit of a bill once proposed in that House, in consequence of numerous burglaries, of which Jews were suspected to be the perpetrators? The tenor of this bill was, that any Jew or suspected person seen looking down an area, should be guilty of death. If the House refused to inquire into the grounds of the suspicions to which they had given the sanction of their belief, they put every person upon whom suspicion fell into almost as bad a situation as the suspected persons under such a bill. A circumstance respecting the secession of some gentlemen from the Whig club had been alluded to,which he could have wished had not been mentioned in that place. The hon. gentleman said he had canvassed for no persons to join him in that secession: but was not the very mode in which he had done it a canvass? He was sure that the hon. gentleman was his friend, because he told him so he knew that he was the friend of the hon. gentleman; but had he no other proofs but the circumstance just mentioned, and the publication connected with it, he should not be so presumptuous as to hope that any friendship existed between them. His hon. friend, whom he never suspected of intending to support administration in any other mode than that which he professed, was, perhaps, raising a sort of independent corps, and some might be induced to join it, preferring that mode of quitting their old friends to a more open desertion. But his hon. friend would recollect, that these independent companies, when once raised, where always incorporated with the regular battalions. The operation of fear was not easily calculated, when they saw already that it had made a chancellor. To his hon. friend it had produced only reputation. He was now extolled as one of the very first men in the country, not for those virtues and abilities that well entitled him to the rank, but for his quick sense of alarm, and his perseverance in dismay. When fear could thus confer both profit and reputation, there was no saying to what men might aspire by this glorious kind of magnanimous timidity. Mr. Fox concluded with declaring, that he was still incredulous, and should vote for inquiry; which was never more necessary than when the situation of the country was apprehended to be dangerous. Mr. Windham, in explanation, said, he had stated that insurrections, however they might justify the conduct of ministers, were not the ground of his opinions, or of his conduct, but the general state of the country. With respect to the conduct of Mr. Reeves, he had praised only in general terms his giving birth to the associations which had done so much good. With the mode of receiving anonymous information, he was not acquainted, he had not commended it, and he was not prepared to condemn it. He begged to be understood as giving no opinion upon it; if in any proceeding which he had thought it his duty to adopt, there was an air of hostility to his right hon. friend, there was no man that lamented it more sincerely than himself. Mr. Burke said, that as they were divided into the alarmed and the alarmists, it was a great addition to his alarm, to hear a great statesman advance principles, which our government, and every rational society, totally disclaimed. The right hon. gentleman had said, in substance, that if a domestic faction was combined with a foreign enemy, we must not declare war againt the foreign enemy, for fear of strengthening the domestic faction. Very differently had our ancestors thought and acted at the Revolution, in the reign of queen Anne, of George 1st, and George 2d; at each of those periods there were many persons at home dissatisfied with the government, but that did not deter ministers from declaring war against France. To be deterred by any such motive, would be to declare faction triumphant. To the reverse of such policy was it owing that we had been able to preserve our monarchy, our Peers, and our Commons. Were we to wait till France could turn against us the force of the countries she had conquered and pillaged? for that was her mode of making war. Till Dumourier had plundered the bank of Amsterdam, so intimately connected with the bank of Eng land, that they might be said to be the same?-The hon. gentleman had opened his motion in a style of gaiety which, in another person, might have been thought to savour of malignity; but his arguments were not very conclusive. If it was said that the ministers had excited a false alarm, from their terrors of a parliamentary reform, it might be asked, whence came those terrors? Neither the hon. mover, nor his hon. friend near him (Mr. Grey), though they were always talking of reform, had ever made any motion on the subject. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Fox) had always declared, that he had never seen any plan of reform of which he thought so well as to propose it to the House; aud it was not very candid in any man, who saw the subject in that point of view, to be goading others to undertake it. The minister had done more on the subject than any man in the House-more than he thought it wise for any man to do. He had twice moved it in parliament, and once got it recommended from the throne; the latter was a measure of which he most pointedly disapproved, as tending to make the people believe that they were not pro. perly represented. He had heard many motions for these reforms, and had always opposed, but never dreaded them, while previous steps were not taken to infuse into the people distrust and contempt of their representatives. He said, he had ever been and continued to be an enemy to a parliamentary reform, because he thought that a proposition of the kind was a mode of telling the people that they were not represented, at a time when that House effected every object of representation, and answered all the purposes of good government; and he therefore conceived it to be a measure that would endanger a main and essential part of the constitution of the country. Mr. Burke expressed a hope that Mr. Grey had given up his intention of making a motion respecting a reform in parliament, and presuming that either that was the case, or that the hon. gentleman meant to delay it for a while, he commended his prudence. Whether something might not be done to correct unimportant defects here or there, he neither knew nor cared, while the general sys. tem was preserved entire; and to that he feared no danger from sober discussion in that House, independent of factious combinations abroad. The war, Mr. Burke said, gave no solid increase of power to the minister. By it he hazarded much more than he could gain. He risked that which was the basis of his popularity, his system of finance; and consequently had no motives of personal interest for doing that late which he ought to have done early. The victorious enemy whom we had to engage (and sorry he was to say that they were victorious) had long been connected with a faction at home, whose object was, to force us into an alliance with the French, for the purpose of jointly propagating their mischievous principles. To prove this, he read extracts from the correspondence of the Revolution Society in 1791 with twenty-seven Jacobin societies in France, and the names of the members of the committee of correspondence for that year, to show that they were not men of mean station or inconsiderable influence. Of the soms ran, Clasp'd in th' embraces of the godlike man!” At Manchester a subscription was opened for the widows of the Marseillois who fell |