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will lose any thing by this participation. | power, if the patronage, inseparable from The trade of India, I believe, neither can the possession of the territorial acquibe effectually engrossed, nor is it worth sitions and from the administration of the their keeping. But I object to the fallacy revenues of India, were directly vested and fraud of calling it any longer an ex- in the crown. This, it seems, would inclusive charter. The right hon. gentle- deed be a formidable source of corrupman has made himself personally answer- tion, if left to the disposal of the king's able to all the parties I have named for ministers, and a just occasion of jealousy the specific performance of his engage- to parliament. But, as long as the paments to each of them. Of his success I tronage of India stands in the name of a have many doubts; but let him perform trading company, and is supposed to be his promises if he can. Whether they are distributed by a court of directors, all is effectuated or not, they ought to be con- safe. You have nothing to fear for the sidered, in the present deliberation, as independence of parliament. Ministers bribes, not as arguments. The principle take no share in the appointments to party of all, in this great legislative ar- India. The influence of the crown is not rangement, is completely abandoned and increased. Sir, I ask you, and every forgotten; I mean the natives of India. man who hears me, is there any sincerity He may possibly make good his promises in this language? Is it a fair and honourto all the other parties, and yet not ad- able dealing among men? I ask the vance a single step towards the better go- right hon. gentleman himself, where is vernment of India. On that subject, I this dangerous patronage vested at predo not recollect that he has said one word. sent? Will he descend from that characHe tells us indeed that it is his intention ter of frankness which his friends attribute to continue the admirable system esta- to him, and which he professes himself blished for the administration of the three presidencies, that is, a single person with absolute power, and a non-effective council with great salaries and no authority. The name of a council, I suppose, is sufficient. You have a nominal council abroad, as you have a nominal direction at home, and with just as much capacity to advise as they have power to control. Look through the whole of the right hon. gentleman's system, and you will see that the pervading essence and principle of it is, in every instance, to divide the ostensible from the real power, and to make one of them a cloak and shelter for the other.

With respect to the renewal of the company's exclusive charter to trade to India, I have already said that I do not object to it. My doubt is, whether in effect it can be made exclusive, and whether it is even seriously intended to be what the title of the measure professes. As for the affirmative motives, which induce the right hon. gentleman to recommend a renewal of the charter, and the arguments with which he supports it, I declare I cannot at this moment recollect one of them that seemed to me to have either truth, reason, or common sense in it. First of all, the right hon. gentleman professes to be seriously and excessively alarmed himself, and to suppose that we should be so too, at the immoderate increase of influence which would be thrown into the hands of the executive

will he submit to say that it is bona fide left to the court of directors to dispose of the powerful and lucrative offices of India; that governors and councillors, that the judges and their train, that the commanders of armies, general and field officers, the chiefs of provinces, and the collectors of revenue, are really and unequivocally subject to the unbiassed nomination of the court of directors? We all know that directly the reverse is the fact, and that, in all the great and lucrative departments of government, the directors have no more real power than I have. Like other individuals, if they want a service or a favour, they must carry their solicitations to the fountain head, that is, to the right hon. gentleman himself, who pretends to be so much shocked at the thoughts of patronage, and at the suspicion of possessing it. Concerning the future arrangement of the immense standing army in India, the right hon. gentleman has not thought proper to say one word; yet, in that department alone, every man must know that the means of influence and favour are unlimited. Does he mean to separate the military from its dependence on the civil power, or to exercise this, as he does every other, through the medium of the directors? But, to cure us of all our apprehensions on the subject of influence, the right hon. gentleman resorts to a distinction which, I think, would never have occurred to any but a

they could do, being already well paid for doing nothing. But things are altered since this doctrine prevailed. It has done its duty. The board is established, and now the members of it, whose services were intended to be gratuitous, must have five thousand pounds a year divided among them.

very lively imagination. He does not po-
sitively deny that, in the disposal of the
great situations and offices to which I
have alluded, the influence of govern-
ment does not predominate, or at least
take a considerable share. But this petty
patronage, it seems, is not worth your
notice, and ought to excite no apprehen-
sion. You have nothing to fear, it would
be ridiculous to be alarmed, as long as
the appointment of writers is left, as he
assures you it is, at the absolute disposal
of the court of directors! At the same
time the right hon. gentleman is candid
enough to admit, that he certainly has in-
terest enough with the directors to obtain
a writership, if he thought fit to apply for
one. I do not doubt it. What I admire
is the wit and pleasantry with which he
exalts the importance and value of this
branch of Indian patronage at the expense
of the rest. All the powerful and lucra-
tive offices of India, to which salaries and
emoluments of many thousands a year
are annexed, are of no moment in the
question of influence, and vanish in the
comparison with that important and va-
luable privilege, which he bountifully
leaves to the directors, namely the ap-
pointment of writers! Now why it should
be so extremely valuable to those gentle-
men, unless they sell their nominations,
I cannot comprehend. Some of them I
know have been suspected of such a prac-
tice. But, in this sense, the value of the
privilege is venal, and gives no influence.
In my mind, the right hon. gentleman has
overstated the importance of these ap-
pointments. I believe that this branch
of the company's service has been greatly
overloaded. You see the numbers, who
return to England with fortunes; but you
hear nothing and take no notice of a far
greater number, who languish in India
in narrow circumstances, or perish there
overwhelmed with distress. The first
class, I very much fear, are not to be com-
pared with the second. The right hon.
gentleman is earnest in deprecating the
imputation of wishing to increase the in-
fluence of the crown. But he has some
serious objections to the present consti-
tution of the board of control. One of
the original recommendations of that
board was, that the business belonging to
it would be performed by persons already
possessed of some high and lucrative of
fices, but not attended with much occu-
pation, whose time was disengaged, and
who wanted no salaries for any service

The right hon. gentleman having, in this way, secured himself against all suspicion of aiming at a dangerous influence, for himself or for government, by means of the patronage of India, proceeds to state the inconveniences, the difficulties, and the dangers, which he conceives would follow, if the trade were laid open. On this point, I desire it once more to be remembered that I am at issue with him upon his arguments, not upon his professed object. The renewal of the charter may be proper, may be necessary, or may be convenient, but not for any of the reasons which he has assigned. He asks us, would you encourage a spirit of colonization in India? Can England bear the drain of such numbers of its people as would emigrate with that view, if the trade were laid open? Would there not be a considerable probability that many of those emigrants might be tempted to quit your proper territory, and enter into the military service of native powers, and by that means prove dangerous to your own establishment? My answer is, that the first part of the danger he alludes to is imaginary; the rest is better founded, but not all provided for by the renewal of the charter. The climate of India is of itself a sufficient security against emigration of any consequence from England, for the real purpose of colonization. The real colonist can only subsist by the labours of the field, and the cultivation of the soil. Be assured that these labours will never be performed in India, by British hands. Except persons who are in office, no man goes to India, but to gather taxes, to trade, or to plunder, that is, to make a fortune as fast as he can by any means, and to bring it away with him. The abuse, against which you are bound to provide, and which can no way be restrained but by a vigorous administration on the spot, prevails at present, and, more or less, has existed at all

times,--I mean the facility, which adventurers of all sorts have found, in dispersing themselves over the country, where the licentiousness of their conduct, and the mischiefs it produces, are enor

the truth comes out, because it suits an immediate purpose to confess it. The proprietors of India stock have not profited at all by the possession of an immense territorial revenue. I, for one, am convinced they have lost by it. The hon. gentleman says, that the directors are busily employed in forming some excellent schemes for improving and extending the export trade of England to India, by finding out new markets for the manufactures and staple commodities of this country; and that these beneficial plans would necessarily be defeated, if the exclusive trade were taken out of their hands. In the first place, Sir, I very much question the possibility of increasing our exports to India to any material amount, I mean with a rational security of finding a profitable vent for them. Except military stores, ammunition, and other implements of war, with which it is not your true policy to furnish the Indian princes, the manufactures of England can hardly be said to be saleable in India, beyond the trifling amount necessary for the consumption of Europeans. The company by their charter were compelled to send out a large quantity of broad cloth every year, and there it was left to perish in the warehouses. The select committee of directors. in one of their late reports on this subject, say that "they can give the court no pleasing intelligence; that the advices from India on this subject present a tiresome narrative of circumstances, which prevent their progress, and a profit on the sales. Too often they even state a total failure in the demand, &c. So far from the presidencies being able to augment these sales, they complain generally of an evident decrease with respect to woollens of every denomination. Large quantities have remained for years in the company's warehouses unsold." The government of Bombay repeatedly tell the directors, that they can find no purchasers, and express much uneasiness at seeing such a quantity of cloth and long ells perishing in the warehouses year after year, after striving ineffectually to procure a sale, &c. But supposing the contrary were true, and that the export trade to India were in its nature capable of being improved and extended, what reason is there to presume that this object might not be as effectually obtained by an open trade, as by an exclusive company? I fear you will find that, as long as the manufactures of India are worth bringing to Europe, you must pay

mous. Of persons of this description, many, I do not doubt, have engaged in the service of the native princes. There lies the danger. The abuse is real. The mischief serious. Remove them if you can. They have grown with the company's charter, and cannot be corrected by renewing it. The right hon. gentleman is vehement in asserting that, if the charter were not renewed, many essential advantages would be lost to this country and to the government, and that there is no way of securing them, but by confining the trade to an exclusive company, and vesting that company with the collection and management of the territorial revenues. He says truly, that the surplus of the revenue can no way be remitted home but by the medium of trade; and then he asks how is that remittance to be made? How is government to get their 500,000l. a year? How are the proprietors to get their increased dividend, if the trade be not continued to the company, in the form, and with the powers, with which it is now vested in them? My answer is, that if there be that surplus of revenue of which he proposes to avail himself, the amount of it might be paid into the company's commercial treasuries in India for bills on the company in England, and that this might be done, and every purpose of the remittance answered, just as well as it is at present, if the commerce were separated from the government, or even if the exclusive charter were not renewed. The company might still be the medium of the remittance. They would buy their cargoes with the money furnished them by government on the spot, and out of the produce of those cargoes the claims of all parties in England might be satisfied. With or without the management of the territory, with or without the monopoly, the India company might still be the channel and the instrument of this service to the public. The same answer applies to the intended increase of the dividend, recommended in favour of the proprietors, who, he says, have hitherto received but a very moderate profit, compared with the great capital engaged by them in this trade, and the risks to which they have been exposed. His words, I think, were, that "out of a revenue of 3,700,000l. which they brought into England, they had for their own use no more than 400,000l. a year, a sum hardly equal to the legal interest of their capital, considering the many risks which they ran." Here at last

be so.

for them in specie. The possession of the territorial revenues has made it unnecessary to send silver to Bengal; and that I take to be one of the principal advantages we have derived from it. But, on the other hand, the export of bullion to China has considerably increased. In seven years, from 1785 to 1791 inclusive, I find it stated by the committee of directors to have amounted to 4,352,021/., or above 621,7177. a year. It is true the directors tell us that the export of silver to China is likely to decrease hereafter. It may At present we have facts on one side, and estimates on the other. In another part of the same report," the committee do not "scruple to affirm, that the most lucrative and beneficial mode of carrying on the trade with China from Europe is by the export of bullion; yet the company have anxiously seized every opportunity of introducing British manufactures and produce into China, notwithstanding they could have derived superior advantages from a different conduct." The patriotism of the present directors is sufficient to assure us, that they will be at all times ready to sacrifice the interest of the India company to that of the public. But what if unfortunately they should be succeeded by persons of a more confined way of thinking, who may possibly feel themselves bound to prefer the particular advantage of their constituents to the commercial interests of the nation at large? Now, Sir, I beg leave to ask the hon. gentleman, in my turn, whether, if every thing he urges in favour of renewing the charter were granted, is he sure that it is in his power, or in that of the legislature, to make the trade to India really and de facto exclusive in the hands of the company? Can he exclude Ireland from partaking in it? and would he, if he could, while he knows that the Bengal river is annually crowded with ships from America, as well as from different parts of Europe, navigating under foreign colours, but really freighted by British subjects and loaded at Calcutta with cargoes bought with their money, and to be afterwards smuggled into the British dominions? About three weeks ago, the hon. gentleman told thecourt of directors, cavalierly enough, but not without reason, that "he was not anxious about what their decision might be; being of opinion, that the grant of an exclusive commerce to India was not very material to the interests either of the East India company or of

the public. If so, the committee perhaps may be curious to know, for what reason he now insists so vehemently on the necessity of renewing the charter. Was he in earnest in that declaration, or did he only make use of it as an artificial menace to drive the directors to his purpose?

I have given you my opinion of as many of the particulars of the hon. gentleman's propositions, as I have been able to recollect. If the plan of continuing the government of so great a territory in the hands of a trading company were real and effective, if it seriously meant what it professed, I should think it liable to the most serious and solid objections. But, when I know that directly the reverse is the fact, when I see the name of the company held up as a mask and a stalking horse to shelter the operations of a real power which skulks behind it, that this power engrosses every thing, while it pretends to take nothing, I should be afraid of using unparliamentary language, if I permitted myself to say what I think of the whole measure. I mean therefore to express myself with caution, with reserve and moderation, when I say, that it is a dangerous composition of bad principles with worse practice, of absurd theories carried into execution in the most suspicious form of fallacy and delusion from beginning to end. operation pretending to genius or contrivance, what is it but a poor, flat, pitiful conclusion from premises that announced aud demanded some grand measure, some capital arrangement, the result of deep inquiry and penetration, conducted with industry and enlightened by experience, and fit to be proposed by a statesman, to the legislature of a great kingdom, for the better government of another? I cannot believe it possible that this can be the plan which the right hon gentleman has had hitherto in view. If it be, I am sure that all his ostensible labours and inquiries about Indian affairs have been completely thrown away.

As an

General Smith thought the right hon. secretary would have been wanting to himself, to the company, and to the country, if he had brought forward propositions of any other nature than those which he had done. He was decidedly against an open trade. So far from the company's affairs having been better before they had territorial possessions, lord Clive's successes in 1757 were the salvation of the company; for had not those successes

happened, they would have been bankrupt. The possessions of the company were in a higher state of cultivation than those of any nabob in the country.

The resolution was agreed to. After which, the chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again.

Debate on Mr. Sheridan's Motion respecting Lord Auckland's Memorial to the States General.] April 25. Mr. Sheridan said, that the motion which he should have the honour of submitting to the House, was one that not only involved the character of the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer and the whole of his majesty's ministers, but also the character of the British nation. It had in view the calling for an explanation of the real intent, nature, purpose, and object of the war in which we were engaged. In the course of the discussions which had taken place on the present war, on one subject there had been a concurrence of opinion, whatever difference subsisted on others- that the increasing power and ambitious views of France should be resisted and our allies protected. On the subject of the war, three different opinions had prevailed; the first thought it a war of necessity, but limited as to its objects. The second, in which he classed, thought that no administration should permit the independence of this country to be in danger from the exorbitant power of France, or the rights of our allies to be invaded; yet, thinking the security of this country, and indemnification to Holland might have been obtained by negociation, they thought the war, at the period it occurred, not necessary. A third class viewed the power of France as much less pernicious than the principles she had adopted, and abhorring the conduct of those in authority there, thought vengeance and extermination to those men and those principles were objects which this country was bound in interest and in duty to pursue. He, and those with whom he had the pleasure to agree, had endeavoured to draw from those gentlemen something like a definition of the extent to which their principles would lead them; but nothing like an explanation had been given upon that point. This day, however, he was determined to put that subject to the test, and he should maintain that ministers had abandoned the principles of the war, upon which alone they had the concurrence of the country, and

the only principle they themselves were fond of professing, namely, to keep faith with our allies, to check the aggrandizement of France, and to preserve the safety of this country. If in entering upon this subject any gentleman expected that he should be brought to pledge himself in the least degree with respect to the principles or the politics of lord Auckland, or that he should be influenced by any considerations with regard to that nobleman, such gentleman would certainly be disappointed; for he must frankly declare, that personally against him, or any other person in administration, he had no ill will, but at the same time he had no hesitation in saying, that he did not respect or esteem the man; he would say no more upon that subject, because he was not present; in all, therefore, that he should say of him, he begged to be understood as speaking of his majesty's minister at the Hague. In this view, he must say, that he disapproved of every memorial that noble lord had set his name to, from the first disturbances in France, down to the signing that of the 5th of the present month, upon which the motion he should conclude with would be founded. All he was concerned in was marked by a sort of officious ostentation, which ill became the character he ought to represent. Instead of the moderate language of a minister, desirous to show that he was only an ambassador, he appeared always in the style of a viceroy, whose business it was to dictate and command. The paper with which he announced the war with France was of this haughty, arrogant style, in which he called the national assembly of France miscreants. Such language was not only improper, but, under the circumstances of the case, inexcusable; it was not the effect of an overpowering warmth, which frequently accompanied the animation of debate: they were the cool, collected words of an ambassador, who ought to have reflected that he represented the king and the people of England, both of whom, he was sure, would be ashamed of such expressions. Such expressions could answer no good purpose; neither our soldiers nor our sailors would enlist the sooner, or fight the better for it; and the people of this country ought not to be supposed to agree to use harsh words against those who had the direction of the public force of a nation, still less that they could instruct their ambassador to be a blusterer: such conduct would be

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