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will lose any thing by this participation. power, if the patronage, inseparable from The trade of India, I believe, neither can the possession of the territorial acquibe effectually engrossed, nor is it worth sitions and from the administration of the their keeping. But I object to the fallacy revenues of India, were directly vested and fraud of calling it any longer an ex- in the crown. This, it seems, would inclusive charter. The right hon. gentle deed be a formidable source of corrupman has made himself personally answer- tion, if left to the disposal of the king's able to all the parties I have named for ministers, and a just occasion of jealousy the specific performance of his engage- to parliament. But, as long as the paments to each of them. Of his success Itronage of India stands in the name of a have many doubts ; but let him perform trading company, and is supposed to be his promises if he can. Whether they are distributed by a court of directors, all is effectuated or not, they ought to be con- safe. You have nothing to fear for the sidered, in the present deliberation, as independence of parliament. Ministers bribes, not as arguments. The principle take no share in the appointments to party of all, in this great legislative ar- India. The influence of the crown is not rangement, is completely abandoned and increased. Sir, I ask you, and every forgotten ; I mean the natives of India. man who hears me, is there any sincerity He may possibly make good his promises in this language? Is it a fair and honour to all the other parties, and yet not ad-able dealing among men ? I ask the vance a single step towards the better go- right hon. gentleman himself, where is vernment of India. On that subject, I this dangerous patronage vested at predo not recollect that he has said one word. sent? Will he descend from that characHe tells us indeed that it is his intention ter of frankness which his friends attribute to continue the admirable system esta- to him, and which he professes himself blished for the administration of the three –will he submit to say that it is bona fide presidencies, that is, a single person with left to the court of directors to dispose of absolute power, and a non-effective coun- the powerful and lucrative offices of India; cil with great salaries and no authority. that governors and councillors, that the The name of a council, I suppose, is suffi- judges and their train, that the commandcient. You have a nominal council abroad, ers of armies, general and field officers, as you have a nominal direction at home, the chiefs of provinces, and the collectors and with just as much capacity to advise of revenue, are really and unequivocally as they have power to control. Look subject to the unbiassed nomination of through the whole of the right hon. gen- the court of directors? We all know that tleman's system, and you will see that the directly the reverse is the fact, and that, pervading essence and principle of it is, in all the great and lucrative departments in every instance, to divide the ostensible of government, the directors have no from the real power, and to make one of more real power than I have. Like other them a cloak and shelter for the other. individuals, if they want a service or a

With respect to the renewal of the favour, they must carry their solicitations company's exclusive charter to trade to to the fountain head, that is, to the right India, I have already said that I do not hon. gentleman himself, who pretends to object to it. My doubt is, whether in ef. be so much shocked at the thoughts of fect it can be made exclusive, and whe- patronage, and at the suspicion of posther it is even seriously intended to be sessing it. Concerning the future arrangco what the title of the measure professes. ment of the immense standing army in As for the affirmative motives, which in India, the right hon. gentleman has not duce the right hon. gentleman to recom- thought proper to say one word; yet, in mend a renewal of the charter, and the that department alone, every man must arguments with which he supports it, 1 know that the means of influence and fa. declare I cannot at this moment recollect your are unlimited. Does he mean to seone of them that seemed to me to have parate the military from its dependence either truth, reason, or common on the civil power, or to exercise this, as in it. First of all, the right hon. gentle he does every other, through the me. man professes to be seriously and exces-dium of the directors ? But, to cure us sively alarmed himself, and to suppose of all our apprehensions on the subject of that we should be so too, at the immode influence, the right hon. gentleman rerate increase of influence which would be sorts to a distinction which, I think, thrown into the hands of the executive would never have occurred to any but a

sense

very lively imagination. He does not po- they could do, being already well paid sitively deny that, in the disposal of the for doing nothing. But things are altered great situations and offices to which I since this doctrine prevailed. It has done have alluded, the influence of govern- its duty. The board is established, and ment does not predominate, or at least now the members of it, whose services take a considerable share. But this petty were intended to be gratuitous, must patronage, it seems, is not worth your have five thousand pounds a year divided notice, and ought to excite no apprehen- among them. sion. You have nothing to fear, it would The right hon. gentleman having, in this be ridiculous to be alarmed, as long as way, secured himself against all suspicion the appointment of writers is left, as he of aiming at a dangerous influence, for assures you it is, at the absolute disposal himself or for government, by means of of the court of directors ! At the same the patronage of India, proceeds to state time the right hon. gentleman is candid the inconveniences, the difficulties, and enough to admit, that he certainly has in the dangers, which he conceives would terest enough with the directors to obtain follow, if the trade were laid

On a writership, if he thought fit to apply for this point, I desire it once more to be reone. I do not doubt it. What I admire membered that I am at issue with him is the wit and pleasantry with which he upon his arguments, not upon his proexalts the importance and value of this fessed object. The renewal of the charter branch of Indian patronage at the expense may be proper, may be necessary, or may of the rest. All the powerful and lucra- be convenient, but not for any of the tive offices of India, to which salaries and reasons which he has assigned. He asks emoluments of many thousands a year us, would you encourage a spirit of coloare annexed, are of no moment in the nization in India? Can England bear question of influence, and vanish in the the drain of such numbers of its people as comparison with that important and va- would emigrate with that view, if the trade luable privilege, which he bountifully were laid open ? Would there not be a leaves to the directors, namely the ap- considerable probability that many of pointment of writers! Now why it should those emigrants might be tempted to quit be so extremely valuable to those gentle- your proper territory, and enter into the men, unless they sell their nominations, military service of native powers, and by I cannot comprehend. Some of them I that means prove dangerous to your own know have been suspected of such a prac- establishment? My answer is, that the tice. But, in this sense, the value of the first part of the danger he alludes to is privilege is venal, and gives no influence. imaginary; the rest is better founded, In my mind, the right hon. gentleman has but not all provided for by the reoverstated the importance of these ap- newal of the charter. The climate of pointments. I believe that this branch India is of itself a sufficient securi of the company's service has been greatly against emigration of any consequence overloaded. You see the numbers, who from England, for the real purpose of return to England with fortunes; but you colonization. The real colonist can only hear nothing and take no notice of a far subsist by the labours of the field, and the greater number, who languish in India cultivation of the soil. Be assured that in narrow circumstances, or perish there these labours will never be performed in overwhelmed with distress. The first | India, by British hands. Except persons class, I very much fear, are not to be com- who are in office, no man goes to India, pared with the second. The right hon. but to gather taxes, to trade, or to plungentleman is earnest in deprecating the der, that is, to make a fortune as fast as imputation of wishing to increase the in- | he can by any means, and to bring it fluence of the crown. But he has some away with him. The abuse, against which serious objections to the present consti- you are bound to provide, and which can tution of the board of control. One of no way be restrained but by a vigorous the original recommendations of that administration on the spot, prevails at board was, that the business belonging to present, and, more or less, has existed at it would be performed by persons already all times.--I mean the facility, which adpossessed of some high and lucrative of. venturers of all sorts have found, in disfices, but not attended with much occu- persing themselves over the country, pation, whose time was disengaged, and where the licentiousness of their conduct, who wanted no salaries for any service and the mischiefs it produces, are enormous. Of persons of this description, the truth comes out, because it suits an many, I do not doubt, have engaged in immediate purpose to confess it. The the service of the native princes. There proprietors of India stock have not prolies the danger. The abuse is real. The fited at all by the possession of an immense mischief serious. Remove them if you territorial revenue. I, forone, am convinced can. They have grown with the company's they have lost by it. The hon. gentleman charter, and cannot be corrected by re- says, that the directors are busily employer newing it. The right bon. gentleman is in forming some excellent schemes for vehement in asserting that, if the charter improving and extending the export trade were not renewed, many essential advanta- of England to India, by finding out new ges would be lost to this country and to the markets for the manufactures and staple government, and that there is no way of commodities of this country; and that securing them, but by confining the trade these beneficial plans would necessarily to an exclusive company, and vesting that be defeated, if the exclusive trade were company with the collection and manage taken out of their hands. In the first ment of the territorial revenues. He says place, Sir, I very much question the truly, that the surplus of the revenue can possibility of increasing our exports to no way be remitted home but by the me- India to any material amount, I mean with dium of trade; and then he asks how is a rational security of finding a profitable that remittance to be made? How is vent for them. Except military stores, government to get their 500,0001. a year? ammunition, and other implements of war, How are the proprietors to get their in- with which it is not your true policy to creased dividend, if the trade be not con- furnish the Indian princes, the manufactinued to the company, in the form, and tures of England can hardly be said to be with the powers, with which it is now saleable in India, beyond the trifling vested in them? My answer is, that if amount necessary for the consumption of there be that surplus of revenue of which Europeans. The company by their charhe proposes to avail himself, the amount ter were compelled to send out a large of it might be paid into the company's quantity of broad cloth every year, and commercial treasuries in India for bills on there it was left to perish in the warethe company in England, and that this houses. The select committee of directors. might be done, and every purpose of the in one of their late reports on this subject, remittance answered, just as well as it is say that “they can give the court no at present, if the commerce were separated pleasing intelligence; that the advices from the government, or even if the ex- from India on this subject present a tireclusive charter were not renewed. The some narrative of circumstances, which company might still be the medium of the prevent their progress, and a profit on the remittance. They would buy their cargoes sales. Too often they even state a total with the money furnished them by go- failure in the demand, &c. So far from vernment on the spot, and out of the pro- the presidencies being able to augment duce of those cargoes the claims of all these sales, they complain generally of an parties in England might be satisfied. evident decrease with respect to woollens With or without the management of the of every denomination. Large quantities territory, with or without the monopoly, have remained for years in the company's the India company might still be the warehouses unsold." The government of channel and the instrument of this service Bombay repeatedly tell the directors, that to the public. The same answer applies they can find no purchasers, and express to the intended increase of the dividend, much uneasiness at seeing such a quantity recommended in favour of the proprietors, of cloth and long ells perishing in the who, he says, have hitherto received but warehouses year after year, after striving a very moderate profit, compared with ineffectually to procure a sale, &c. But the great capital engaged by them in this supposing the contrary were true, and that trade, and the risks to which they have the export trade to India were in its nature been exposed. His words, I think, were, capable of being improved and extended, that " out of a revenue of 3,700,0001. what reason is there to presume that this which they brought into England, they object might not be as effectually obtained had for their own use no more than 400,0001. by an open trade, as by an exclusive a year, a sum hardly equal to the legal in-company? I fear you will find that, as terest of their capital, considering the long as the manufactures of India are many risks which they ran.” Here at last worth bringing to Europe, you must pay for them in specie. The possession of the the public. If so, the committee perhaps territorial revenues has made it unneces- may be curious to know, for what reason sary to send silver to Bengal; and that I he now insists so vehemently on the netake to be one of the principal advantages cessity of renewing the charter. Was he we have derived from it. But, on the in earnest in that declaration, or did he other hand, the export of bullion to China only make use of it as an artificial menace has considerably increased.

open.

In seven

to drive the directors to his purpose ? years,

from 1785 to 1791 inclusive, I find I have given you my opinion of as many it stated by the committee of directors to of the particulars of the hon. gentleman's have amounted to 4,352,0211., or above propositions, as I have been able to re621,7171. a year. It is true the directors collect. If the plan of continuing the tell us that the export of silver to China government of so great a territory in the is likely to decrease hereafter. It may hands of a trading company were real and be so.

At present we have facts on one effective, if it seriously meant what it side, and estimates on the other. In an- professed, I should think it liable to the other part of the same report, “ the com- most serious and solid objections. But, mittee do not “ scruple to affirm, that the when I know that directly the reverse is most lucrative and beneficial mode of the fact, when I see the name of the comcarrying on the trade with China from pany held up as a mask and a stalking Europe is by the export of bullion; yet horse to shelter the operations of a real the company have anxiously seized every power which skulks behind it, that this opportunity of introducing British manu- power engrosses every thing, while it factures and produce into China, not- pretends to take nothing, I should be withstanding they could have derived su- afraid of using unparliamentary language, perioradvantages from a different conduct.” if I permitted myself to say what I think The patriotism of the present directors is of the whole measure. I mean therefore sufficient to assure us, that they will be at to express myself with caution, with all times ready to sacrifice the interest reserve and moderation, when I say, that of the India company to that of the pub- it is a dangerous composition of bad prinlic. But whatif unfortunately they should ciples with worse practice, of absurd be succeeded by persons of a more con theories carried into execution in the fined way of thinking, who may possibly most suspicious form of fallacy and defeel themselves bound to prefer the par- lusion from beginning to end.

As an ticular advantage of their constituents to operation pretending to genius or conthe commercial interests of the nation at trivance, what is it but a poor, flat, pitiful large? Now, Sir, I beg leave to ask the conclusion from premises that announced hon. gentleman, in my turn, whether, if aud demanded some grand measure, some every thing he urges in favour of renewing capital arrangement, the result of deep the charter were granted, is he sure that inquiry and penetration, conducted with it is in his power, or in that of the legislature, industry and enlightened by experience, to make the trade to India really and de and fit to be proposed by a statesman, to facto exclusive in the hands of the com- the legislature of a great kingdom, for the

Can he exclude Ireland from better government of another? I cannot partaking in it? and would he, if he could, believe it possible that this can be the plan 'while he knows that the Bengal river is which the right hon gentleman has had annually crowded with ships from America, hitherto in view. If it be, I am sure that as well as from different parts of Europe, all his ostensible labours and inquiries navigating, under foreign colours, but about Indian affairs have been completely really freighted by British subjects and thrown away. loaded at Calcutta with cargoes bought General Šmith thought the right hon. with their money, and to be afterwards secretary would have been wanting to smuggled into the British dominions? himself, to the company, and to the counAbout three weeks ago, the hon. gentle-try, if he had brought forward propositions man told thecourt of directors, cavalierly of any other nature than those which he enough, but not without reason, that had done. He was decidedly against an “ he was not anxious about what their de- open trade. So far from the company's cision might be; being of opinion, that affairs having been better before they had the grant of an exclusive commerce to territorial possessions, lord Clive's suc. India was not very material to the interests cesses in 1757 were the salvation of the either of the East India company or of company; for had not those successes

pany?

happened, they would have been bank- the only principle they themselves were rupt. The possessions of the company fond of professing, namely, to keep faith were in a higher state of cultivation than with our allies, to check the aggrandizethose of any nabob in the country.

ment of France, and to preserve the safety The resolution was agreed to. After of this country. If in entering upon this which, the chairman reported progress, subject any gentleman expected that he and asked leave to sit again.

should be brought to pledge himself in the

least degree with respect to the principles Debate on Mr. Sheridan's Motion re- or the politics of lord Auckland, or that he specting Lord Auckland's Memorial to the should be influenced by any considerations States General.] April 25. Mr. Sheridan with regard to that nobleman, such gensaid, that the motion which he should tleman would certainly be disappointed; have the honour of submitting to the for he must frankly declare, that persoHouse, was one that not only involved nally against him, or any other person in the character of the right hon. the chan- administration, he had no ill will, but at cellor of the exchequer and the whole of the same time he had no hesitation in sayhis majesty's ministers, but also the cha- ing, that he did not respect or esteem the racter of the British nation. It had in man; he would say no more upon that view the calling for an explanation of the subject, because he was not present; in real intent, nature, purpose, and object of all

, therefore , that he should say of him, the war in which we were engaged. In he begged to be understood as speaking the course of the discussions which had of his majesty's minister at the Hague. taken place on the present war, on one in this view, he must say, that he disapsubject there had been a concurrence of proved of every memorial that noble lord opinion, whatever difference subsisted had set his name to, from the first dison others, that the increasing power and turbances in France, down to the signing ambitious views of France should be re- that of the 5th of the present month, upon sisted and our allies protected. On the which the motion he should conclude with subject of the war, three different opinions would be founded. All he was concerned had prevailed; the first thought it a war in was marked by a sort of officious osof necessity, but limited as to its objects. tentation, which ill became the character The second, in which he classed, thought he ought to represent. Instead of the that no administration should permit the moderate language of a minister, desirous independence of this country to be in to show that he was only an ambassador, danger from the exorbitant power of he appeared always in the style of a viceFrance, or the rights of our allies to be roy, whose business it was to dictate and invaded ; yet, thinking the security of this command. The paper with which he country, and indemnification to Holland announced the war with France was of might have been obtained by negociation, this haughty, arrogant style, in which he they thought the war, at the period it called the national assembly of France occurred, not necessary. A third class miscreants. Such language was not only viewed the power of France as much less improper, but, under the circumstances pernicious than the principles she had of the case, inexcusable; it was not the adopted, and abhorring the conduct of effect of an overpowering warmth, which those in authority there, thought venge- frequently accompanied the animation of ance and extermination to those men and debate: they were the cool, collected those principles were objects which this words of an ambassador, who ought to country was bound in interest and in duty have reflected that he represented the to pursue. He, and those with whom he king and the people of England, both of had the pleasure to agree, had endea- whom, he was sure, would be ashamed of voured to draw from those gentlemen such expressions. Such expressions could something like a definition of the extent answer no good purpose; neither our solto which their principles would lead them ; diers nor our sailors would enlist the but nothing like an explanation had been sooner, or fight the better for it; and the given upon that point. This day, how people of this country ought not to be ever, he was determined to put that sub- supposed to agree to use harsh words ject to the test, and he should maintain against those who had the direction of that ministers had abandoned the prin- the public force of a nation, still less that ciples of the war, upon which alone they they could instruct their ambassador to had the concurrence of the country, and be a blusterer : such conduct would be

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