Financial Situation of the Country. bills, 3,000,000l. would go to the reduction of the unfunded debt in the market. Mr. Calcraft did not wish to protract the debate, but he wished to make one observation with respect to the dúty on tobacco. He thought the reduction of duty from 4s. to 3s. was not sufficient to prevent the smuggler from competing with the fair trader. It would, in his opinion, be advisable to reduce it to 2s. in order to prevent smuggling altogether. He could not sit down without congratulating the country upon the favourable statement they had just heard. Such a statement, after what had recently taken place, was most cheering. Captain Gordon expressed his surprise that the chancellor of the Exchequer should have attacked the Scotch people for having objected to the removal of the Scottish revenue board to London, when, in point of fact, the great body of the people of Scotland were in favour of that measure. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he had not blamed the Scottish people; on the contrary, he had eulogized them; and had only expressed his surprise that any man could be found in that country to oppose or find fault with the measure. Sir C. Forbes could not help expressing his surprise at the attempt about to be made to alter the currency of Scotland. He hoped that those members who were more immediately interested in the welfare of that country would make a stand, and resist the plan proposed by ministers for altering the Scottish banking system. He was decidedly of opinion that any alteration would be injurious; and so long as he could get one member to support him, he should oppose it; and he hoped ultimately the measure would be abandoned. He hoped the members from Scotland would imitate the gentlemen of the sister kingdom, and stick together upon this occasion. Mr. Ellice said, he could not help noticing what had fallen from the hon. baronet. The House had passed a bill which was to regulate the currency of England, and, he would ask, what right had Scotland to be exempted from a similar regulation? He was unable to comprehend why a measure highly expedient for England should not apply with equal advantage to Scotland. The hon. member for Midhurst had exclaimed against the country bankers of England; but he wished the House to notice the difference between their conduct and that of the Scotch bankers. The former, so far from asking for delay, might be said to have almost gone beyond the House. But the Scotch banks had come forward almost with a petition to that effect. Notwithstanding what had been said by the hon. baronet, he should be prepared to show, that the Banking system of Scotland had been, in a great degree, the cause of the over-trading and speculation which had been productive of so much evil. It was, therefore, too much for them to be told, that the people of that country would resist a measure which was agreed to by almost the unanimous vote of the House, and which was understood should apply to the whole kingdom. While on his legs, he wished to ask the chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he meant to make any reduction in the duty on soap, and on drugs used in the manufacture of silk? Mr. Bright asked, what was to be done with the surplus of 120,000l.? There was one tax, which, although unproductive, pressed heavily on persons ill able to bear it; he meant the tax on receipt stamps, which he thought it would be extremely desirable to abolish. Mr. Huskisson said, that when on a former night his right hon. friend had spoken of the duty on soap, he had intimated that the arrangement relative to it was this-that all who used it in the silk manufacture, should enjoy the same advantages as those engaged in the woollen manufacture; namely, that of a drawback of the duty. On the subject of dye-drugs, it could scarcely be forgotten that there had been imposed upon them no more than a nominal duty. The surplus of 120,000l., which had been adverted to, was, it must be confessed, rather small, considering the large amount upon which it was calculated; and, so far from going to seek for a mode by which to appropriate it, the matter of regret was, that the surplus should be so trifling on so large a calculation. The hon. member for Aberdeen had noticed the necessity for funding seven or eight millions of Exchequer-bills. Now, even that operation, supposing there were no other, would go nigh to consume the whole of that sum. The hon. member for Abingdon had endeavoured to confuse one of the most luminous statements that had ever been delivered within the walls of that House. That hon. gentleman had proceeded upon an entire misconception of the facts; for he had asserted nothing less than that the public debt, in amount of capital, interest, and charge, had increased since the year 1819. It had been said, that by figures almost any thing could be proved; and certainly a practical illustration of this maxim had been given by the hon. member for Aber deen. His fallacy consisted in his asserting that the debt of the country during the past year had increased 70,000,000/. and upwards, with an increase upon that of 2,000,000l. in the form of charge. This was for the dead-weight. The payment of an annuity of 2,800,000l. during the next 45 years, was taken by him as an addition to the public debt made in 1825, and as belonging exclusively to that year. Upon such grounds as these it was that the hon. gentleman cried out to the government to put an end to the dead-weight. There was another argument of that hon. gentleman to which he would advert. It amounted to this: that ministers, though they reduced taxation between twenty and thirty millions, still left the burthens of the people undiminished. There was a reduction; that was admitted; but because the taxes, when reduced, were in the remaining department more productive than before the reduction, it was inferred that no relief was afforded; which amounted to saying that the people of England were as much inconvenienced by the present amount of taxation as if no reduction had ever been made; that, in fact, taxation pressed now as heavily as it did in the year 1816; that the increased consumption, in which the late repeals of taxes had enabled the people to indulge, yielding larger revenues than heretofore, was to be taken rather as a continuance of burthens, than as a relief from pressure. Now, when the whole of the duty was taken off salt, half the duty off wine, large reductions on spirits, and various other articles, the hon. member for Aberdeen jumped up, and wished the country to believe that the repeal of seven-and-twenty millions of taxes yielded a benefit equal to the repeal of only 4,000,000l. The resolution was then agreed to. HOUSE OF LORDS. Tuesday, March 14, ABOLITION OF SLAVERY.] Earl Grosvenor said, he held in his hand a peti tion from the city of Chester, which he had been, in concert with the right rev. prelate opposite, requested to present to their lordships. The petitioners stated, that they regarded the existence of slavery as contrary to every principle of humanity and justice, and in this senti ment he heartily concurred. The noble earl complained that, from the papers on the table, it appeared that obstacles were interposed in the way of slaves obtaining their manumission. If the colonial assem blies persisted in refusing to attend to the recommendations of government for ameliorating the condition of the slaves, be trusted that fiscal regulations and other measures would be adopted. The Bishop of Chester said, that having been requested to present this petition with his noble friend, he had great pleasure in doing so. He concurred in the sympathy expressed for the sufferings of the negro population of the West Indies, but he was content to leave the details of the measures for their relief in the hands of his majesty's ministers, being satisfied that, with regard to this subject, they were actuated by the same feelings of justice and humanity as the public, and were likely to proceed with more discretion and policy. Lord Ellenborough said, he had a petition to present on a point connected with the West-India slavery, which had not been touched upon in the late debates on that subject; namely, the situation of free men of colour. It appeared, that according to the laws of Barbadoes and other islands, the evidence of free persons of colour could not be received against whites. In case of their incarceration on any charge, they could not be allowed to go at large, unless they obtained what was called white bail. They could not serve as constables or jurymen, and were not allowed to vote on the election of white men to offices. It was evidently absurd to talk of giving liberty to the blacks in the West Indies, if those men of colour who were already emancipated, were not allowed to enjoy the rights of free men. The petitioner was very modest in his demand. He only prayed that their lordships would institute an inquiry into the propriety of considering how far free men of colour ought to obtain relief. From this prayer their lordships would perceive that he was not a person who was inclined to dash at once to a conclusion. He was, however, Earl Bathurst observed, that there was some difficulty connected with this subject. It formed a separate question from the general one relating to slavery; but it had not been overlooked, and was under the consideration of government. This dead-weight person well acquainted with the situation | saved, but the consumer of corn was saof the people of colour in our West-India crificed. It appeared that at this time a islands. Their lordships would readily close alliance had been formed between perceive how vain must be the hope to the government, the landowners, and the raise the blacks in the scale of society, clergy. The object of the government when the people of colour already made was high taxes; the object of the landfree were still treated as slaves. He owners high rents; and the object of the therefore wished to ask the noble lord clergy high tithes. Now he believed, opposite what had been done on this sub- that with regard to rents and tithes, the ject? Was it the intention of the govern- landlords and the clergy were as obdurate ment to send out any instructions to the as ever; but he was persuaded that the law officers of the Crown, or other author- government would break the compact, if ities in the colonies, to submit to the le- they could. They would willingly abangislative assemblies, bills for assimilating don this mode of taxing for one which the situation of free men of colour, as to would work more easily and with better their rights, to that of the whites? effect. But it was said, how is it possible to obtain high taxes without high prices? To this he would answer, that high taxes could be paid with much greater ease, if the high prices were got rid of; for the Corn laws formed a grievous addition to the other burthens of the country, and if the public had not to pay so dear for corn, the weight of the other taxes would be more easily borne. thrown on the first necessary of life, reminded him of an awkward method which had been resorted to in its production. A practice, it was said, once prevailed in Ireland of fastening the plough to the horse's tail, and in that way making him drag it along. Perhaps the noble earl opposite (lord Limerick) would stand up in defence of that ancient and venerable practice; but he would advise the noble earl to consider the difference between a field ploughed by the miserable Irish horse of antiquity with the plough at his tail, and another ploughed by a well-harnessed and a wellfed horse, who could put his shoulder to the work. If he looked well to this point, he would find, that the horse yoked as horses were elsewhere ploughed, with great ease, six inches deep, while the jaded animal, with the plough at its tail, could barely scratch the ground. Now, it was precisely the same thing with the Corn laws. Like the plough at the horse's tail they were a dead-weight on the public, and damped the energies of the country. If their lordships were really desirous that it should be enabled to support a great amount of taxation, they would lose no time in repealing those laws. CORN LAWS.] Lord King said, he rose to present a petition against that real dead-weight, or job of jobs, the Corn laws. On this subject he had already had the misfortune to provoke two of his noble friends. One of them had told him, that it was very improper to take the House by surprise with arguments which noble lords were not prepared to answer. On the present occasion, therefore, he should avoid any of those abstruse principles of political economy which had been so much complained of, but would confine himself to history and plain matter of fact. Turning, then, to history, he must remind their lordships of the period when the Corn laws were passed. That event took place in those dark ages of legislation, in those times of ignorance, when it was gravely declared that a one-pound note was equal in value to a sovereign. Then it was, when our political sun was in obscuration, that a law was passed to make corn and bread dear. Tradition said, that after a very expensive war, the landlords objected to pay their share of the expense. They liked the war very well, but they did not like to be called upon when the bill came to be settled. They then took counsel how to avoid paying their part of the bill. Two ways occurred to them of accomplishing that object. The first was by defrauding the public creditor; the second by taxing the consumers of corn. Now it happened, that to the first course the government ob'jected; the public creditor was therefore VOL. XIV. The Earl of Limerick declared, that when the noble lord began to address their lordships, he had no intention of replying to any thing which might be said on the subject of this petition. He was, how4 R ever, glad to find that the noble lord had somewhat varied his note on the present occasion, and that the "job of jobs" was no longer the sole name of the Corn laws, but that they were now called the "deadweight." He congratulated the noble lord on this invention, and had no doubt that, during the session, some more new names would be discovered by him. The noble lord had declared, that he would not wander into the mazes of metaphysics, but would draw their lordships' attention to facts. Now, what sort of facts had the noble lord mentioned? What he had stated, was one of the greatest misrepresentations ever made in that House. He had gone back some 500 or 600 years, to look into an old musty act of parliament about a horse dragging a plough by the tail. He applauded the noble lord's deep research, but did not think it would have much weight with their lordships. PROMISSORY NOTES BILL.] The Earl of Liverpool, in moving the order of the day for the second reading of this bill, observed, that it was not his intention to enter into any statements upon this occasion; because, when he brought forward the measure relating to the Bank charter, he had put their lordships in possession of the whole system which his majesty's government thought advisable to adopt with respect to this subject. Should any doubt arise with respect to the provisions of this bill, or any objection be urged against it, he should be ready to state in explanation whatever might occur to his mind. The operation of this bill was intended to be confined to England; its object was, to extinguish the circulation of notes under 51. He had been asked if it was intended to extend the operation of this measure to Ireland and Scotland? He had then stated, that it was the opinion of government, that the principle ought to be extended to Ireland and Scotland; allowing, however, a larger interval, with respect to time, when it was to come into operation in those parts of the empire. He now begged leave to apprise their lordships that it was his intention to move on Friday for the appointment of a committee to inquire into the present banking systems of Ireland and Scotland. He adopted this course of proceeding, not from any alteration which had taken place in his own opinion upon this subject, but from a thorough conviction that the investigation would prove the expediency of the application of the proposed measure to those countries. The Earl of Carnarvon objected to the whole of this measure; first, on account of the time at which it was introduced; next, on account of the circumstances under which it was brought forward; and thirdly, on the abstract principle, that a paper-currency founded on a metallic one was the best and the safest for the interest of this country. He also objected to it because it was intended to prevent the recurrence of such crises as that which the country had lately suffered and continued to endure, convinced as he was that it would be found wholly inopërative for that purpose. It was therefore his determination to give it a decided negative. If the measure professed to afford relief to the present distress, he should, perhaps, have hesitated before he offered any opposition to it; but when it was admitted, that it would bring no relief at present, and was hastily brought forward without inquiry, not for the purpose of meeting the existing evil, but to prevent a recurrence of it, the case was widely different. He was not for adopting measures to-day, which it might be found expedient to abandon to-morrow; and if any question brought forward under such circumstances were more calculated to produce mischief than another, it was a question affecting the currency of the country. The effect of the bill was counteracted by the principle of another measure with which it had been coupled, respecting the Bank of England. To that measure he did not object; but he felt that it strengthened his objection to the adoption of this bill at present, when the agitation which it excited in the public mind had produced the introduction of another measure before this had gone through the House. It produced the greatest effects upon the money-market at this moment. He knew, however, that that argument would be met by the observation, that the measure ought therefore to be set at rest at once. Now, he should rather say, in the present state of the money-market, let them wave all future considerations now, and apply their minds to the application of a remedy to the existing distress. But no; a different line of conduct was adopted by his majesty's government. They said they had foreseen the evils which had arrived, and therefore would apply no remedy to them. Others might do so if they pleased, and welcome, but they would only adopt measures for the future. Now, he thought that the members of the executive government might have done more service to the country, if they had afforded the public relief more promptly; whether they did it themselves, or induced the Bank to do it. With respect to the object of this bill, he contended, that if the thing was to be done at all, it had better be done at once; otherwise, the effect would be similar to that of the memorable adjustment, as it was called, of 1819, when they came to the resolution of paying a paper debt, according to the old standard; which, instead of being an act of justice, was one of the grossest injustice; and one, towards the country at large, of the greatest impolicy. The committee, in whose suggestions that measure originated, had laid it down, that we ought to return to a metallic currency; and now, upon the occasion of the first panic, without waiting an hour, we must forthwith have recourse to this, the most important measure that could be applied to the country. He contended, that in a commercial country like this, a metallic was not preferable to a paper currency convertible into gold. The noble earl opposite had calculated, that not more than from 6,000,000l. to 8,000,000l. of gold would be necessary to replace the paper which he proposed to withdraw from circulation. Now, that calculation only applied, he believed, to England; how much, therefore, would be required for Ireland and Scotland, he could not say, but he did not think that less than ten or twelve millions would be required altogether. Whatever would be its amount, it would be considerable. Now, these seven, eight, ten, or twelve millions must be withdrawn from the productive capital of the country; and if the compound interest of that sum for the next 40 or 50 years were calculated, it would be seen what a considerable diminution would be thus produced, in what would otherwise have then been the amount of the national capital. That paper was a cheaper currency than gold, the noble earl would not contradict. Then came the question, was it as safe a one? For an answer to that question, he referred the noble earl to Scotland. It was impossible to look to the state of that country, which for forty years had no other currency than paper, without being convinced of the safety of such a circulation, when founded upon a proper system of banking. The present system of banks in Scotland had existed for upwards of a century. During that period, Scotland had made the greatest progress in the acquirement of wealth. What was the difference between the currencies of Scotland and England? Was it only that they had no metallic currency there? No; but they had chartered banks, while the banks of England were formed upon a very different system. No man would defend the circulation of the one and two pound notes which issued from such banks as these. He thought that ministers ought, before they adopted a measure like the present, to have recommended the Bank of England to sacrifice a portion of their privileges, and permit the formation of chartered banks within a certain distance of the metropolis. The noble earl contended, that the distress had been produced by excessive trading and speculation, originating in causes wholly unconnected with the paper currency. At the time of the South Sea bubble, we had no small paper currency. In 1783, we had no currency of 11. and 21. notes; and the pressure was at that period greater than the present. In 1793 the case was the same; although it was the fashion to attribute the state of the country at that time to the war. Thus it was clear that there were no grounds for imputing the present distress to the state of the existing currency. The noble earl had intimated his intention of imparting to Scotland the blessings of his proposed system; but the noble earl ought first to consider, whether it would not be better to place the currency in this country upon the same footing as that of Scotland, under which she had been exempt from all the evils which England had endured. He ought to consider whether, by tracing cause and effect he might not discover that it was that system which had so exempted Scotland from those evils, and find it a wiser measure to assimilate our own system to hers, instead of forcing upon her the application of our theory of 1819, or any theory at all. There were no grounds for presuming that a paper currency so established would not produce the same bene. ficial consequences here as in Scotland; and it would, therefore, be much wiser to adopt that than have recourse to another which, the moment it was introduced, had produced a degree of distress |