all that he had seen, this was the usual character of their proceedings. As to the necessity of a naval force in India, he had been for many years on that station, and it had astonished him that we could hold so vast a dominion with a naval force so small as was kept there. The House would recollect the limits taken in by that station. It was a full quarter of the earth's surface, reaching, in direct longitude, from the coast of Arabia to the Pacific Ocean. True it was, that there were no powerful fleets in those seas; but, there were many forts upon the mouths of rivers which gave occasion for the employment of vessels of war and boats. But, there were reasons for keeping up a considerable force in other quarters. The Mediterranean station evidently required a considerable force to protect our commerce; especially while a piratical war was raging between the Greeks and Turks. He thought the service could not be properly maintained with a less number of men. Mr. Wyvill would vote for the amendment, in order to compel ministers to observe the strictest economy. Mr. Herries said, that the object of the amendment was not so much to negative the vote for the navy, as to put a stop to the grant of supplies generally; which, of course, the House had the power to do, though it was a power rarely exercised, and not without the statement of more cogent reasons than those urged by the hon. member for Aberdeen. So far from its being true that ministers had no regard for economy, they had evinced, from year to year, the utmost anxiety to promote it; and the time chosen by the hon. gentleman for bringing forward his amendment was not a little extraordinary, recollecting that it was upon bringing up the report of the committee whose reso lutions had been agreed to unanimously. With regard to the absence of ministers, he denied that it was necessary that they should attend to listen to the often repeated recommendations of the hon. member. They had observed the most rigid economy in every department, and had carried reductions to the utmost extent. Year after year, and item by item, the navy estimates had been scrutinized with the utmost patience, and the increase of the present vote above that of 1817 had been frequently justified; so that nothing could be more absurd than to treat it as if the augmentation were en tirely new, and required arguments in support of it. Colonel Davies thought, that this was a fit opportunity for the exercise of that great economical check which lay in parliament. No good reason had been given for keeping up so enormous an establishment. Were they, in a time of peace and in a season of universal distress to go on voting away large and unnecessary quantities of the public money? Ought they not rather, as guardians of the public purse, when that distress was likely to be aggravated by the measure now in progress, to restore the currency, to force upon government the most rigid economy? He would vote for the amendment, and when the report of the army estimates should come up, he would oppose the reception of it, unless it was accompanied with some pledge of serious reduction on the part of ministers. Captain Gordon adverted to the charge, that branches of families of rank and influence were placed in the navy, in order that they might receive pensions out of the pocket of the public. How stood the fact? Any person entering the army must serve six years before he would be entitled to half-pay at all. He knew of several officers of acknowledged gallantry and merit, who, after serving thirty years or more, received a pension of about 180l. Surely these allowances were not burthensome pensions, but limited rewards for services performed to the country. Mr. Tremayne conceived that the strictest economy was necessary in all the departments of the state, and therefore he should vote for the amendment. Mr. Hobhouse begged it to be understood that he did not object to the navy estimates generally; but he could not, in the present condition of the country, approve of money being voted without the strictest necessity for it. In thus expressing himself, he trusted he should not be charged with a wish to embarrass ministers. The measures which they had brought forward this session, with the exception of the one last night, had met with his approbation; but, on that occasion, certainly, he thought it to be his duty to vote against them, inasmuch as he conceived they had departed from their own principles. With respect to the necessity of a reduction in the expenditure, he was satisfied, that throughout the country there was but one opinion, that such establishments could not be kept up up, especially if ministers persevered in that measure, which he must deem an eminently wise one, of returning to a metallic currency. It was every man's settled conviction, that with the contraction of the circulating medium which that measure would occasion, it would not be possible to keep up those establishments; unless, indeed, ministers had made their minds to the desperate alternative of breaking faith with the public creditor. The speech from the throne assured the House, that no rupture of the peace of Europe was expected; and the tranquillity of Ireland rendered any additional force in that quarter unnecessary; therefore it would be absurd for ministers to come to parliament this year and demand the same amount of supplies for the army year after year. He imputed no blame to the lords of the Admiralty. He made no charge of partiality or undue influence personally against them. He objected to the system to the representative system -to maintain which, ministers found it necessary to court the support of the great, by providing for their dependants. One gallant officer, to disprove the charge of improper influence, had told the House of his taking two deserving youths by the hand down to the Admiralty, and introducing them there with success. Why, this was the very case of his hon. friend, the member for Aberdeen. Their merits might have claimed and acquired for them promotion without the recommendation of the gallant officer. But, then, what was the effect of his introduction? Surely he ought to recollect how the public would view this transaction. They would not forget that the gallant officer was a member of parliament, and that by some accident or other, he always found himself at liberty. In short, it was clear, that his recommendation was strong, because he was a member of parliament. He knew a captain in the navy, who had frequently declared that it was ridiculous to suppose that any claim made by individuals would be listened to, unless there was parliamentary interest to support them. There were exceptions, he knew, to this; for many gallant officers had risen to the head of the profession without such aid. However, it was a fact well known, that the current of favour generally set the way of parliamentary interest. This was the general impression, not only in the naval service, but among the people at large. The House divided; for the Amendment 15, Against it 43. On the resolution, that 896,000l. be granted for defraying the expense of the half-pay of the unemployed officers of his majesty's fleet, Sir C. Cole expressed his regret at the hardships which half-pay officers of the navy underwent, in consequence of their being obliged to employ themselves in other professions, owing to the inadequate provision afforded to them by government. Many of those officers had adopted other professions; some had gone into holy orders; and he could not but consider it as a great hardship that their half-pay, which they had so well earned in the service of their country, should in consequence be taken from them. Mr. Hume being the first person who had introduced the subject of officers going into the church, could not help offering a few words. He was anxious to learn what steps government would take with respect to officers entering the church. They did not seem to know how to act on the subject; for an order in council had passed taking off the halfpay of officers in holy orders, and a subsequent order had restored it to them again. He could not but consider it a hardship that in this latter order, an exception had been made with respect to marine officers. It was certainly not fair to give half-pay to one class of officers, and to take it from another. On what principle of justice or policy were officers who had served in the marines to be exempted from the benefits enjoyed by others? From all he could learn, there were but four retired marine officers who were in a situation to claim it. Sir G. Cockburn said, that the system which had always been adopted by the Admiralty was this-that no person in the naval department should be allowed to enjoy half-pay, unless he consented to join the navy again, should his services be required. It was impossible always to act upon this system, government had been attempted to be imposed upon in more than one instance. A person who came in turn to be employed, had written to the Admiralty, requesting to be allowed to go upon the reserve half-pay list; but it being discovered that he was in holy orders, his request was at once dismissed. Another person had been struck off the half-pay list, when it was found that he had taken holy orders. Not very long since, it had been the practice in the army to suffer half-pay officers who had gone into the church to retain their half-pay; but when the principle came to be considered, the army saw the necessity of the measure adopted by the Admiralty, and it was now an established rule, that every person so situated should forthwith dispose of his commission. to. The several resolutions were then agreed HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, February 22. portunity of making these statements in the presence of the right hon. the president of the Board of Trade, but even in his absence he felt himself bound to make them. Sir Robert H. Inglis said, he rose, not to follow the hon. member for Grampound in his observations on the commercial points of the Colombian treaty, which alone, as he was willing to admit, were formally and technically before the House, and as little to object to that treaty generally, but to take this opportunity of calling to the attention of the House one article in it which to him appeared to involve interests far higher than those of any commerce, and to commit the character of the country and the cause of religion. The article to which he referred was the 12th, which stipulates that the Colombians resident in England, shall be entitled to exercise their worship in public and in private with most full and ample toleration; while it stipulates that the English, resident in Colombia, shall be permitted to exercise their religion in Mr. Robertson begged the attention of their own houses only. In reference to the House to the conduct of his majesty's the first point, he, as an Englishman, felt government, with respect to the commer- almost degraded, that at this day toleracial interests of the empire. They had tion should be granted to a Colombian sacrificed already too much to a dan- arriving here, as if it were a new boon; gerous delusion, namely, that of violating as if it were in the power of the negothe navigation laws which hitherto pro- ciators to give it, or to withhold it; as if tected our carrying trade all over the it were not almost a chemical ingredient world, in order to found on it the new in the air of England. But what is the system of free trade. These regulations reciprocal advantage obtained by Engof commerce had not only been extended land? The reciprocity, as was said in to the butter trade, but to the ports of an the American war, is all on one side: the old rival nation in commercial transac- English residents in Colombia are pertions, the Dutch. They, however, view-mitted to worship God in their own ing every thing which affected their in-houses. Every other article in the treaty terests with their ancient jealousy, no gives some benefit to one party, and some sooner perceived that England put a small corresponding benefit to the other, duty on foreign salt, than they repealed the concessions they had made in favour "Grove nods at grove, each alley has its brother." of British commerce. With respect to But here there is a most lame and impothe state of Buenos Ayres, our ministers tent conclusion; the Colombian is to had adopted a principle altogether foreign enjoy, as he ought, the fullest and freest to the constitution of this maritime coun- exercise of his religion here, as free as try, and permitted the import of goods of any other Roman Catholic; the Englishthat country in ships, not only of that, but man is to have the free exercise of his of other states. Similarly objectionable religion in his own house. The truth is, stipulations had been entered into between that the Colombian government has this country and the new states of Colom- mocked us, as the English negociators bia, which must open the trade of this mocked them. Both have granted what country to strangers; as it was notoriously they could not withhold. If it be said, the fact, that the rights of citizenship that there was a law in Colombia preventwould be acquired in Colombia by a ing any assemblage in private houses for week's residence. He would have been religious purposes, and therefore that much better satisfied had he had an op- something was gained as to that point VOL. XIV. 2 Y to prove that something was wanting somewhere to have led to this result. He was sure that it was not owing to any defect in the instructions of the secretary of state for Foreign Affairs, whose large and enlightened policy had been so often and almost so unanimously approved in this House. But this was not all: he had seen yesterday a Bogota newspaper, expressing the feelings which the treaty of England with Buenos Ayres had ex by this treaty, he denied the fact; because, by the constitution of that state, there is no provision made for the exclusion of any one religion. If it be said, that though there is no such law, yet that in practice English merchants have been disturbed in assembling at each other's houses, he denied the fact as to Colombia, and doubted it as to any other part of Spanish America. So much for what has been done: as to what might have been done, he would consider first the circum-cited in Colombia: they regretted, restances of the state of Colombia itself, and then the precedent of Buenos Ayres. There were many circumstances in the state of Colombia peculiarly favourable, as it appeared, to the admission of religious toleration. In the first place, there was the silence of the constitution as to any exclusive religion in the state; in the next, there was the personal character of the great man who founded and who defends that constitution; who, high as he is in talents and services, and disinterested virtue, is not less high in the estimation of Europe and America for his liberal and enlightened support of every good object. He begun his career by the abolition of slavery; and set the example by the emancipation of his own slaves; he has now been encouraging universal education. In the third place, the character of those who administer the government in his absence is equally favourable to liberal views. The House will recollect that this treaty was signed at Bogota on the 18th of last April; one of the plenipotentiaries being Don Pedro Gual, the secretary of state for foreign affairs. On the 4th of that same April, there was established in the same city, a bible society, under the presidency of the same secretary of state. The meeting was very numerously attended; and, though the object was opposed by two very respectable ecclesiastics, their opposition was overcome, and the society was finally established. It is a minor fact, but not unimportant, as showing the state of the public mind and public opinion, that the secretary of the new society had been secretary to the Inquisition, and the place of the meetings of the society is the former hall of the Inquisition. This is at least some proof that the public mind was more prepared for liberality than might have been expected from the results of this treaty. He did not blame the talents, the firmness, the zeal of the plenipotentiaries, it he thought that he had said enough ferring to the toleration secured by that treaty, that another state had ravished from them the glory of taking precedence in religious toleration: they trust, however, that the example of a state with the same religion, language, laws, and prejudices with their own, will be followed by them; an example which proves to the universe that the people of Buenos Ayres, after having gained their freedom, know how to make use of it. This, indeed, is not the language of a state paper, or of an act of Congress; it is merely the language of a newspaper; but a newspaper at Bogota, as at London, must, to be successful, speak the language, and represent the feelings of a great body of people. When, therefore, he considered these favourable indications-the absence from the constitution of Colombia of any exclusion of toleration; the personal character of Bolivar, in favour of all liberality; the personal character of some of those who administer the government in his absence, and the sympathy of people in Colombia with that liberality, so far as that sympathy can be considered as proved by the passage quoted, it is difficult not to see that a prima facie case is established to justify considerable surprise at the result of this treaty. This was more remarkable when the precedent of Buenos Ayres was remembered. There he found in the treaty with that power the most ample toleration established. If, therefore, the same plenipotentiaries who had been successful in Buenos Ayres had been employed in Bogota, the same results might perhaps have been obtained. He was sure that no instruction could have been wanting on the part of the secretary of state for Foreign Affairs. He did not wish him to have interposed in this negotiation with any threat, still less with the reality of war, if the object were not obtained. But enough had been bere said to show how the balance in Colombia was wavering, and though he would not have wished the right hon. gentleman to have thrown his sword into it, he should have thought that the scale might have been turned by his pen. The time at which this failure took place adds to the regret which it occasions. It was just at the time when the Pope, whose influence in the TransAtlantic states had been declining, was endeavouring by his letters to recover that influence there. Those more especially who have contended that the church of Rome has changed, ought to look with more than ordinary regret at this refusal on the part of Colombia to grant toleration-a concession which might appear from so many circumstances to have been attainable. If the consideration of this question were to close here, he would have been content to read the treaty in silent mortification; but it was not merely the duty of the House to consider what had been done, and what might have been done, but also what remained to be done. There were still four states to be recognised-Chili, Peru, Guatimala, and Hayti, besides Mexico and the Brazils, the treaties with which, though in progress, were not ratified. In all these cases, he trusted that the right hon. gentleman would secure for the British subjects the benefits of that toleration which had been lost in Colombia. Sir R. H. Inglis begged his right hon. friend to recollect, that he had always made a distinction between granting religious toleration and granting political power. Mr. Irving, as a member of the Committee of Foreign Trade, felt himself called on to assure the House, that no-thing had been neglected on the part of the committee to secure a just reciprocity of advantages to England in the treaty before the House; nor could he believe that the same object had, for a moment, escaped the observation of that part of his majesty's ministers to whose province these commercial arrangements in strictness belonged. The bill was then read a second time. HOUSE OF LORDS. CORN LAWS.] Lord Suffield presented a petition from Ashton-underLyne, praying for the repeal or amend ment of the Corn-Laws. He said, he could not lay the petition on the table, without expressing his regret, that the difficulties of this measure had not been grappled with during the present session. He agreed with the noble earl, not then in his place, that the discussion of this question was likely to be gone into with The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, a considerable degree of passion. He he was sorry his right hon. friend, by whose was as likely as any one of their lordships advice the treaty was concluded, was not to lose, in proportion to his wealth, by a present, as he had no doubt that full fall in the price of corn, for he derived information would have been afforded the greater part of his revenue from land; by him why this point had not been but he was prepared to make any sacrifice gained in Colombia as in Buenos Ayres. that might be for the good of the nation Although the government at Bogota at large. Whatever measure the minismight have been even disposed to ters might bring forward, which were for make a more liberal concession as to the public good, he would not oppose them. toleration, still it might not follow that Perhaps he was wrong in saying a “sacrithe populace might not have been still fice," for he laid claim to no peculiar paaverse to so violent an extension of re-triotism; but he was convinced, that no ligious privileges. It was a matter of congratulation to all who had known any thing of the state of affairs antecedently in those countries to find that even so much had been gained. He could not sit down without remarking, that it was rather singular his hon. friend who spoke last should not, in his anxiety for introducing a more liberal spirit of complete toleration into Catholic states, have turned his thoughts nearer home, and suggested rather than retarded its adoption in a certain protestant country [hear! and a laugh]. class of society could profit, for any length of time, by any measure which was an injury to the other classes. He thought it was a mistake to suppose that the repeal of the Corn-laws would injure the land-owners. Of one thing he was sure, that the repeal of those laws would prevent fluctuations in price; which was a serious injury to the landed interest as as well as to the other interests of the society. The Earl of Lauderdale expressed his regret, that noble lords, when it was understood that this question was not to |