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Ralph (of Comberton), 5 Hen. V., 41. Thomas (of Claxton, co. Leic.), 15 Ric. II., 24; 5 Hen. V., 39; 2 Edw. IV., 4; 4 Edw. IV., 21; Prob. Æt., 9 Hen. V., 66.

Mary, wife of Sir Thomas Grene and John Nottingham; dower (from Claxton), 9 Hen. V., 1; 9 Hen. VI., 2; 12 Hen. VI., 20.

The following notes may help to cast light on the pedigree which the Inquisitions, and especially the Probationes Etatis, will, I hope, enable KANTIANUS to construct:

1378-9, Inq. of Thomas Mauduyt. Maud, wife of Henry Green, Knt., daughter, is heir, and at. 24 years (Nicholas's 'Calendar of Heirs,' Addit. MS. 19,706, 2 Ric. II., letter M).

1399, Oct. 21, grant of goods of Henry Grene, deceased, to his children, Thomas, John, Henry, Mary, and Philippa (Patent Roll, 1 Hen. IV., Part 1).

1400, Sept. 15, Henry Grene married Maud; both deceased. Their son Ralph is heir of his mother (Close Roll, 1 Hen. IV., Part 2).

1401, Feb. 2, livery of raiment ordered from the wardrobe to Maud Grene, of the suite of damsels of the King's hostel (Patent Roll, 2 Hen. IV., Part 2).

1416, May 6, charter of John Grene, son and heir of Sir Henry, wherein he mentions "Ralph my brother" (Close Roll, 3 Hen. V.).

1419, Feb. 16, Katherine, widow of Ralph Grene (Close Roll, 6 Hen. V.).

1420, June 14, pardon for unlicensed marriage of John Notyngham and Mary, widow of Thomas Grene (Patent Roll, 8 Hen. V.).

1439, March 6, marriage contract of Henry Grene, ar., and Constance, widow of John Paulet, Knight, to marry within three months (Close Roll, 17 Hen. VI.).

1454, June 8, Isabel Grene, daughter of Dame Philippa, deceased, who was daughter of Robert, Lord Ferrers, and wife of Thomas Grene, Knight, father of said Isabel. Thomas, son and heir of said Philippa (Close Roll, 33 Hen. VI.).

1472, June 12, pardon for unlicensed marriage of Richard Midelton, ar., and Maud, widow of Sir Thomas Grene (Patent Roll, 12 Edw. IV., Part 1). 1482, Oct. 8, Sir Thomas Grene made his will, Friday before Nativity of our Lady, anno 2 (Sept. 3, 1462). His widow, Dame Mawde, married Richard Middleton, ar. Thomas Grene, ar., their son and heir (Close Roll, 22-3 Edw. IV.).


Sir Henry Greene (Grene in the Rolls of Parliament), "q feust adjuggez a la mort a Bristuyt," July 29, 23 Ric. II. (so in Rot. Parl., 13 H. IV.), was of Drayton, a younger son of Sir Henry Greene, of Green's Norton, Ch. Just. The eldest branch ended in two coheiresses, married to Lord Vaux and Sir Thomas Parr. The younger, or Drayton branch ended in Sir Henry's great-granddaughter

Constance, who married John Stafford, Earl of Wilte. If KANTIANUS really wants details, I can give him some eight generations of the main line, Sir Henry the younger's children and grandchildren. THOMAS WILLIAMS.

Aston Clinton.

Sir Henry Green, "creature of Richard II.,' was of the family of Green, of Green's Norton, co. Northampton.

Sir Henry Green, Lord of Buckton, married Catherine, the heiress of the Draytons of Drayton, and had issue,—

(1) Sir Thomas Green, Lord of Buckton.

(2) Sir Henry Green, of Drayton, who assumed his mother's arms (Az., a cross eng. gu.). See Halstead, 'Succinct Genealogies of the Noble and Ancient House of Alno,' &c., London, 1685 (Halstead being the pseudonym of Henry, Earl of Peterborough), which gives pedigrees, deeds, &c. The work is rare, but there is a copy in the British Museum. Also see Bridges's History of Northamptonshire.'

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The following is an extract from Camden's Britannia,' vol. ii. p. 180, ed. 1789 :—

"Sir Henry Green, Chief Justice of England temp. Edward III., succeeded the Draytons here [Drayton], and his son Henry for his inviolable allegiance to Richard II. was surprised in Bristol Castle, and beheaded by Henry IV. His heirs female brought it to the Staffords, Earl of Wilts, one of whose heirs female brought it to the Lord Mordant, her first husband, whose

descendant was created Earl of Peterborough."

There is an article in the Herald and Genealogist, vol. vi., having reference to the Greens of Green's Norton, and attempting to prove their Yorkshire origin, but the data given do not seem very trustworthy.

F. W. G.

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ITALIAN IDIOM (8th S. ii. 445, 498; iii. 37, 171, 289).—I do not know which MR. YOUNG will consider the higher authorities for deciding as to the use of voi in addressing royal personages number of persons who are not known to have had any connexion with the Court, and therefore may be presumed to have no special knowledge of its usages, or the correspondent quoted by me, who has off and on acted as equerry in Italy for the last ten years, and who, at my request, took such extreme care to be accurate in this matter that be referred his note, before sending it, to another equerry, who had had even greater experience than himself. If we are talking of two different things there is no need of further discussion; but if it is a question as to the correct mode of addressing in speech royal personages in Italy, I think there can be no higher authorities than those who are always with them and who are thoroughly saturated with Court usages. HOLCOMBE INGLEBY.

INSCRIPTIONS ON POOR-BOXES (8th S. iii. 228). -Perhaps these two instances of ancient poorboxes may be of interest to more than one reader

8th S. III. MAY 27, '93.]


of 'N. & Q.' It would please many, I dare say, March 25 and March 26 of that year, two different
to hear of others, or of one even of an earlier date accounts of the "burglary in the Lord Chancellor's
than this of Butterleigh, in Devon. I pray for a house," when the Great Seal was stolen. A new
little corner for the following. In Butterleigh seal appears to have been made immediately, as a
Church the inscription on the poor-box is, "This general election was pending, and, according to
boxe is Frelie given to receave almes for ye the London Gazette of March 27, "At the Court
Poore." Dated 1629. Butterleigh is near Cul-......the 25th of March, 1784" :-
Jompton. In the church at Cartmel, a village near
Grange, is a poor-box with a hole in the top, and
on its side the legend," Remember the poor, 1662."

Earls Heaton, Dewsbury.

An ancient-looking poor-box stands just inside the south door of Leigh Church, Essex. On the upper part, or lid, the following words are rudely carved:

I pray yov

Holmby House, Forest Gate.


'THE NEW TIMON' (8th S. iii. 328).—In answer

to TANG JE PUVs, I send the lines:

Not mine, not mine (O Muse forbid !) the boon

"A new Great Seal of Great Britain having been
prepared by his Majesty's Chief Engraver of Seals.......
Majesty in Council, and approved, his Majesty was
and the same having been this day presented to his
thereupon graciously pleased to deliver the said new Seal
to the Right Honourable Edward Lord Thurlow, Lord

High Chancellor of Great Britain, and to direct that the
ever which pass the Great Seal."
same shall be made use of for sealing all things whatso-

I cannot find any mention of the recovery of this
66 an anecdote
old seal, but there is
the "Great Seal of England," which was thrown
into the Thames by James II., being brought up
in the net of "a fisherman between Lambeth and
Vauxhall."-P. 298.

There is no record of any subsequent recovery of the Great Seal, which was stolen from Lord Thurlow's house in Great Ormond Street on An Order in Council was March 24, 1784. immediately made for the engraving of a new seal, Out babying Wordsworth, and out glittering Keates [sic] of slightly altered design, and so expeditiously was

Of borrowed notes, the mock-bird's modish tune,

The jingling medley of purloin'd conceits,

Where all the airs of patchwork-pastoral chime

To drowsy ears in Tennysonian rhyme !
Am I enthrall'd but by the sterile rule,
The formal pupil of a frigid school,

If to old laws my Spartan tastes adhere,
If the old vigorous music charms my ear,

Where sense with sound, and ease with weight combine,
In the pure silver of Pope's ringing line;

Or where the pulse of man beats loud and strong

In the frank flow of Dryden's lusty song?
Let school-miss Alfred vent her chaste delight
On "darling little rooms so warm and bright!"
Chaunt "I'm aweary" in infectious strain,
And catch her "blue fly singing i' the pane."
Tho' praised by Critics, tho' adored by Blues,
Tho' Peel with pudding plump the puling muse,
Tho' Theban taste the Saxon's purse controuls,
And pensions Tennyson, while starves a Knowles,
Rather, be thou, my poor Pierian Maid,
Decent at least, in Hayley's weeds array'd,
Than patch with frippery every tinsel line,
And flaunt, admired, the Rag Fair of the Nine !

The New Timon, a Romance of London,' Henry
Colburn, publisher, 1846.

That Tennyson bitterly resented this satire can be seen from the lines he sent to Punch in February, 1846, entitled 'The New Timon, and the Poets,' in which he ridiculed Lytton as a padded fop. The lines are signed Alcibiades. Tennyson had the good sense to cut out the "darling room from later editions of his poems, and not to reprint his reply to Lytton.


16, Elms Road, Clapham Common, S. W.
THE GREAT SEAL (8th S. iii. 267).
London Chronicle for 1784 has, under the

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this done that the king was able to deliver it to the Chancellor on the following day. Lord Campbell, in his 'Lives of the Chancellors,' quotes some satirical lines from the 'Rolliad' in allusion to the note (v. 565) that, for some unknown reason, the loss of the seal; and the same author adds in a Great Seal was again changed some six weeks OSWALD, O.S.B. later.

Fort Augustus, N.B.

The Hon. Mrs. Jadis, writing to her father, Lord Delaval, March 27, 1784, says :

"The town for these few days past has been very much taken up with the Robbery committed at the Chancellor's the other night. I make no doubt but you have seen the whole account in the papers. It needed not to have stopped the issuing of the writs a day for any seal the King chose to give I imagine would be the same thing, but the thieves left the Brass impression with the Chancellor."



Never recovered, whether stolen by the Whigs or by less political burglars. Imagine what Lord Thurlow must have said when the loss was made known to him! It was replaced the next day by a new seal. See Lord Campbell's 'Chancellors,' EDWARD H. MARSHALL, M.A. Hastings. vii. 231.

SCOTTISH COUNTIES (8th S. iii. 229, 331).ASTARTE will find the names of the old divisions The of Scotland in a map (No. 13) of that country in dates | 1285, which is contained in Gardiner's 'School

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Atlas of English History.' This atlas was pub-"poet's friend" leaves no room for doubt as to lished last year as a Companion to the whom Tennyson refers to as "the Pilot." Though 'Student's History of England.' published recently in the Athænum, his explanation deserves the further notice it will receive in 'N. & Q.':


"Like many other Tennysonians, C. is in error in supposing that Tennyson, in the lines,—

I hope to see my Pilot face to face
When I have crost the bar,

Liverpool. "TROUTS" (8th S. iii. 366).—Moule's 'Heraldry of Fish' has an interesting chapter on trout as a bearing; but the author never speaks of this charge with the s added (no matter what number may appear upon the shield), and he is always regarded referred to Arthur Henry Hallam, or to his son Lionel, as most scrupulously exact and laboriously pains-Pilot is alone conclusive as to whether or not he or to any other person...... His use of a capital P. in taking, I believe. J. BAGNALL. alluded to an individual. Why do they suppose that I Water Orton. spelt "Pilot" with a big P?' he would say when told that people were in the habit of reading into the lines a personal reference. This contradiction must be taken not as the expression merely of my own opinion upon the point, but as the statement of a matter of fact quite beyond discussion, and established by the testimony of the present Lord Tennyson, whose letter upon the subject lies before me."-No. 3391, p. 555.

This plural form of trout is of much earlier date than the Diary' of Sir Walter Scott. It occurs, e. g., in Beaumont and Fletcher's 'The Scornful Lady,' Act III.:

Be a baron, and a bold one,

Leave off your tickling of young heirs like trouts,
And let thy chimnies smoke.

Lincoln's Inn.


LAURAS (8th S. iii. 320).-May I supplement an editorial reply? If T. wants to know what Lauras are, he should read 'Hypatia.'


"A FLY ON THE CORPORAL" (8th S. ii. 147, 298).Need we go to any old play for the origin of "Keep your eye on the corporal"? Is it not a direction used in drilling recruits? E. H. M. Hastings.

SHAKSPEARE AND MOLIÈRE (8th S. ii. 42, 190, 294, 332, 389, 469; iii. 9, 70, 169, 318).-Your correspondent at the last reference will have some difficulty in proving that 'The Booke of Troilus and Cressida, Feb. 7, 1602, was written by Shakespeare. The preface prefixed to 'The Famous Historie has been sufficient to satisfy spearean scholars that it was not:

"The natural inference appears to be, that in 1608 Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida' was a new play that got into print-it is hopeless to guess by what channel, illicit or otherwise-before it was acted, and that the title-page was altered in the course of the year, after it had come out upon the stage."-W. W. Lloyd's 'Critical Essay on Troilus and Cressida.'

We have to thank P. X. for pointing out a beautiful prose parallel of Lord Tennyson's exquisite little poem. The ideas were analogous, Russell's marine novel. Viewed in the light of though possibly the Laureate never read Clark sublunary navigation, the idea of taking a pilot on board when the bar was crossed is incongruous. But Tennyson spoke of the voyage spiritual; the bar symbolizes death, and the sea, the great, unknown, chartless and trackless ocean of eternity. The imperative need of the Pilot suggests itself instantly, and is expressed in both poem and prose. W. A. HENDerson.


"CURSE OF SCOTLAND" (8th S. iii. 367, 398).— Looking through the back volumes of 'N. & Q.,' I see that there is no probable or possible explanation of this well-known crux that has not been at Shake-editorial note, however, seems to treat the whole one time or another brought forward. As one Culloden story as mythical, I will venture to add that I believe there is no doubt that Cumberland did write the order for the massacre of the wounded insurgents on a nine of diamonds which he picked up from the floor; and I am told on good authority that the identical card is preserved at Errol. It was here, it will be remembered, that Slains Castle, Aberdeenshire, the seat of Lord Johnson passed a night in August, 1773, and in spite of his "most elegant room," was kept awake by the blaze of the fire, the roar of the sea, and the smell of his pillows "made of the feathers of philosopher the "curiosities" of the place; but he some sea-fowl." Lady Errol showed the old does not tell us if this card was among them. The phrase, however, was certainly in use before 1715. Lord-Justice-Clerk Ormiston was nicknamed the "Curse of Scotland" in 1715.

"The substance of the book issued in these two forms being the same, the natural inference is that when first published, the play, as the preface said, had not been acted; but that after it had first been produced at the Globe in that year 1609, the fact was recognized by inserting a new title-page and omitting the printer's preface that would be no longer true."-Henry Morley's

Introduction to Troilus and Cressida,' Cassell's Library.

Internal evidence also favours the later date.

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Dublin. TENNYSON'S CROSSING THE BAR' (8th S. ii. 446; iii. 137, 178, 315, 357).-P. X. possibly has not read Mr. Theodore Watts's reply to C. The

Fort Augustus, N.B.


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"STOAT," ITS DERIVATION (8th S. ii. 349, 514). In Lincolnshire the stoat is known as a "clubtail"; clubstart." I recently heard a in Holderness, a man say he had seen a clubstart bolt into a holestock," that is, into the tiled tunnel beneath a gatestead. Stoat is from the Anglo-Saxon steort, a tail. We have the word also in redstart, a bird which is one of our common summer visitors. simply, and very properly, "red tail."

Eaton Hall, Retford.

This is


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TITUS OATES (8th S. iii. 156, 254, 353).—I saw my erroneous ways soon after I wrote, but would not correct the mistakes, being anxious not to flee from the deserved rebuke. But though an unusual, it is not quite an indefensible expression, that 1619 is later than 1649, when used of a birth, if the event is looked at from the standpoint of 1893. An undoubted entry exists, dated Jan. 4, 1674/5, signed by Titus as curate of All Saints', Hastings. EDWARD H. MARSHALL, M.A.

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COL. CHARTERS (8th S. ii. 428; iii. 34, 117, 192). In the account of Charters given in Knapp and Baldwin's' New Newgate Calendar' (London, n.d.) it is stated that his wife was "the daughter of Sir Alexander Swinton, of Scotland." There is a circumstantial account of his crimes, and particularly of the one for which he was condemned, in the article referred to; where also reference is made to "a fine mezzotinto print of him," "representing him standing at the bar of the Old Bailey, with his thumbs tied" (see 7th S. xi. 444, &c.), under which was an inscription beginning,—

Blood!-must a colonel, with a lord's estate,
Be thus obnoxious to a scoundrel's fate?
Brought to the bar, and sentenc'd from the bench,
Only for ravishing a country wench?

C. C. B. MARTIN LISTER, M.D., F. R.S. (8th S. iii. 286, 337, 391)-Besides Michael and Jane, Dr. Martin Lister had two daughters. Munk's 'Roll of Physicians' has the following respecting them:

"His book on conchology, Historia sive Synopsis Methodica Conchyliorum,' published in 1685, formed a new era in the science, and contributed chiefly to give celebrity to its author. It contains very accurate figures

of all the shells known in his time, amounting to upwards of a thousand, and it deserves to be recorded that they Lister. He also had a son Alexander of Balliol Col., Ox., were all drawn by his two daughters Susannah and Mary who mat. 9, 3, 1695/6, aged 16." C. H. I. G.

I do not know this name as architect of a church CHURCH DESIGNED BY LINDSEY (8th S. iii. 207). in Marylebone. It was the name of the builder, W. P. more probably.

REV. HENRY ADAMS (8th S. iii. 387).— Dec. 17, 1794." Catalogue of all the Graduates in the "Adams (Henry) Wadh. B.A. June 12, 1789.-M.A. University of Oxford,' 1851, p. 3.

Longford, Coventry.


COL. R. TOWNESEND: THOMAS CARTE (8th S. iii. 268).—It may help towards the elucidation of the point raised at the reference quoted, in the heading of which surely Col. R. Townesend's name was not required, to state that Thomas Carte, the historian, was the son of an Anglican clergyman, was born at Clifton-upon-Dunsmore, was educated at Rugby School and Brasenose College, Oxford, was ordained in the Church of England, was Chaplain to Bishop Atterbury and involved in his misfortunes, but was allowed eventually to return to England, where he died in 1754. The fact that he was buried in the chancel of Yattendon Church, Berkshire, is prima facie evidence that he remained in the Anglican communion. A. T. M.

HERALDIC (8th S. iii. 227).—I find in the pedigree of Lane, of Northamptonshire (Metcalfe's Visitations) that Robert Lane, of Walgrave, married Elizabeth Chancy. The Chancy arms are Or, three LEO CULLETON. chevrons engrailed gules.

ST. THOMAS'S DAY CUSTOM (8th S. iii. 29, 94, 158, 336).—Mr. C. H. Poole's book on 'The Customs, Superstitions, and Legends of the County of Stafford, was printed and published by Rowney & Co., 7, Whetstone Park, Lincoln's Inn Fields, London, W.C. J. BAGNALL.

Water Orton.

SILVER SWAN (8th S. iii. 387).-Your correspondent S. M. O. will find an interesting account

in Planché's 'Pursuivant of Arms' of the swan as a Lancastrian badge; but I cannot discover any reference to the order of the Silver Swan on my shelf of heraldic works, which now includes Norton-Elvin's last production, a comprehensive book, 'The Orders of Chivalry.'

As regards Richard II., this luxurious monarch had sundry badges, but the swan is not amongst them; perhaps the best known of the group is the White Hart.

In the chantry chapel of Henry V. at Westminster the swan is sculptured on the cornice, combined with the beacon and antelope, thus

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CAPT. RUSH (8th S. iii. 348).- The Royal Charlotte sailed from Portsmouth on her first Voyage to China August 11, 1796, having Henry Rush for fourth mate; on her second voyage Rush was third mate; on her third voyage he was second mate; on her fourth and fifth voyages Rush was first mate; and on her sixth voyage, sailing from Portsmouth April 5, 1809, Henry | Rush was her captain.

The name of the vessel and her captain will be found in Hardy's register of ships employed in the service of the honourable the United East India Company from the year 1760 to 1812.

C. H. I. G. In a list of ships of the Royal Navy in 1794 the Royal Charlotte occurs, being described as of ten guns, but the captain's name is not given. In 1822 the same vessel was described as a yacht under the command of Sir J. Brenton.



JOHN LISTON (8th S. iii. 143, 216, 252, 374).— Moll Flagon is one of the characters in Gen. Burgoyne's comic opera of 'The Lord of the Manor,' first played at Drury Lane December 27, 1780, when the part was played by Suett. Liston was certainly not accustomed to play female characters,

but Moll Flagon is not one that could well be
performed by an actress. I have a water-colour
drawing of Liston in this part by De Wilde, in
which he is represented in a partly military cos-
tume-presumably a sutler-smoking vigorously
from a short pipe. In proof that such an arrange-
ment is not uncommon, I may mention that Mr.
Keeley played Mrs. Caudle, and, if I mistake not,
Mrs. Gamp. The late James Rogers also appeared
in female parts.

Moll Flagon is a low camp-follower in Gen. Bargoyne's comic opera The Lord of the Manor,' produced at Drury Lane December, 1780. The character was originally played by Suett, and when Garden, and subsequently at Drury Lane and the the piece was successfully revived at Covent Haymarket, was very effective in Liston's hands. The original picture in oils by De Wilde-never, I think, engraved-representing Liston, Jones, and Hamerton as Moll Flagon, young Contrast, and Corporal Trim, happens to be in my possession. Liston, in black petticoat, in the leather pocket of which lurks a black bottle, blue check apron and stockings, old scarlet regimental coat and straw bonnet, with clay pipe in hand, is a comical figure. Genest says Moll Flagon was borrowed from Steele's Kate Matchlock in 'The Funeral.' Another highly amusing personation of Liston's was his Buy-a-broom Girl, a parody on Miss Love's performance. 'The Lord of the Manor' is to be found in Cumberland's "British Theatre." ROBERT WAlters.

Ware Priory.

BRIDGE AND CULVERT (8th S. iii. 248, 376).— I do not think any engineer would agree with your correspondents who state that a culvert with a flat top is a tunnel, and one without an invert a bridge. A culvert is a culvert, whether it is arched or has a flat top, and whether, owing to a bad or good foundation, it requires an invert or not. There are culverts without an invert, and bridges over watercourses with an invert. L. L. K.

WEDDING WREATHS (8th S. iii. 229, 332).—I am much obliged to MR. COLEMAN and MR. ANGUS for so kindly answering my question, and also to ALICE for the quotation she so kindly sent. I should like to know further when the orange blossom was first used in England, and what led to the adoption of this particular flower. Also, what is the modern Jewish custom; does the bride wear a wreath? What are the principal flowers worn by modern nations?


Permit me seriously to protest (although not anxious to be called a Protestant) against the assumption contained in MR. ANGUS's bracket, that "us [Catholics]" gives a definition of his own Church, to the exclusion of the Greek or of the Anglican. EDWARD H. MARSHALL, M.A. Hastings,

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