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societies, but had said, that the remedy was to give some sort of a reform of parliament. But would a reform of parliament content those discontented minds? Let the House examine coolly the evidence they were possessed of, and they could not deny, that reform would do nothing to tranquillize the ferment excited by the machinations of such malignant spirits. He could assure the hon. gentleman, however obnoxious the character of an attorney general was to those men, they felt as little respect for the doctrines of the hon. gentleman, unless he would go the full length of universal representation, and the other points of their political creed. Unless he would agree to the annihilation of monarchy, the subversion of aristocracy, and the confusion of property; unless he would agree to a system which would make every rich man poor, and no poor man rich, he was doing nothing. The hon. gentleman said, that there was no necessity for new laws, as the old ones were strong enough, and instanced the rebellions of 1715 and 1745, when the suspension of the Habeas Corpus was deemed sufficient. But what was the principle of those rebellions? It was a contention of rival royalties. The remedies then applied were commensurate with the case; but it did not apply to the parties of the present day, who wished that two branches of the legislature should not exist at all, and the third be founded on a different basis.-The hon. gentleman then alluded to certain prosecutions, and used as an argument against the necessity of new laws, that the old ones were not carried into execution. He would tell the hon. gentleman what he conceived to be the principle of the constitution; the constitution did not aim at perfection, farther than could with probability be attained; it endeavoured to guard against the danger that might occur from the generality of the terms used in framing any law; and, to prevent the chance of doing mischief, in removing an existing mischief. This he took to be the foundation of that principle of the English constitution, that justice should be administered in mercy. And it was as much a breach of the law to apply the letter of the law against its spirit, as to inflict punishment without the authority of any law at all; and hence flowed another principle of the constitution, that of applying, from time to time, to the legislature to suit the exigency of cir[VOL. XXXIV.]

So he said

cumstances just as they arose. with respect to prosecutions, being perfectly persuaded that one object of those men was, to destroy the liberty of the press by means of licentiousness. With that conviction on his mind, he should not do his duty, if he neglected to exercise the authority which the law had vested in him. In his situation as attorney general, he had such a bundle of papers in his possession, that he should be ashamed it were publicly known such had been the produce of the presses of this kingdom. But he could not go to the shops of obscure booksellers, in little alleys, and exercise a different law against them than what was put in force against the more extensive trader.--But the hon. gentleman had argued, that the laws were strong enough: that would best appear by a review of the four preceding yearswhen the Constitutional Society assumed a new character, when it enlisted and incorporated with itself the Corresponding Society, whose affiliated branches had debauched half the great towns in the kingdom. Though the objects which they pursued could not perhaps be made treason by the letter of the law, yet he felt no hesitation in now declaring, that from the facts then known, they warranted an indictment of high treason to be preferred against them, to call upon them for an explanation in order to qualify their acts, which, upon the face of them, appeared so very questionable. Supposing that the whole of the evidence which the House was now in possession of, had then been known, whole bodies of men could not be indicted for high treason; and therefore would it not be better policy, instead of pursuing with the severity of the law, to absolve the individuals and dissolve the societies, and thus prevent the necessity of extreme rigor? After the trials of 1794, several meetings took place in the neighbourhood of London, calculated not only to disturb the public peace, but to rob the poor labourer of a portion of his earnings, to support the traitorous purposes of the chiefs and leaders. By the law, as it then stood, they might unquestionably have been punished; but was it not better done, by the bill passed in parliament, to prevent those meetings? thus precluding the recurrence of the mischief, at the same time that it secured the freedom of every meeting for good or constitutional purposes.-But how could the law be applied to secret meetings, [3 S]

when the members were bound by oath not to give evidence against each other? Was it not, therefore, rather more desirable to apply new laws, than to bring forwards useless prosecutions?-The hon. gentleman had alluded to the suspension of the Habeas-Corpus act at former periods; but what would he say if the same course had been followed as in the periods to which he alluded; if he had informed himself of the extent of the numbers put in confinement, and never brought to any trial? If he had considered that point, he must have confessed that the present administration had conducted themselves with tenfold lenity compared with those periods. Was it not far better to effect this measure by the lenient measures adopted than by the forfeiture of lives, and the imposition of rigorous penalties? All agreed that the object of these societies were, to aid the influence of French principles, and therefore their dissolution was the great point to be effected.-The hon. gentleman mentioned the law which prohibited persons from going to France; but it was notorious that many persons had gone to France; that they carried on their correspondence with this country; and, in fact, it was not to be supposed that an act of parliament could have the power of preventing men from getting into a boat and sailing for France, if they were determined so to do. It was now a pretty notorious fact, that Mr. O'Connor had been guilty of high treason; but would it be severe to pass a law requiring him to quit his former connexion rather than to subject him to the penalties of the existing law?-He next came to that part which related to public debating societies. When the last bills upon the subject were brought forward, some of his tradesmen asked him, if he really meant to support a bill which would prevent them from drinking a social bowl together? Such an idea was never entertained; but the law has guarded that, under the pretence of instruction, those whose habits of life could not qualify them for such investigations, should not be seduced from the path of morality and religion. He would only request that gentlemen would to-morrow observe what subjects were announced in their bills for discussion, in order to determine whether they ought not to be put under some regulation. He would not know enter into the regulations of the newspaper bill; but to see the benefits which had resulted

from that measure, he only requested gentlemen to compare newspapers now, with what they were twelve months ago. Public and individual character was much more respected, and the necessity of a farther extension rested simply on this ground. An author publishes a libel, to which he affixes his name: the Corresponding Society immediately publish a new edition on cheap paper, which they circulate with unremitting industry. To this edition there is no publisher's name, nor any means of tracing the publication. It came, then, simply to this proposition, whether under some penalty they should be bound to tell who were the authors or publishers?

Mr. Abbot said, he differed so widely from the hon. member in thinking that the laws, as they stood at present, were sufficiently strong for the exigencies of the times, that he conceived the measures would have been still more complete, if they had extended to another object which was strikingly apparent upon the face of the present report, he agreed entirely with the chancellor of the exchequer, that the new forms and shapes which the dangers of the present times had assumed would unquestionably require that we should encounter them with new arms, and defend ourselves by new laws; but he thought that parliament would also do wisely in looking back to the policy of former times, and giving fresh force to those laws which our ancestors had considered to be indispensable to the public safety. Amongst the dangers of the present times we find it distinctly reported, not only that treasonable practices have been plotting by persons of mean note and desperate fortunes, but that," in some degree they have received the countenance and pecuniary aid of persons of a higher situation in life!" and it was most manifest, that all treasons must derive much of their mischievous force and effect from the countenance and aid of such leaders. That so it was recently found in Ireland, so it had been notoriously in the beginnings of the revolution in France, that so it has been in all times, the history of all countries abundantly proves; and it may be taken as incontestably true, that wherever there is such a relaxation of the laws as encourages such leaders to show themselves openly, it is the final warning of destruction to the government-it is the handwriting upon the wall, and all who look upon it must tremble--To check traitors

the cardinal of York, at this time an aged and miserable fugitive, of whom, where he now is, or whether he be living or dead, no man in this House can with any confidence assert. This, Sir, is the object which I wish to bring distinctly within the view of the House; and looking to the state of the law upon this matter as it now is, confronted with the treasonable practices exhibited in the report before us, I wish to ask of this House, whether it be

damental law of the state, which has prevailed for upwards of 700 years, which has "grown with our growth, and strengthened with our strength," should now come to an end? And whether it is at this season proper to invert the scale and proportion of crimes and punishments in an article so nearly connected with the safety of the throne? For unless parliament interposes now, however strange it may appear, it is most incontrovertibly true that it will be less penal to commit high treason than to commit common felony.-Having submitted these considerations to the House, he should not presume to propose any resolutions upon this subject at this time, although he was by no means at a loss to state it in such terms as would embrace the proposition for which he was contending, but if, upon mature reflection, the House should be disposed to agree with him in the im portance and prudence of the measure itself, he hoped it would be engrafted upon the rest in their progress through the House.

of this size, and repress mischiefs of this magnitude, it had been the invariable policy of the laws of England, from before the conquest down to the Revolution, to protect the throne and the constitution by ordaining that "lords of inheritance should be forfeited for treason." This system had been gradually extended in successive ages to different descriptions of landed property; and at length upon the union with Scotland, where the same policy had obtained, though within nar-wise or expedient to suffer that this funrower limits, the English law of forfeiture for treason was established in that country with all its consequences. He conceived it not to be necessary at this time to enter upon any vindication of the general ground of this policy; the wisdom and justice of it must have been long since understood by all gentlemen who had reflected upon this point of constitutional jurisprudence, and especially by those who had ever looked into the able vindication of it, which was published towards the middle of the present century by a person once eminently distinguished in the courts of Westminster hall and in that House, by his learning, his talents, and virtues, of whose name it would be praise enough to say, that it had not been eclipsed even by the splendid abilities of those who had succeeded him in the same high offices.But, Sir, although the law of forfeiture has been thus established and extended, singular as it may appear, the same parliament which extended it throughout Great Britain, did also in the same law, by some strange fatality, some infirmity of counsel, some prevalence of popular opinion, after recognizing its general expediency, seem to have supposed that no treason could spring up in this land, except such as must have its root in a predilection for the abdicated and exiled house of Stuart; and it enacted, that after the death of the then Pretender and the accession of the house of Hanover, no estate of inheritance should be forfeited for high treason. It is true, that in 1744, with the returning danger of the state, the energy of parliament seems also to have returned in some degree; but still the law fell short of its own professed end; and the forfeiture was enacted to "In a few days after I had made this continue only during the lives of the Pre-speech [on the union], I set forward for Westtender's sons. And the consequence is this, that at the present hour, whether landed inheritances are or are not forfeited by high treason, depends upon the life of the last descendant of that unfortunate race,

The resolutions were agreed to, and the said bills were afterwards brought in and passed.

Proceedings against Mr. Flower for a Paragraph in the Cambridge Intelligencer.] May 1. Lord Grenville said, that he had a Breach of Privilege to complain of, and moved that the bar be cleared. Strangers being withdrawn, his lordship made a complaint to the House of a paragraph in The Cambridge Intelligencer of the 20th of April, highly reflecting upon the bishop of Landaff,* and containing a breach of

moreland. Whilst I was on the road, lord Lords, one Flower, of Cambridge, for having Grenville brought to the bar of the House of been guilty of a breach of privilege, in publishing something against my speech; what that something was I never deigned to in

the privileges of the House. The said paper being read,-Resolved, "That the said paper is a gross and scandalous libel upon the right reverend Richard, lord bishop of Landaff, a member of this House; and a high breach of the privileges of this House." Ordered, "That the serjeant at arms do forthwith attach the body of Benjamin Flower, of Cambridge, printer, and bring him to the bar of this House on Friday next, to answer for the said offence.".

May 3. Mr. Flower being brought to the bar, he was informed of the complaint made against him; and Mr. Flower having been heard as to what he had to say in answer to the said complaint, and having

quire. The punishment inflicted by the House was, as I remember, imprisonment for six months, and a fine of 100l. I sent the following letter to lord Grenville on the occasion; for I thought myself the more obliged to him, as I had no acquaintance with his lordship, and was wholly ignorant that I had been the object of Mr. Flower's abuse.--

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acknowledged himself to be the printer and publisher of the said paper," Resolved, 1. That the said B. Flower is guilty of a high breach of the privileges of this House. 2. That he do, for his said offence pay a fine to the king of 100%. and that he be committed prisoner to Newgate for the space of six months, and until he pay the said fine.”

re

Report from the Lords Committee of Secrecy relative to a Treasonable Conspi racy, &c.] May 27. Lord Grenville ported from the Lords Committee appointed to inspect the Papers delivered by his majesty's command (sealed up in a bag), containing secret information received by his majesty's government, relative to the proceedings of different persons and societies in Great Britain and Ireland engaged in a Treasonable Con spiracy, and to the design carried on by our enemies, in concert with such persons and societies, for effecting the separation of Ireland from this kingdom:

That the said papers, and the other infor mations which have been laid before them, contain the most decisive evidence of an extensive conspiracy carried on with unremitted industry, both in Great Britain and in Ireland, for the destruction of the laws and govern

tablishment, both in church and state; and for imposing, by force, on the people of these realms, under the influence and by the aid of France, a system subversive of public order, morality, and religion.

Calgarth Park, Kendal, May 10, 1799. "My Lord;---I yesterday learned from the newspapers what has passed in the House ' of Lords relative to Mr. Flower. I am sen'sible that your lordship has taken up this ' matter from your great attention to the pub-ment; for the overthrow of every existing eslic service; yet I must beg you to allow me the liberty of returning you my thanks for "the protection which you have thereby af'forded to myself. As I am an utter stranger 'to the person and character of Mr. Flower, and wholly ignorant of the magnitude of his offence; I cannot, therefore, with propriety, 'interfere in soliciting a mitigation of punishment; but if any application should be made to the House for that purpose, I will trouble your lordship to say, that the bishop of Landaff, as an individual, will feel much more satisfaction in forgiving the man's malignity, than in avenging it. I have, &c.

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R. LANDAFF.'

"Lord Grenville's Answer, dated Dropmore, May 14, 1799.

"My lord;---I was this morning honoured with your lordship's obliging letter. In the instance to which it relates, I have only dis. charged a public duty; but it was with pleasure that I availed myself of the occasion, to express my respect for the character of a person, whose exertions in the defence of religion are, I am persuaded, the real cause of the scandalous and unprovoked calumnies against him. If any application is made to the House in behalf of Mr. Flower, I will not fail to obey your lordship's commands. I am, &c. GRENVILLE---Anecdotes of the Life of Bishop Watson, by Himself, vol. 2. p. 89.

In the formation and progress of this conspiracy, your Committee have seen a constant and systematic adherence to that course which, having opened the way to all the calamities and crimes of France, has since been uniformly pursued by all those who, in various parts of Europe, have engaged in similar designs: and your Committee are therefore decidedly of opinion, that the criminal proceedings which have been established in evidence before them, are not to be considered merely as the acts of unconnected and obscure individuals, but as branches and members of an extensive and complicated system, which aims at nothing less than to subvert the whole order of society as now established in Europe. The means which are every where ultimately looked to for the accomplishment of this design have been exhibited in France in their fullest operation and extent; they have unhappily been (though in a less degree) exemplified in Ireland; and it is the painful duty of your Committee to lay before this House a general view of the plan which has been pursued by a part of their fellow-subjects in this kingdom, in order to prepare the way here for similar scenes of insurrection, rebellion, and

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civil bloodshed. The necessity of entering | been the invariable objects of these multiplied in this Report into a detailed and historical and continued endeavours. enumeration of the different transactions which are included under this general description, is, however, superseded by the distinct and particular statement of them which is contained in the Report of the Secret Committee of the House of Commons, which has been communicated to your lordships, and referred to your Committee.* The whole of that most important document your Committec beg leave earnestly to recommend to the particular attention of your lordships. They have found it supported throughout by the evidence which has been laid before the Committees of both Houses; and the truth of several of the facts there stated, as well as the authenticity of the sources of information from which they were drawn, have received additional confirmation from circumstances which have been disclosed even since the date of that Report.

In any attempt to trace the outlines and leading features of the system established and acted upon by the disaffected in this kingdom, the first point which claims attention is the indefatigable industry employed for deceiving and misleading the people at large, and particularly the lower classes of the community. To poison the minds of persons of this description with opinions destructive of their own happiness, and inconsistent with the very ends and nature of all government, has always, and in every country, been the principal endeavour of those who are engaged in these conspiracies for promoting the principles of the French revolution. Your Committee deem it almost unnecessary to recall to the recollection of this House to what extent and with what success this measure was first adopted in France. They have seen abundant proof that, for many years past, and down to the present moment, the same means have been unremittedly pursued here by those who have unquestionably had the same objects in view. It would be an endless and most disgusting task to enumerate the almost infinite variety of impious, immoral, and seditious publications with which the press has of late years been loaded, both in Great Britain and in Ireland, and which appear to have in great part (if not wholly) proceeded from the persons engaged in this conspiracy. From this system of attack, nothing has been held sacred. To revile our holy religion, to undermine the foundations of our faith, to subvert every established principle both of political and moral duty, to destroy all sense of allegiance to our sovereign, all attachment to the forms and principles of our happy constitution, to eradicate every sentiment of national character, and to render the people of these realms indifferent both to the dangers and to the successes of their country, have

*For a Copy of the Commons Report, see

P. 579.

The zeal with which these doctrines have been disseminated, and the peculiar mode of their circulation, are however deserving of particular attention. They appear to be principally addressed, not to that class of society whose habits might enable them, in some degree, to judge of the tendency of such opinions, but to those whose station and occupations have in great measure debarred them even from that degree of knowledge. With this view, these writings have been printed in numerous editions, and in the cheapest forms; they have even been distributed gratis, and in large quantities; and their circulation among the labouring classes has been a principal oc cupation of emissaries deputed to various parts of the country from the societies established in this metropolis. The same object has been pursued by inflammatory language, by seditious discourses, by lectures publicly delivered, by tumultuous assemblies convened in the neighbourhood of the capital and of other populous places, and by every other means which appeared best calculated to excite throughout the country a spirit of general hostility to its religion and government, and to delude to the commission of the most atrocious crimes, those whose situation most exposed them to this seduction.

In this close imitation of the beginnings of the French revolution, the advantage which in that country had been derived to the supporters of these principles, from their success in corrupting the soldiery, could not escape the observation of those who, in these kingdoms, were labouring in the samecause. Your Committee have accordingly found, by clear and multiplied proofs, that repeated endeavours have been employed to taint his majesty's fleets and armies, by the introduction of a spirit of insubordination and mutiny, inconsistent with the duty of subjects, and still more with that discipline which is the indispensable foundation of all military service. Wherever in any part of those gallant and meritorious bodies of men any trace of such a spirit has appeared, to this cause it is principally to be ascribed; and it is much more to their loyalty, fidelity, and steady sense of duty, than to any want of industry employed to mislead them, that the ultimate failure of this part of the conspiracy is to be attributed.

Following the same example of the progress and success of the measures employed to promote the cause of the revolution in France, the next object to which the conspirators in these kingdoms appear to have turned their attention was, the formation of popular societies, which, like those established in the earlier periods of the French revolution, might supersede the authority of gogovernment, of whatever description, and enable their leaders to assume and exercise, at their discretion, the whole power of the country, civil and military,

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