STATEMENT OF RAYMOND S. HOFSES, MEMBER OF THE SCHOOL BOARD, READING, PA.

Mr. HOFSES. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, at home in Reading I am a member of the school board, one of the four Socialist members of the school board, on a board of nine. I also have been for the past 12 years the editor of the official organ the Socialist Weekly of the Socialist Party of Reading, and of the Federated Trade Councils, embracing all the affiliated unions of that district, so while I have not been delegated to come here by iabor

Mr. DOUGLASS. Are you affiliated with the American Federation of Labor?

Mr. HOFSES. Oh, yes. While I have not been delegated by the Federated Trades Council to come here, coming here more as a school director and public official, nevertheless I think I can say that I am in a position to get in touch with the general conditions and the general opinion of the workers and interpret just what they have in mind.

This year the Reading School Board adopted vocational training courses for its high schools under the provisions of the Smith-Hughes Act. It was done after a number of conferences in Reading which were participated in by representatives of organized employers, civic clubs, and organized labor. Proposed as it was by some of our civic clubs, and advocated most strongly by organized employers, it would have seemed at the start, and it did seem at the start, that in the eyes of labor the proposition was damned by its friends, because in Reading the class lines are drawn rather more sharply than anywhere else.

To give you a better understanding, I will say for those who don't know, that Reading has a 100 per cent socialist city government, which information is vital to you gentlemen to show that we are somewhat the interpreters, if not the molders of public opinion in Reading.

Mr. SCHAFER. Is it socialist in practice, or only socialist for political purposes, as we have in Milwaukee?

Mr. HOFSES. We must be socialist only in education under capitalism. We can not be socialists under capitalism. We can only educate toward the day. We can not be socialists under capitalism any more than we could be Christians-well, in hell.

So, we do understand what the people of Reading want. The proposition to adopt vocational education in Reading arose, and aroused a good deal of opposition on the part of the socialists and the labor group of Reading. They at once called attention to the fact that there are many unemployed mechanics who served an apprenticeship system, and they wanted to know whether the schools were going to flood the market with new mechanics who would compete for jobs. They also asked the question "Is the school to subsidize the employer and make it necessary for him to make apprentices?"

Those were the objections which were raised, but we came to this conclusion in Reading; that while there is unemployment and if there are, as the result of educational training, more trained men on the market, and if that does result in an increase in unemployment, that is an entirely different problem.

The viewpoint from which we viewed the question was from the viewpoint of education entirely. Our schools to-day send boys into the world generally equipped to be business men. That is, to work

in offices as bookkeepers or stenographers, or to go to college. Only a small percentage of our boys have the opportunity to do either. Most of our young people, and that means the large part, have to work and should work, and they work in the industries.

Now, the question is not whether there are jobs to provide for these boys. The question is is it real education, and that is the question we asked ourselves in the final analysis, and on which we based our judgment. Is it real education to train boys so that they know how to coordinate hand and brain? Is it educational to give the boy not only arithmetic for itself, but arithmetic applicable to the task which he might reasonably be expected to do when he goes out into llfe, and of course we decided that we would keep on hammering at the real cause of the other problem and decide this question on its merits, from an educational viewpoint, and we decided that it was a very good thing to train boys and girls to know why they were studying academic subjects, to know why they were doing things in the shops, and for that reason very largely the organized workers of Reading gave their approval to the introduction of vocational training under the Smith-Hughes provision in the Reading schools.

It was done after consultation with as many people as we could touch who knew or had investigated the possibilities and the workings out of the system. It was done after much thought, and it was done as parents, not as workers, of the future generation.

We decided vocational training will best fit our boys and girls to enter life when the time comes that they must do so.

There is another factor in Reading. In Reading there are over half the boys and girls between the ages of 14 and 16 who work. They go to continuation school, a very unhealthy condition, and we hope that the opportunity to have vocational training furnished on a cooperative basis, where they work for two weeks and then go back into school for two weeks, and learn the academic subjects relative to the trade to which they are aspiring, we hope that that opportunity will keep those boys and girls from going to continuation school and keep them in a studious frame of mind and keep them from accepting jobs which lead them, as in the case of most jobs which are accepted at the age of 14, nowhere, and give them no viewpoint, no vision, and for that reason again, I say, as parents, we gave our O. K. to vocational training in Reading.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Mr. DENNIS. I am now going to ask Mr. Gebhardt, Secretary of the Manufacturers' Association at York, Pa., to make a statement.

STATEMENT OF G. B. GEBHARDT, SECRETARY MANUFACTURERS' ASSOCIATION, YORK, PA.

Mr. GEBHARDT. Mr. Reed and gentlemen of the committee, I shall be very brief. In the first place, I represent the manufacturers of the city of York, Pa., who are very much interested in cooperative industrial training. As a matter of fact, we stress the point that we were the first city in the State of Pennsylvania that adopted parttime training. As a matter of fact, we started in 1911, so that we have passed any experimental stage. We have now passed 19 years of it.

Briefly I just want to say that we have had 617 graduates of this course of ours, and in answering one of the questions, which if I understood it correctly, was as to the number or percentage that are following the training that they received. We have 440 following the trade, which represents 71 per cent.

Another question arose as to whether those men who had received this mechanical education remained in our city or not, and I find that 375 of this 440 are still in York. I can point also to two industries, rather new industries, but nevertheless the proprietors of both of them are the product of our cooperative industrial course, so that it has really meant something.

These boys spend two weeks in the school and two weeks out of the school. Ever since we have had the course they have earned, collectively, about a half a million dollars, and I might also say that we follow those boys up to find out. We send them questionnaires in order to determine just with what success they have made use of this industrial course which we have provided for them. For instance, just last year we found that 31 of the 54 graduates, or 57 per cent, would not have remained in the high school had it not been for this particular part-time course.

Mr. Chairman, I have quite a detailed pamphlet here, prepared by our director, and I would be very glad, with your permission, to leave this with you. It gives you all the details.

The CHAIRMAN. With the permission of the committee, we will insert it as part of the record.

Mr. GLOVER. Mr. Chairman, while the other speaker is getting ready, I have telegrams and letters here from educators of my State, which I would like to insert in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I would like to have inserted in the record at this time also, a statement by Congressman Burtness, of North Dakota.

Mr. DENNIS. Mr. Chairman, I have an engagement to leave by airplane, and I will just have to leave at this point, but I would like to ask Mr. Miller to introduce the men who are to follow, with one exception. There is one other representative of the Manufacturers' Association of Pennsylvania from the city of Lancaster, where we have had a program of industrial education for a number of years, and I would like Mr. H. M. Hoover, representing the Manufacturers' Association of Lancaster, to make a statement, if he will, and then I would like to ask these other gentlemen who have been under the necessity of speaking too briefly, to file what additional statements they wish that bear directly on the question.

Mr. SCHAFER. Pennsylvania has been very well represented. You have had doctors, representatives of industry, and representatives of the Manufacturers' Association. Would it not be possible to incorporate in the record a statement from the President of the State Federation of labor in your State?

Mr. DENNIS. We can. We can get additional testimony if you desire it. We did not know the hearing would be limited this morning or we would perhaps not have brought as many as we have. We thought there would be more time. I am going to ask those who have not had an opportunity to speak to file their statements with you. The CHAIRMAN. We will make those statements a part of the hearings.

STATEMENT OF MR. R. F. CAREY, DIRECTOR, WYOMISSING TRADE SCHOOL
WYOMISSING, PA., May 8, 1930.

Hon. DANIEL A. REED,
Chairman of the House Committee on Education,

Washington, D. C.

DEAR SIR: I am one of those who attended yesterday's hearing on H. R. 10821 and am submitting the following, as requested:

I have been identified with industrial education for the past 19 years, the main difference between vocational educational in the public schools and industrial education in industry being, that in the latter, industry pays the bill. The objectives are identical.

The Wyomissing Trade School, of which I am director, was organized in 1927 by the owners of the Textile Machine Works, America's largest manufacturer of full-fashioned knitting machines; the Berkshire Knitting Mills, America's largest producer of women's full-fashioned silk stockings, and the Narrow Fabric Co., a large manufacturer of braided fabrics. Without reflection on similar activities, it is the most elaborate attempt that has been made on the part of American industry to develop a corps of highly skilled mechanics by the apprenticeship route.

I am in favor of this bill for it appeals to me as being an answer, not necessarily the answer, but at least an answer to the question as to where is Amercian industry going to obtain its skilled artisans of the future. Restricted immigration, with which I am heartily in favor, has curtailed the supply of skilled artisans from abroad and as a result, the question of skilled labor for the future resolves itself into a matter of training American boys for a life of usefulness in American industry.

The National Industrial Conference Board, one of America's highest authorities on matters pertaining to industry, has stated that America needs 750,000 apprentices. The 1920 census states that there are but 144,000 apprentices many of whom may be learners and helpers. This leaves a deficit of some 600,000.

The larger industrial organizations are doing much in the way of apprentice training to meet the needs of the future, but the vastly larger number of smaller concerns are very hesitant to enter this field for lack of facilities, personnel and due to the expense.

The Society for the Promotion of Engineering Education through its committee of investigation has stated that there are adequate facilities now in existence to train a sufficient number of technical men to meet the needs of industry, but that there is a very serious lack of training facilities of less than college grade.

Here is where the public schools have the opportunity to step in and fit its wards for a life of usefulness in an industry to the benefit of the child, the industry and the State. This, I believe, answers the question of the gentleman from Massachusetts.

Vocational education in the public schools is expensive due to the equipment necessary and without more of such aid as is provided by the Smith-Hughes Act and supporting legislation, the opportunity in its greatest application must be passed by.

Due to the vast number of skilled artisans required by industry year by year, it is difficult to conceive how there can be any competition between industry in the training of its apprentices and vocational training as conducted by the public schools.

STATEMENT OF H. M. HOOVER, REPRESENTING THE MANUFACTURERS' ASSOCIATION OF LANCASTER, PA.

Mr. HOOVER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I just want to take a moment. In the first place, I am representing, as has been suggested, the Manufacturers' Association of Lancaster. In the second place, I am a card member of a union. I am also personnel director of a large industrial concern, and the one thing that impresses me most vitally, and I think I speak for my community, is the fact that there daily appear before me men of high school, college, and university education, who have no means, no vocational training, or means

whereby they can direct their efforts into useful channels and who have to wander around before they can find themselves.

That is the saddest thing I encounter, with one exception, and that is the rapid, almost maelstromic changes taking place in industry. Men are suddenly being displaced who can not find their way back, and I hope that at some time that will be the shibboleth of every man in America, that no man will be denied an opportunity to train himself for a useful capacity in industry, where he can retain his selfrespect as a workman and as a citizen.

As an employer of labor and director of personnel I should like to see this bill enacted. I am daily impressed with the woeful lack of vocational training as manifested by grade school and high school graduates and college and university graduates. I am more impressed with the utter helplessness of men of middle age whose work habits have left their impress upon them and whose lack of flexibility places them in the unemployable class largely due to lack of technological skill.

The mechanization of industry, and its methods of mass production call for a flexible dexterity that only training of a varied and versatile character can develop.

Developing this versatility and teaching varied manipulative skill can not safely be left in the hands of a skillful technician inasmuch as the skill he has developed does not make a successful teacher of him. Production easy for him and forgetting the various steps he has gone through to acquire his dexterity makes him as a rule impatient with the awkwardness of the beginner. Hence the solution is largely in the hands of a teacher specifically trained to develop, step by step, the training necessary to give the man a new confidence, a new grip on life, and it is my understanding of this bill that it will place in the hands of the various States and Territories additional funds for the furtherance of this most worthy cause.

Therefore, gentlemen, in behalf of the boy who will enter industry, in behalf of the men already engaged in industry, many of whom will themselves be caught in the maelstrom of industrial revolution, and in behalf of those citizens whose age and mental fixity have unfitted them to find and hold their place in industry, and in the hope that it will become the shibboleth of every American that no man willing to help create and maintain American industrial supremacy shall be denied the training that will fit him into some niche where he can maintain his confidence in his own ability as a workman, his self-respect as a citizen, and his firm adherence to the principles of democracy that has made America the miracle of the ages.

To this end, gentlemen, I urge upon you that you give your unqualified support to this bill, believing, as I do, that it will be of material assistance in helping to a solution problems which at present are causing American industry to sweat blood.

STATEMENT OF WESLEY O'LEARY, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION, NEW JERSEY

Mr. O'LEARY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I would like to file first, an indorsement from the Silk Dyers' Association of America, an employers association.