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a large tract of waste land in Ireland. proceedings was that in a short time He took an interest in the reclamation after he was barbarously murdered. I of this waste; he had improved much of have been told by an experienced land the land himself, and had encouraged agent in Ireland that this was one very his tenants to do a great deal more. notorious case which arose entirely from He let a quantity of land of this de- a misunderstanding between the parties scription, which in its then state was as to their rights; but that this is only utterly worthless, to a number of tenants one out of the multitude of such cases.

an agreement, as was afterwards Almost the majority of these outrages alleged, that for a certain number of arise from differences of opinion between years they should pay only a nominal the occupier on the one side and the rent, but that, after the expiration owner on the other as to what is just to of that term, a higher rent should be each. And your Lordships will observe required; that rent was to be gra- that, though there may be an honest dually increased, and was to represent difference of opinion, and though in a ultimately the fair value of the lands; majority of cases both parties believe and, on the other hand, the tenants who themselves to be in the right, yet the were to reclaim this land were to be al- law, which leaves the rights and claims lowed facilities for getting lime and of both parties thus uncertain and unother things for the purposes of these im- defined, does enable bad men, whether provements. The improvements were landlords or tenants, to be guilty of carried out successfully. A great deal of great injustice and great crime. Supland, from being utterly worthless, was pose that, in the case I have men. made fertile and productive. But, after tioned, the person who had allowed some years, the gentleman by whom the these improvements had really agreed arrangement was made was dead; I be- that the tenants who undertook them lieve a great many of his tenants were should enjoy, for a much longer time dead also ; and the time came when the than they actually did, the full benefit of new owner of the property asked to have their labour, there was still nothing to an increased rent from the occupiers of prevent him from being guilty of grierthe land. They, on their part, said that the ous oppression by insisting on resuming increased value of the land was entirely possession of the land, or on higher rents due to their labour; they declined to pay before his tenants would have recovered a higher rent, and there was also dis- the cost of the improvements they had putes with regard to the terms on which made; and, though these cases of opthey were to have lime. I do not know pression are undoubtedly rare, I am which of these parties was in the right. afraid it is impossible to doubt that I think it is highly probable that the such cases do occur, that oppression is gentleman who let the land in this in some instances, deliberately committed. manner had contemplated that he should and that these cases are sufficiently nuultimately have an increased rent in merous to create among the tenantry of consideration of letting the land for a Ireland a general sense of insecurity aná considerable number of years at a low wrong. Now one defect in the existing rent. That is highly probable; but the law is that it does practically preven reverse may have happened. It is a written agreements between the parties. question on which a difference of opi- It also, as I have said, leads to cases of nion was very natural. But, unhap- injustice and oppression. But, further, pily, there being no record, no formal it em bitters the relations between landagreement, and no lease, and the land lord and tenant in this manner—it probeing held from year to year under vides no cheap, simple, and easy mode the owner, the new owner had the by which disputes may be settled, and complete power of enforcing his own the performance of agreements enforced

. view of the case, without regard to what Landlords are now very much discourmight be the feelings of the tenants. The aged from granting leases by the fac: law was clearly on his side. He could that, if they do so, they have not any compel the tenants—either to give up the easy means of enforcing them. And, as land or to pay the rent which he de- these faults exist in the present law, and manded; and I presume, supposing him- oppression occurs under it, those who

I self to be right he determined on en- are agitating this question from misforcing his rights. The result of these chievous motives enjoy an advantage

which they ought not to possess in ex- entirely without the means of obtaining citing hostile feelings among the 03- it, and without any means of redress or cupiers of land. As I have said, there subsistence whatever, and the labourers is a real grievance. People feel it who look to the larger proprietors for deeply, and feel it every hour of their support and assistance will thus be lives; but it is difficult for them on placed in a much worse position. The a question of this kind to understand evidence is quite conclusive which goes what the real remedy is, and there to show that labourers who are in the fore they are easily deluded by those worst condition in Ireland are those who who come to them and tell them live on the small properties ; nor is it "You are now liable to oppression and difficult to see why that should be the wrong. Support the measures we pro- case. But there is another notion, which pose and you will be saved from all this is that compensation ought to be given injustice.” This is the result of allowing to the tenant for improvements. That a grievance of this kind to exist without is undoubtedly a very popular notion. taking some means of redressing it, We are all in favour of giving compenthose who suffer are induced to adopt sation to those who, at their own expense, the views and become the ready instru- have improved the land which they hold; ments of agitators who endeavour to ex- but then the question is in what manner cite them. There are two special objects that compensation is to be given? My which these agitators endeavour to bring noble Friend the Secretary of State for before the minds of the peasantry- the Colonies has told us that various fixity of tenure and compensation for Bills have been brought foward by sucimprovements. Now, fixity of tenure cessive Governments, all disposed to means nothing more nor less than trans- admit this principle that, under certain ferring to others a large part of the circumstances, compulsory compensation property which now belongs to the land should be provided for the tenant. I lords. It is, in fact, confiscation. But, grant that this has been the case; nor do besides that, no man, I think, can have I wish now to question the motives which

I read the evidence given before the Com- led to the measures giving compulsory mittees of both Houses of Parliament compensation being introduced. I think, without coming to the conclusion that however, I am warranted in saying that any provision such as this must tend to these measures when brought forward the injury of those very persons on have invariably been found not to stand whose behalf it is desired. We know the test of even comparatively careless from past experience how little ad criticism. It has been found in the case vantage is derived from land being held of all of them, when closely examined, in small allotments on long leases in Ire- that the effect of giving compensation in land, and how little it is usually improved the manner which they proposed, must by such tenants. We know, moreover, lead to far more injustice than practhat the tendency is to divide and sublet tically arises under the existing law. land which is held for long periods until You say the landlord is to give comit is reduced into small allotments, utterly pensation to his tenant for improveincapable of supporting in any tolerable ments. That is very fair; but upon comfort those who hold them, so that, what is the claim of the tenant to be through such subdivision, they are ex- founded ? It must be for improvement posed in bad seasons to certain famine in the value of the land which he occuand starvation. We know that that is pies. Now, in many cases, the works the tendency; but we know also that called improvements, for which compenwhat is called fixity of tenure will give sation is claimed, are not improvements the small tenants in Ireland uncontrolled in the land at all. One of the most dominion over property, and would ordinary improvements for which comoperate with extreme hardship on those pensation is claimed is a house which below them for there is a labourer's may be built on a farm far too small to as well as an occupier's question to be support it. Is that an improvement which considered in dealing with this subject. can be looked upon as advantageous to Every man does not hold land; and if the landlord? Very much the reverse. you give the present tenants positive and It is, on the contrary, a deterioration to permanent security of tenure all those his property: it increases the difficulwho do not now hold land will be left ties in the way of gradually consolida

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ting the property, so that those who oc- claims for compensation seemed likely to cupy will have a chance of obtaining a be given : they said that, when there reasonable living; and yet it is sought was a chance of Parliament establishing to compel the landlord-against whose a right of that kind, it would be unwise wish this house may have been built-to and imprudent for the landlord to part pay the value of such an improvement, with his land and place it beyond his although he might much prefer being own control for a period of several years. without it. Such a proposal is opposed, If he lets his land only from year to in my opinion, to all our notions of equity. year, and his tenants attempt to make But there is hardly any description of im- improvements of which he disapproves, provement for which compensation could he has an easy remedy to resort to by be claimed, such as fencing and perhaps giving them notice to quit; but if he even draining, which may not, in certain gives them a twenty-one years' lease cases, be very injudicious, and not in and Parliament afterwards steps in and reality calculated to increase the value of says the tenant shall be entitled to make the land. Another question also arises in improvements whether the landlord apdealing with this matter. Before com- proves them or not, and to call upon pensation can be claimed, it ought to be him to pay for those improvements at shown that the improvement has been the end of his tenancy, the landlord really carried out at the expense of the may be exposed to very serious loss, and tenant and has not been already paid will hesitate to grant a lease for so long for by the landlord—when you come to a time. That is practically the state of look back over a tenancy of twenty or things at this moment. Landlords are thirty years' standing, there is nothing almost afraid to grant leases, because more difficult than to prove that this is they feel that they may be used against the case; and we know from experience them. I have now stated very imperthat the most preposterous claims on the fectly some of the objections whi part of tenants for improvements have to me against giving to tenants this power been put forward at the end of long leases. of demanding compulsory compensation We have the evidence of a gentleman who for improvements, but I cannot pass filled the position of a Master in Chancery from this point without mentioning one in Ireland—a gentleman, I believe, of fact. One of the most experienced land great ability and judgment — who was, agents in Ireland was examined on this under the orders of the Court of Chancery, subject, and was asked what effect such directed to report upon certain property legislation would, in his opinion, have with respect to which numerous claims on the mutual relations between landfor compensation were brought forward lord and tenant in Ireland. He said be by the tenantry. The claims came to had often thought with horror of the a large amount; but when this gentle effect which giving stringent powers of man went to the spot and examined into that kind to the tenant against the landthe matter, he found that they were quite lord would have in the multiplication preposterous, and being an impartial of evictions, and in producing misunand disinterested man, he reported to the derstanding and ill-will between landCourt of Chancery that no valid claim lords and tenants in every part of the whatsoever for compensation existed in country. Such, speaking from memory, that case.

All these questions must be were nearly the exact words which were considered when you are proposing to used by the gentleman to whom I am give a right to claim compulsory compen- referring. Such being the state of sation. But more than that-if you at- things, my noble Friend (the Marques tempt to legislate on the principle of of Clanricarde) asks your Lordships to giving compulsory compensation, you give a second reading to a Bill which must bear in mind that you thereby are has been very carefully considered in all giving to the landlord an enormous mo- its details by the Committee of last year. tive to exercise the power which he un- The Bill is one which proceeds doubtedly possesses to prevent such very simple principle. It requires, in the claims from being brought against him. first place, that all future agreements with A land agent was examined by us, who respect to land in Ireland shall be in writstated distinctly that landlords' had ing, and it provides the means by which changed their opinions as to the expe- those agreements can be made most diency of granting leases since those simply, cheaply, and expeditiously. It

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so entirely reduces their cost that it will give you warning that we shall do our not be an object to the smallest farmer. best to defeat it in the House of ComIt provides also for having those agree- mons.” Now, I must say I do not think ments registered, as well as means by that is a course which ought to have been which the landlord and the tenant may taken. If it is thought that a compuleach introduce into them any conditions sory system of compensation for imwhich they may think proper. Then provements ought to be engrafted on the Bill gives the freest and most unfet- this Bill, there is no reason why Amendtered powers to the parties concerned to ments to effect that object should not be come fairly to an agreement; and it fur- proposed in this House when the meather provides a simple and effectual sure is under consideration in Commeans of enforcing the agreements so mittee; but it is a most reckless thing made. Either party will be enabled to for my noble Friend to assert, as he has obtain a legal decision on any point that done to-night, that there ought to be in may be disputed with very little delay, some form or other regulations for comand at a very slight expense. The Bill pulsory compensation in respect of improvides for the earliest possible settle- provements, while, at the same time, he ment of all disputes, and for preventing abstains altogether from defining what their growing up to such a frightful those regulations should be. He declines height as they do under the present to inform us how the difficulties which system. It likewise contains provisions beset the subject are to be dealt with, of the highest importance for enabling and merely tells us that it will be postlandlords and tenants to make arrange- poned to another year. Does

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noble ments between themselves with regard Friend remember that the postponement to the improvement of the soil. It ar- of this subject to another year involves ranges in what proportion the expenses another winter in Tipperary? If Her shall be borne and the advantages reaped Majesty's Government refuse to do their by both parties, so that there shall be best in order to enable Parliament to no possible doubt as to their respective calm the minds of men in regard to this rights and claims. Besides all this, the great question, they will be morally reBill gives great facilities to the holders sponsible for the consequences which of entailed estates and other limited may ensue. My Lords, a letter has owners to grant leases for terms of years, been recently addressed to one of the and to make arrangements with their principal newspapers in Ireland, by a tenants for improvements extending be- person who considers himself aggrieved yond the time for which they may them- by the existing state of the law. He selves hold their land, care being of sayscourse taken that the rights of all par- “ As to the Church, it is comparatively noties interested shall be duly respected. thing; as to any other question, it is of minor This

, my Lords, is a short description of importance, but what we want now is protection the main objects of the Bill, which has in regard to the land.” been brought into this House more than He adds that his own case is a most once, and which has been drawn with cruel one, and that he is threatened great care by Mr. Tighe Hamilton, who with eviction, and that it is our business has spared no pains in endeavouring to to settle this question without any fureffect all the improvements suggested by ther delay. He then repeats that there the Committee. The Bill in its present is no other subject to be compared with shape is, in my belief, well-fitted to pass this in urgency and importance, and into law, and would be a most satis- says that it ought to be settled withfactory piece of legislation. But

, if Her out delay. No doubt this writer thinks Majesty's Government are of a different we ought to settle it by giving him the opinion, there is nothing to prevent their complete property in his land. I do not proposing such alterations in it as they say that; but I do say that we ought at may consider to be be required. And once to determine in some way or other this is what I think they ought to have the relative positions of landlords and done instead of saying, as my noble occupiers of land in Ireland. My noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies Friend's balanced phrases, one for the has said in effect"You may pass it landlord and another for tenant, can through this House if you like, but do nothing but unmixed mischief. What we advise you not to do so, and is required of Her Majesty's Govern

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ment is that they should take this Bill Bill contained many good provisions, into consideration, and either adopt or and that some would afford an excellent reject it. In the event of their being basis for legislation ? Nor can I make convinced that this measure will not the objections which my noble Friend settle the question in a satisfactory way, opposite is so anxious to hear in order it is their duty to call upon this House that he may demolish them in his reply. to throw it out; but it is placing the I think the noble Marquess is entitled to House in an unfair and improper posi- great praise for drawing up the Bill: tion to say that, though your Lordships and I think the Bill has been considerably may pass this Bill

, the Government will improved by the labours of the Select throw it out in the other House.

Committee, and that it is now a good THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: My Bill. But I desire to point out that i: Lords, I can assure my noble Friend certainly will not be accepted in Ireland that I am not at all alarmed at the as a settlement of the land question. minatory tone of his remarks against My noble Friend has remarked that it is Her Majesty's Government. Her Ma- a very dangerous thing to hold out lanjesty's Government will choose their guage to the people of Ireland that own time and their own manner for might be misunderstood. One would dealing with the matter, whatever may suppose, from what we have heard tobe the opinions and, I might almost night, that this question had arisen but say, the menaces of my noble Friend. yesterday—that it was something nef; In point of fact, my noble Friend wishes but it has—unhappily I admit—been to induce the House to take the course agitated in Ireland for many years; and which he failed to induce the Committee it is a question as to which both the that inquired into the subject to take great parties in the State, when under last year. My noble Friend proposed the responsibilities of Office, have agreed in that Committee a very ably drawn that some further legislation is necessary Report, to the ability of which all who beyond that which is proposed by my have read it will do full justice. In noble Friend. My noble Friend went that Report he points out with great through the various Bills which have force his objections to any possible been previously proposed—the Bil scheme for the compulsory compensation brought in by my right hon. Friend of tenants for any improvements made (Mr. Chichester Fortescue) then, as not, on their farms. Well, my noble Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland, and al so far induced the Committee to adopt the Bill introduced by Lord Mayo. I his views that, when I proposed the have a right to infer from those Bills omission of the controversial part of and from the Bill proposed by the his Report, I was beaten by a majority Ministry of the noble Lords opposite of 9 to 5. On further consideration, that those who have been responsible however, the Committee adopted a wiser for the government of the country and more prudent course, and deter- late years have been conscious that mined that my noble Friend's Report some further legislation on this subject should not be presented to the House, is requisite than that contemplated by but they should merely recommend the the noble Marquess. They may or mas Bill to the House. Now, I have a right not have been right in that; but I say to assume that the Committee took that that no Government, at the present time, course because they deemed it more in dealing with this question can aford prudent to leave open these questions; to disregard what has been done by and, in fact, they did exactly that which former Governments or the expectations my noble Friend is so exceedingly angry which have been raised by their prewith us for proposing to do. They posals. My noble Friend (Earl Granville thought most probably that this was a justly pointed out that in these various question which could be most satisfac- proposals might probably be found the torily dealt with by the Government. germs of a measure which might be My noble Friend is very angry with my accepted by all parties. Strong objecnoble Friend the Secretary of State for tions might have been taken to some the Colonies because he did not state his parts of the scheme of Lord Derby's objections to the Bill. But how could my Government; at the same time, when noble Friend state his objections when he some discussion occurred regarding that expressly commenced by saying that the Bill, two years ago, I said then, as I ser

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