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On Question, That ("now") stand almost impossible to carry on the busipart of the Motion ? Their Lordships ness of the Committee. Let their Lorddivided : Contents 20; Not-Contents ships only imagine how it would be with 43: Majority 23.

twenty-three Members—who, as he unResolved in the Negative.

derstood, had been selected because, on

this subject, they held twenty-three difCONTENTS.

ferent opinions, or nearly so- if they Hatherley, L. (L. Chan. Oxford, Bp.

were sent upstairs to try to come to some cellor.)

agreement. It was said that there were Churston, L.

seventy-eight clauses in the two Bills Bath, M.

Colchester, L. Salisbury, M. Delamere, L.

which were the same; but, in spite of Hartismere, L.(L. Hen- that identity of clauses, it was quite cerBrownlow, E.


tain there was enough of disputed matCarnarvon, E. Heytesbury, L.

ter in the Bills to last the Committee to Dartmouth, E.

Lyttelton, L. [Teller.]. the end of the Session. Now, he would Nelson, E. [Teller.) Monck, L. (V. Monck.) really appeal to their Lordships, whether Romney, E.

Redesdale, L. Verulam, E.

Saltersford, L.( E. Cour- it would not be giving a fair opportunity town.)

for the display of that difference of opiLondon, Bp.

nion which the noble Marquess on the

other side (the Marquess of Salisbury) NOT.CONTENTS,

said, is so much to be desired, if they Richmond, D.

Belper, L.
Somerset, D. [Teller.] Boyle, L. (E. Cork and

were to send the Bills to a Committee

Orrery.) Exeter, M.

consisting of fifteen members. He begged Lansdowne, M. Calthorpe, L.

to propose that the Committee be reChelmsford, L.

duced to the number of fifteen. Normanby, M. Digby, L.

THE MARQUESS OF BATH said, that Airlie, E. Foley, L.

if the noble Duke would look at the list Cadogan, E.

Hay, L. (E. Kinnouil.) he would find that out of twenty-three Camperdown, E. Houghton, L. De La Warr, E. Hylton, L.

Members six were right rev. Prelates, Ducie, E. Kesteven, L.

five were noble and learned Lords, and Effingham, E. Lawrence, L.

therefore there were only twelve ordiEldon, E.

Lyveden, L. Grey, E. Monson, L.

nary lay Lords. The noble Duke would Lauderdale, E. Overstone, L.

admit that on a Committee of this kind Morley, E.

Ponsonby, L. (E. Bess- there ought to be a full number of right Shaftesbury, E.


rev. Prelates; and it was also necessary Stanhope, E. Portman, L. [Teller.]

to have noble and learned Lords on it, Zetland, E.

Romilly, L.
Sefton, L. (E. Sefton.)

because the Committee would require Gough, V.

Somerhill, L. (M. Clan- their guidance on legal matters. It was Hawarden, V.


so difficult, on account of their other enSidmouth, V. Suffield, L.

gagements, to procure the attendance of Sydney, V. Westbury, L.

every noble and learned Lord, that the

Committee might have to depend on the ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL AND advice and assistance of some one or CLERGY DISCIPLINE AND ECCLE. other of them. If the noble Duke ob

SIASTICAL COURTS BILL. jected to the numbers, he ought to name SELECT COMMITTEE NOMINATION.

those who were to be struck out.

LORD WESTBURY said, that if they Order of the Day for the naming of took five Law Lords for this Committee, the Select Committee on these Bills.

the Court of Appeal would have to be THE DUKE OF SOMERSET took ex- shut up during the time of its sitting. ception to the Select Committee consist- In his opinion, two Law Lords would be ing of so large a number as twenty-three. quite sufficient for the purposes of the Great inconvenience would be felt by Committee. He had sat on several Comtaking the noble and learned Lord on mittees in that House, and he had never the Woolsack and four other noble and seen one in which the business was very learned Lords from the Court of Appeal well done, on which there were more in order to serve on this Committee. than eleven Members. If they limited Anyone who had served on a Committee the number to eleven or twelve, they 'would know that if they were to have so would have a Committee quite large large a number of Members it would be enough to represent the House, as well

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as quite large enough for all purposes of concentration and information.

EARL GRANVILLE felt bound to say that he thought the business would be better done in a small Committee-more especially as a great deal turned on the wording of the clauses; it would only cause confusion to have a large body like twenty-three. At the same time, he did not agree with his noble and learned Friend (Lord Westbury), that he had never seen business very well done in a Committee larger than eleven. He thought twenty-three was a very unusual number; but having looked at the list proposed, he would acknowledge that the names chosen were those of persons who took a great interest in the subject.

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Second Reading-Poor Law (Scotland) Act (1845) Amendment [80]; Endowed Hospitals, &c. (Scotland) [79]; Local Government Supplemental* [90].

Select Committee-Married Women's Property,
[20], nominated.

Committee-Irish Church [27]—r.p.
Committee Report-Newspapers, &c. [66];
Militia [82].

Considered as amended-Court of Common Pleas
(County Palatine of Lancaster) * [26].

THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY said, that, in selecting the Committee, it had been thought advisable to place a certain number of Prelates and a certain number of learned Lords upon it; and to these had been added a number of NAVY-USE OF NORTH COUNTRY COAL. lay Peers. If, however, it was the opinion of their Lordships that the Committee would be better if it consisted of

only fifteen instead of twenty-three, he should not object to the lesser number being agreed to.

THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY said, he was wholly indifferent as to whether the Committee consisted of fifteen or twenty-three Peers.

LORD REDESDALE was anxious to know who was to nominate the fifteen Members?


MR. HUSSEY VIVIAN said, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty, Whether it is a fact that a decision has recently been come to by the Admiralty with reference to the use of North Country Coal on board Her Majesty's ships; and, if so, whether he has any objection to state what that decision is?

MR. CHILDERS: Sir, in 1867, in consequence of a Report from the West. Coast of Africa, in which the capture of a slaver was attributed to the smokeless character of the coal used, an order was given recommending the disuse, for the Naming of the Select Committee put time, of bituminous coal in all sea-going off to Monday next.

The Question "That the Committee do consist of fifteen Members" was then put, and agreed to.

And, on April 26, the Lords following were named of the Committee:

L. Abp. Canterbury.
L. Abp. York.

L. President:

M. Salisbury.
E. Shaftesbury.
E. Portsmouth.
E. Carnarvon.

E. Beauchamp.

V. Halifax.
L. Bp. Oxford.
L. Bp. Ripon.
L. Bp. Gloucester and

L. Portman.
L. Westbury.
L. Cairns.


Message from the Commons that they have

ships. After careful consideration, it has been determined to modify this order; and directions have been given to use mixed coal, consisting of two-thirds Welsh and one-third North Country coal, in Her Majesty's ships, except on the China and African stations. Orders have been given as to modifications in the furnace doors and fire-grates which will be necessary for the use of mixed coal.

agreed to an Address to be presented to Her POOR LAW-METROPOLITAN LUNATIC Majesty, to which they desire the concurrence of their Lordships.


House adjourned at half past Seven
o'clock, till To-morrow, half he wished to ask the President of the
past Ten o'clock. Poor Law Board, Whether his attention


has been called to the statement reported | stand that the statement was made that to have been made by the Chairman of the Government intended to sanction the the Metropolis Asylums Board, when sum of £490,000, but simply that this laying the foundation stone of the Cater- was the estimate of the Metropolitan ham Asylum on the 17th instant, re- Hospital Board. I may state, however, garding the intention of Government to that of this £490,000, £270,000 were sanction the expenditure of £490,000 on sanctioned as far back as June last for five new buildings under the Act of the two lunatic asylums at Caterham 1867; and, whether the cost of the en- and Leytonstone. The remainder would, tertainment provided for 200 guests on therefore, be the estimate for the three that occasion is to be paid for out of the fever hospitals. But the Poor Law Metropolitan Rate, or out of Civil Con- Board has not yet sanctioned the expentingencies, or how otherwise ?

diture; and, as on my suggestion, the MR. GOSCHEN : Sir, I am quite Metropolitan Asylums Board has conready to answer the Question of my hon. sented to limit itself to the erection of Friend. He asks me whether my at- two hospitals intead of three, the estitention has been drawn to the entertain- mate may be reduced by about £60,000. ment at Caterham. My notice was called | I may add that every item of expendito it, probably by the same means by ture will be rigidly scrutinized before it which his attention was drawn to it, is sanctioned by the Poor Law Board. through the newspapers; and I readily admit that the same thought passed RANGOON AND WESTERN CHINA. through my mind, when I read the proceedings, that appears to have passed through his mind-namely, who was to COLONEL GRAY said, he wished to pay for that entertainment? Now, with | ask the Under Secretary of State for regard to the Question which stands on | India, If any, and, if any, what steps the Notice Paper-whether it will be are being taken by Her Majesty's Gopaid for from the metropolitan rates, vernment to promote the communicaor, as he facetiously adds, from the Civil tion between Rangoon and Western Contingencies, the state of the case is China through a portion of the Shan precisely this—that if such a charge States; and if the survey of that route were made and entered, and paid for by is being proceeded with ? the Metropolitan Asylums Board, the Mr. GRANT DUFF, in reply, said, Auditor would probably disallow the that nothing further had been done to whole of that expenditure. I cannot promote communication between Ransay absolutely he would do so; for this goon and Western China through the reason, there lies an appeal to the Poor Shan States since the survey was stopped Law Board from the decision of the near the boundary of our own territory Auditor, and it is not for the Poor Law in 1867, after 245 miles had been traBoard to lay down, in advance, the versed. A considerable distance recourse which

may take in mained to be surveyed, and he hoped disallowing expenditure ; but I am free the Government of India might see its to admit that where any charges con- way to completing the unfinished work. nected with such entertainments have If it did they should be glad; but at been made, the Auditor usually and the same time the Secretary of State universally disallowed the expenditure. for India would not dream of pressing How this particular entertainment is to the continuation of the survey, if the be paid for I do not know. I am told it Government of India was deliberately of is to be paid for by the contractor who opinion that, by continuing that survey, is building the works. He had autho- it might run the risk of being involved rized a certain expenditure, and the com- in alarming political complications or of mittee who conducted the entertainment incurring any very great expense. He will pay any deficiency out of their own considered the whole question of comfunds. I have heard that unofficially. munication between India and Western I only know that the expense will not China—of which this project of a road come out of the metropolitan rates. through the Shan States was merely a With regard to the question of the esti- fragment, and not a very large fragmated outlay for the_lunatic asylums ment—to be one of the very greatest inand fever hospitals, I do not under- terest, though it would be of greater practical importance to the next generation priety of authorizing the Commissioners than to ours; but interesting as it was, for the Reduction of the National Debt and important as it might become, we to advance, with the consent of the Treashould not forget that in the Indo-Chinese sury, to the Church Commissioners of peninsula, as in Abyssinia, we might Ireland, to be appointed under the Irish buy gold too dear. Some Papers which Church Act, such monies as may be rewould shortly be laid on the table quired for the purposes of the Act, and would more fully explain the present to take as securities any portion of the position of this question.

any Auditor

property of the Commissioners that may

be convenient for that purpose. I give IRISH CIIURCH BILL.- QUESTION. Notice that to-morrow I will move a

SIR FREDERICK W. HEYGATE Resolution in Committee to give effect said, he would beg to ask the First Lord to that purpose. of the Treasury, Whether he would object to introduce into the Irish Church Bill REMISSION OF CAPITAL SENTENCESa Clause enabling limited owners of

CASE OF CHARLES WILTSHIRE. of land in Ireland to borrow and the Commissioners for Public Works to lend

QUESTION. sums not exceeding a fixed percentage Sir GEORGE JENKINSON said, he of the value of such land, re-payable would beg to ask the Secretary of State upon the principle of loans for drainage, for the Home Department, Whether it farm buildings, and labourers' houses, is true that a man named Charles for the purpose of assisting in the erec- Wiltshire, sentenced to be hung at tion of churches, chapels, and places of Gloucester, has been reprieved by his worship; and when the promised Clause order; if so, whether he is the same man will be introduced into the Bill to enable who was convicted at the last Assizes at the Commissioners for the Reduction Gloucester, in the present month, of of the National Debt to lend and the violating and murdering a woman, and Temporality Commissioners to borrow who, since his conviction and sentence, the sums required for the purpose of has attempted to murder the warder in the Act ?

charge of him in Gloucester Gaol; if he MR. GLADSTONE: With regard, is the same man, will he state the Sir, to the first Question of the hon. grounds on which he has recommended Baronet my answer would be this—I the reprieve of this man; and, will he do not think that the Irish Church Bill | state the number and names of those would be the most convenient position convicts who, having been sentenced to for a clause of such a nature. It is the be hung for murder, have been reprieved intention of the Government to intro- by him since he came into Office, and the duce a Bill having reference to the sub- dates of such reprieves; and the names ject in general of giving facilities for and number, if any, of those who have borrowing and obtaining sites with a been hung in accordance with the senview to objects such as the hon. Baronet tence passed upon them since he came contemplates, and that Bill, evidently into Office ? would be the place for inserting any MR. BRUCE: Sir, I think I should particular provisions of the nature to carry with me the judgment of the House which the Question of the hon. Baronet if I were to decline to answer the Quesrefers. In a very short time, in fact, astion of the hon. Baronet on the ground soon as we are clear of the Committee that, in a matter involving necessarily on the Irish Church Bill, my right hon. some considerable explanation, the first Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland will portion of this Question should rather be prepared to make known to the House be brought forward on going into Comthe precise provisions of the Bill to mittee of Supply, and the last matter is which I refer, and the hon. Baronet will one as to which information can be obprobably think we had better, perhaps, tained at the Home Office. But I am postpone the subject till then. With quite as ready to give the information as regard to the clause relating to borrow- the hon. Baronet can be to ask for it; ing, the Question is a most seasonable and, if the House will kindly give me one, and my best answer will be that I their indulgence for a few minutes, I will hold in my hand a Notice of a prelimi- endeavour to satisfy them that, during nary Committee to consider the pro. the short time I have been at the Home


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Office I have not exercised the preroga- Johnson, who was sentenced to death tive of mercy entrusted to me unworthily. for murdering a man, by stabbing him, I will, with the permission of the House, at Manchester. That sentence was exeinvert the order of the hon. Baronet's cuted. The next case was that of WilQuestions, and I will state at once the liam Sheward, who has recently been number of persons who have been sen- executed at Norwich for the murder of tenced to capital punishment during the his wife. The last cases were those of time that I have held Office, and what James Macdonald at Chester, whose has been their fate. Excluding cases of sentence has been respited ; and Charles child murder, which, for the last twenty Wiltshire, whose case is the subject of or thirty years, have never been visited this inquiry. It will be seen, therefore, with capital punishment, the number of that of these eleven prisoners, six have capital sentences, passed since the 10th of suffered the capital sentence; two, I beDecember last, has been eleven. Four of lieve, to have been entirely innocent; one these sentences were passed during the is undoubtedly insane, and there remain winter Assizes of 1868. The first pri- theother two-Macdonald and Wiltshire. soners I had to deal with were Robert The prisoner Macdonald has been reSweet and William Bisgrove. Both of spited on the recommendation of the these men were found guilty of murder, Judge, who has authorized me to state and both were sentenced to death, after, that, in his opinion, the case was not one no doubt, a full and fair trial on the in which the capital punishment ought part of the Judge and jury. I reprieved to be enforced—a recommendation which both of these sentences, and ended by I may say is never disregarded. The granting a free pardon to Sweet, and case of Wiltshire was a more difficult commuting the sentence of Bisgrove to one. This man being drunk violated a one of penal servitude for life. That drunken woman. She had been, acdecision of mine has been called a great cording to the evidence, drinking at a miscarriage of justice. I will leave the public-house; had left about ten in the House to judge to what extent it was so. evening ; had fallen down repeatedly It is beyond all question that Robert when helped on her way homewards; Sweet was an innocent man. It is and at last had fallen down in a lane equally beyond all question that the and remained in a state of insensibility. other man, Bisgrove, was insane. Three There, about one o'clock on a very temseparate Reports all establish his in- pestuous night, she was seen by this sanity. The next two cases were those man Wiltshire, and violated. Next of Priscilla Biggadike, who was con- morning, about eight o'clock, she was demned for murdering her husband by found about eighty yards off, under a poisoning him, and who was executed'; hay rick to which she had been conand of Martin Brown, who was convicted veyed, quite dead. The inquiry before of murdering a man, with the intention the jury was what was the cause of of plundering him, by shooting him, death. It was beyond all question that and upon whom also the sentence of the woman had been violated by this death was carried out. In the Lent, man Wiltshire. But it was the opinion Assizes there have been seven capital of the Judge, and it was the opinion of convictions, excluding cases of child the jury, that the death of this woman murder. In the first case, that of John was caused rather by her own intemperDolan, the sentence was executed. In ance, and by exposure to the weather, the second case, that of John M'Cormack, than by the violence of the prisoner. convicted for shooting a man, the sen- | The evidence of the surgeon, who was tence was executed. In the third case, the first person who examined her, and that of Michael Atkins, convicted of the which was endorsed by the next gentlemurder of his wife, the sentence has man also who examined her, was thisbeen respited. The evidence, confirmed .

“I conducted the post mortem examination with by the opinion of the Judge, satisfied

a view to discover the exact cause of death. I me that the man was wrongfully con- used all the means my skill afforded, and, considervicted. The Judge stated that the ing all I saw, I found nothing inconsistent with verdict took him by surprise, and that death, from natural causes—I mean from wet and

cold." he was satisfied that the death of the

aused by accident. The I have received from ten of the jury the next case was that of Michael James following statement of their opinion in

woman was

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