vice, and unable to provide for them- | opinion that merchant seamen had no selves, would be entitled either to the legal claim, and, of course, if they had 18. 6d. a day, or, if they did not choose one, the assertion of it would not require to accept that, to admission to the Hos- the intervention of Parliament; but they pital as an infirmary. There were many had a very high moral claim, in consemen who might have no relations or quence of the enforced exaction of a por. friends, and to whom even a pension of tion of their money for many years, and 18. 6d. a day would be very little real he was glad that the Government recog. benefit. Such men might prefer, if they nized the claim, and he hoped the recog. could, to go into the Hospital. He was nition would be approved by Parliament. glad that the stringency of the conditions In the borough he represented there of admission was to be relaxed, because as were twenty or thirty merchant seamen long as it was insisted upon that a man in the union workhouse, and, no doubt, should serve a certain time before he their condition would be alleviated by could receive a pension--and only pen the proposals of the Bill; and in the sioners could be admitted-many deserv- same borough there were between 300 ing persons would be excluded from the and 400 sailors of the mercantile marine benefits of the Hospital—a result which who had paid the Greenwich sixpence. he did not think was the intention of the In the name of all these men he thanked founders. With regard to the finance the hon. Gentleman and the Government part of the question he should be per- for the recognition of their claims. A matfectly content to leave it in the hands of ter which demanded careful attention was his right hon. Friend the First Lord of whether the vast estates of the Hospital the Admiralty. In giving up any part should be retained or whether they might of the Hospital to the Dreadnought, he not be realized and the money invested, trusted that it would be made an abso- as such realization would still further lute condition that that portion should reduce the cost of managing the estates, again be at the service of the country and thus leave a large sum for distribuif any public emergency should render tion amongst those entitled to its benefits. it necessary that the whole of the MR. CHILDERS, after stating that establishment should be made use of nothing could be more satisfactory than for the Royal Navy. That must be the explanation made by his hon. Friend, an absolute condition. In regard to the replied to questions which had been merchant service, he had always been asked. The payment of 18. 6d. a day of opinion that they had not any legal was considerably more than was given claim to the benefits of the Hospital ; for out-door relief, and was quite suffibut, at the same time, there was a moral cient to keep an old seaman out of the claim, and he was glad that it was to be workhouse. Such seamen, however, recognized by the payment of £4,000 a would have no absolute right to go into year to the Board of Trade, to be applied the Hospital instead of receiving the in pensions to the most deserving old 18. 6d. per day. That would be a matter seamen of the merchant service who in the discretion of the authorities. As had formerly paid the Greenwich six- to the Dreadnought, it was only proposed pence. He quite approved the spirit in to hand over to the Committee the which this free gift was made.

Infirmary, if it were not required for MR.CANDLISH expressed his thanks seamen of the Navy. There was alfor the care and attention bestowed upon ready power to sell the estates, and it the Bill, and for the general principles might be exercised under certain cirupon which it was founded, believing cumstances, but that right would have that it would increase the efficiency of to be exercised with great caution. of the Hospital and utilize its property. There was no more unfortunate financial It was not suprising that the subject measure than the sales of the Greenwich had been taken up by successive Civil Hospital estates by Sir James Graham Lords of the Admiralty, seeing that the in 1831; they involved the Hospital in establishment charges had absorbed so great loss; and its income would have large a proportion of the revenue, and been much larger now if the sales had he thought he saw a guarantee that this never been made. The establishment evil at least would be remedied, in the charges, which had been one-half the proposal to put an end to the est sh- income, were now reduced to one-seventh. ment altogether. He concurred in the Motion agreed to.

MOTION FOR A SELECT COMMITTEE.

а

Bill to make better provision respecting Green- /ration of the Scotch Game Laws which wich Hospital, and the application of the Revenues thereof, ordered to be brought in by Mr. Tre- it was very desirable that the House

were not sufficiently known, and on which VELYAN, Mr. CHILDERS, and Mr. ADAM.

should be better informed, in order that GAME LAWS (SCOTLAND).

a satisfactory conclusion might be arrived at. That information could be obtained

through the investigation of a Select MR. LOCH said, he rose to move for Committee; and, in order to render whata Select Committee to inquire into the ever conclusion the House came to as operation and effect of the Game Laws satisfactory as possible, it ought to have in Scotland. He did so, because this was the fullest information which a Select a subject upon which there existed a Committee could give. He therefore very strong feeling in Scotland, as was hoped the House would be prepared to evinced by the fact that there were three accede to the Motion for the appointGame Bills now before the House. They ment of the Committee. There had been were to have been read a second time on no inquiry into the Scotch Game Laws Wednesday last; but, owing to the long at any period. In 1845 a Committee discussion which took place on the second was appointed, to which the Instruction reading

of the Bill to legalize Marriages was, to inquire generally into the Game with a Deceased Wife's Sister, they were Laws. The Committee sat for two years postponed to the 23rd June, the earliest -the end being that they presented a

, day available. The result of that delay long and elaborate Report; but they did was to make it hopeless to attempt to not inquire into the Scotch Game Laws pass any one of them this Session. Now, for the reason, as they stated, that the this was a subject of very great import- condition of the law in Scotland was so ance to him. He had hoped that some- entirely different from the English law thing might have been done during the on the subject. The law of trespass in present Session to allay the feeling to Scotland was different; the state of sowhich he had alluded, and which could ciety in Scotland in relation to tenants not be much longer disregarded. He and landlords was upon a different footnow, therefore, rose to propose that a ing altogether, in consequence of the Select Committee should be appointed to existence in Scotland of leases. Over a inquire into the subject, with a view to large portion of England the farms were obtain the best information accessible held upon parole agreement, from year upon the question, to guide the House to year; but in Scotland the existence of in legislation upon it next year. He leases was universal, forming, he might desired by his Motion to convince the add, the basis upon which the better inpeople of Scotland that he was actuated telligence, prosperity, and liberal outlay by a most sincere and earnest desire to of the tenants in that country had so obtain for them a remedy for a real and long been established as compared with serious grievance which existed to his the general body of English farmers. knowledge, under the present state of Now, this circumstance, so advantagethings. He was anxious that a Select ous in other respects, exposed the Scotch Committee should be appointed at the tenantry to difficulties peculiar to them. present time, because he thought that the selves, because, when à tenant entered period between this and the close of the upon a lease for nineteen years, which Session might be so occupied in Com- generally contained strict game clauses, mittee as to lay the foundation for legis- he was bound down to a state of things lation next year, in a manner far more over which he had no control whatsatisfactory than if they were to pass ever, and he had no means of protecthis year any of the Bills now before the tion from the game, nor any means House. Now, although there were many of escaping the penalties and conseGentlemen in this House who were quences of his lease ; therefore, the thoroughly acquainted with the state of condition of things in Scotland was esfeeling

prevalent in Scotland, and were, sentially different from anything which therefore, perfectly competent to consider existed in this country. For this reathe question in all its aspects thoroughly son he proposed that the inquiry and well, yet, as far as the general body should be limited to Scotland, and not of the House was concerned, there were be extended to England. An Amendmany points in connection with the ope- ment had been given notice of by an hon. Friend (Mr. Hardcastle) that the the hon. Member for Linlithgowshire inquiry should be extended to Eng- (Mr. M‘Lagan) was referred to a Select land; but to that proposal he thought Committee. His (Lord Elcho's) Bill was there was considerable objection. It taken as the basis on which the Committee would, in the first place, give a magni- went to work, and the result of their opetude to the inquiry which would render rations was the Bill now on the table. The it utterly impossible to bring it to a principle of the Bill as originally brought practical conclusion during the present in was to put the tenant in the best posSession of Parliament, while, by confin- sible position for making a bargain with ing the investigation to Scotland, the his landlord in the matter of gameCommittee would be able to accomplish that is, that when he took his farm he a great deal towards legislation next should be considered as having a primary year. In addition to this he thought it right to the game, which he either rewould be very undesirable to raise ques- tained or gave up when he made his tions in connection with the English covenant with his landlord. Now, the Game Laws, which were not necessary to way that principle was struck out of the decide those matters which were at pre- Bill was curious. The hon. Member sent producing such an unhappy state of for Fife entered into consultation with feeling in Scotland. For his own part him (Lord Elcho) on the subject, and he could not but wonder the landlords of agreeing with the principle, he allowed Scotland did not see the true character his name to be put on the back of the of the position which they occupied. Bill. When the Committee came to There was a social revolution going on this clause, he said, of course, there in many of the counties which was being could be no question about it; but, uncaused mainly by this matter ; and the happily, the Lord Advocate said he had legitimate influence which the landlords an objection to the principle ; had so long exercised was departing upon a division it was struck out by a from them, because they had not yet majority of 1, and amongst the majority shown a desire to meet their tenants against the principle was the hon. Memhalf-way on this subject. Knowing the ber for Fife, who actually voted against tenants in Scotland so well as he did, he what he had previously approved of. said that if there was the least disposi- Wishing that this present Parliament tion to meet them, they would meet their should know exactly what the last Parlandlords fully half-way, and there would liament had done on this subject, he be an end to these difficulties. He did (Lord Elcho) brought in the Bill exactly not intend to go at all into the merits of in the form in which it left the Committhe question, and he contented himself tee; and moreover than thatheprinted the by moving the appointment of a Select clause which was knocked out in ComCommittee.

mittee, and which, as he had said, gare LORD ELCHO said, he agreed with the tenant the primary right to the his hon. Friend most heartily in all he game when he entered upon his lease. had said in reference to the enterprize This he had done to facilitate legislation, and general character of the Scottish and in doing so acted perfectly bona fide. tenantry, and also as to the desirable- He entirely agreed that it was desirable ness of bringing about, if possible, by that this question should be dealt with legislation, a better feeling between land- somehow or other by Parliament; but lords and tenants on the subject of game when those Bills stood for second readthan unhappily existed at the present ing the other day, he felt that there was moment in Scotland.

Now, he had no hope of carrying them through. In himself brought in one of the three Bills his opinion the principle of the Bill of on this subject now before the House, the hon. Gentleman the Member for the and he had honestly promoted the Bill Wick Burghs (Mr. Loch) was so wrong in the form in which he believed in his that he hoped Parliament would not sancconscience it was possible to legislate. tion it. His own impression was that The history of that Bill was somewhat the Government should be invited-nay curious. Practically, it was not the Bill urged—to take up the subject, and deal he brought in two years ago—it was with it, because it was only a strong the Bill of a Select Committee. It would Government which could deal with a be in the recollection of the House that question so difficult as this undoubtedly his Bill, along with that introduced by was. If the House would bear with

about."

him he would read an extract from the MR. CRAUFURD rose to Order. He proceedings of a meeting of the Scottish wished to know whether it was compeChamber of Agriculture in Edinburgh, tent for the noble Lord to quote these at which the tenantry of Scotland spoke opinions about the details of Bills which of these three measures; and in order were at present upon the table of the to show that he was dealing fairly, he House, and which stood for discussion would give first the extracts referring on a future day? to his own Bill. A letter was read from MR. SPEAKER: The Motion before Mr. M.Keig, who said—“I consider the House is for the appointment of a Lord Elcho's Bill a mere mockery.” The Select Committee to inquire into the President said,

whole subject proposed to be dealt with “Lord Elcho's Bill is one which common sense by these Bills, and therefore a general rewill at once dismiss as a sham; an insult to a class ference to those Bills is permissible. But who deserve better things of a nobleman of his it will not be right for the noble Lord Lordship's standing. The Bill is as valueless as

to a remedy as it is deceptive. His Lordship must

into details.

go have a poor idea of our intellects if he thinks we

LORD ELCHO said, he would not go can be caught by such chaff.”

too much into details, but he thought it Mr. Hope, of Fenton Barns, said was only right the House should hear “ After the remarks of the Chairman he the opinions which were expressed at would not throw water on a drowned the meeting in respect to the Bill of the mouse ;” and Mr. Goodlet, of Bolsham, hon. Member for the Wick Burghs. The said—“As to Lord Elcho's Bill, it was main principle of that Bill was to take humbug and a sham, not worth talking hares and rabbits out of the Game List.

He now came to the measure Alluding to the subject, the President proposed by the bon Member opposite said(Mr. M‘Lagan). Now, what was said “ As far as the tenant-farmers were concerned about that Bill ? Mr. Gentle, of Bell, it would give everything many would desire; but Inverness, said

the question was, would the House of Commons

pass it? I am afraid not. Besides, we know it " IIcnceforth and after dropping hares and rab- is a delicate thing to interfere with an agreement bits out of the Game List, the agreement between

or a covenant." proprietors and tenants will be quite superfluous: Mr. Hope, of Fenton Barns, said, Many tenants are as determined game protectors as their proprietors. For my part, I will give “With respect to Mr. Loch's Bill, he held that the public welcome ; only if damage is done it the clauses giving power to the tenant to kill must be paid for."

game on his farm, notwithstanding any agreement Mr. M‘Keig said

in the lease to the contrary, to be an immoral “Mr. Mélagan's Bill is a step in the right di- clause. He did not think it was the duty of the

Legislature to over-ride private bargains in any rection, but it will not remove the tenant-farmer's wny, unless these bargains were for an immoral grievance to any considerable extent.

It cer

purpose. If he promised to preserve hares and tainly would not protect us from determined game rabbits, he would consider himself bound to act preservers, and it is there we require protection. up to that obligation. He did not think the It will not do for a landlord and his tenant to farmers of Scotland were so weak and imbecile agree to destroy crops."

that they required to go hat in hand to the Legis. Mr. Scot-Skirving said,

Jature and ask them to protect them from their “He wished those who were in favour of the own acts." Bill would show him how it would allow hares and Mr. Goodlet saidrabbits to be killed otherwise than by letting

* Supposing the Bill passed, and he made a poachers do it. There was a fallacy about the law of trespass. An action for trespass must be bargain with his landlord to preserve hares and at the instance of the landlord. No occupant of his bargain notwithstanding such an Act.”

rabbits, if he were an honest man, he would keep land could prosecute for trespass. All that he could do would be to prosecute for damages. It MR. SPEAKER: I must remind the the Bill passed, then there must be so stringent noble Lord that he made an engagement a trespass law that it would interfere with the to the House that he would not enter pleasurable rights of the population.”

into the detail of these Bills. Mr. Davie said

LORD ELCHO said, he would pass to Knocking hares and rabbits out of the Game another point. He thought he had Law was all right as far as tenants were concerned; but how tenants could agree to this Bill, which

shown that a very considerable amount knocked hares and rabbits into the hands of the of disagreement existed on the part of poachers, he could not understand. If Mr. Hope tenantry of Scotland on the subject of knew what the difficulties of keeping poachers these three Bills. They objected to the off farms were, with the terrors of the present principle of his (Lord Elcho's) Bill, alGarne Laws, he thought he would not have sup- though it was to give to the tenant the ported Mr, M.Lagan's Bill."

66

primary right to the game. They ob-country either a very stringent Trespass jected to the Bill of the hon. Gentleman Law or a Game Law; and he did not the Member for Linlithgowshire (Mr. think the House would be prepared to M'Lagan), because it would have the do away with all protection to property effect of bringing poachers on the land; of this kind. As regards the landlords and they took exception in the strong themselves, he wished that they could est terms to the Bill of the hon. and bring themselves to look at this question learned Member for the Wick Burghs as one of even-handed justice between (Mr. Loch), because they said it was man and man, as if there were no hus. an unprecedented interference with the ings either behind or before them, and right of private persons with respect to as if the tenant-farmers had no votes at agreements. As one gentleman put it, all. He maintained that all that legisla“he (Lord Elcho) hoped the Legislature tion could do was two things—they could would not in any way sanction such an do what the 1 & 2 Will. IV., c. 38, dił insult to the tenantry of Scotland as to for England, they could transfer the prisuppose that they would enter into an mary right to the game, and to those agreement of this character." This creatures that run upon the soil, from showed the extreme difficulty of the the proprietor to the occupier. Tha: subject-matter of these Bills; and what was the state of the law in England. I he should deem more satisfactory would Scotland it was different. Rabbits, by be to urge upon the Government the the common law of Scotland, were the propriety of their dealing with this property of the occupier, but all other question. The hon. and learned Gentle- description of game were the property man (Mr. Loch) proposed a Committee. of the landlord. Scotland and England No doubt the Committee would take were a united kingdom, and he thought evidence; but it was a question if their they ought to pull together, and that one inquiry could be terminated, or that law should rule these matters throughthey would be enabled to arrive at any out the country. He believed that is satisfactory conclusion this Session. No this matter the principle of the English doubt it would be extremely convenient Law was sound, and that the principle of to the Government to shelve the subject, the Scotch Law was unsound—that it was as it were, by handing it over to a sound that the man who was the occaSelect Committee. But we had a “strong pier of the land, who farmed it, who Government,” and if they were to take grew his crops on it, should have the it in hand they might settle it without right of control over those creatures by any reference at all to a Select Com- whom those crops might be injured. If mittee. With regard to the Game Laws he covenanted, if he received a conin general, it was an open question with sideration to give it up, that was & matsome whether we should have any Game ter between him and his landlord, and Laws or not; but let the House mark the Legislature had done all that the this, that every country in the world Legislature could do when it put him in had Game Laws. The Game Laws of the best possible position to make his America extend to the preservation of bargain with the landlord. It was on small birds, and in France the Game Laws this

broad principle that he had endeawere more stringent than ours. There was voured to deal with the matter by his one law in particular, not passed under Bill. The other point on which he any Imperial regime, but in the time thought Parliament could come to the of the Citizen King in 1844. By it every aid of the farmer was this—Supposing & man must take out what was called a bargain to be made, they ought to see permit de chasse. Without this, he might that it was kept on the part of the land. not shoot at all; with it, he might shoot lord, and provide most summary and anywhere if he had the permission of stringent remedies for redress and comthe person who owns the land. If he pensation. Depend upon it that-look was the owner of land surrounded by a upon this question how they would, say four feet fence, he could make his own what they liked on the hustings, promise Game Laws, and fix when the season one thing or another—when they came was to open or close; in other cases the soberly to discuss the question as bePrefêt decided what should be the close tween landlord and tenant, the whole or open season. With regard to the thing resolved itself into general question—they had in every bargain and compensation.

a

question of

All that