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Depend upon it, whatever might be the perty as something distinct from the grievances under which that country rights of the Church to property. He laboured, and whatever might be the had no hesitation, also, in saying that remedies which they might propose to the Government would recognize such a apply to those evils, their first duty was distinction. to crush out every open defiance of the THE EARL OF LEITRIM suggested law, such as that which they were now that, in every instance where a murder discussing, which could not be justified had been committed and the murderer by any motives, and then to apply those was not brought to justice, the district remedies which they might think fit, and should be made to act the part of a life which prudent and humane legislation assurance company, and should be remight suggest.
quired to put the family of the murdered THE MARQUESS OF WESTMEATH man in a better position than it was said, that, in justice to the small farmers before. In his opinion, if that course and tenants who were accused of con- were taken, these murders and outrages niving at these outrages, it ought to be would be put an end to. As to the term known that they lived under a system of " agrarian murders,” he objected to it terrorism that paralyzed their energies. altogether. They were political, not A reign of terror existed in Ireland; and agrarian, murders. He believed it was the only way to put an end to the pre- the practice of parties in this country to sent outrages in that country was to fight their battles on Irish soil. The make the terror of the law stronger than feeling which existed among all parties the terror created by disaffection. In in Ireland—he said it with deep regret his own long experience of Ireland he was dislike to England, and the conhad frequently been appealed to by his nection between Ireland and America, own tenants to save them from what they which was every day increasing, might called “ those blackguards,” meaning yet give rise to very serious dangers, the Ribbonmen ; and he regretted much The policy which had lately been adopted that a fresh impulse should have been had so completely turned away the minds given to the action of those criminal men of those who formerly looked to Eng. by throwing open the gaols, as had been lish connection as their greatest hope, done by the Chief Secretary for Ireland. that they were becoming careless, even The Government, he maintained, ought with regard to the continuance of the to go on the stool of repentance for the Union with Great Britain. The state of way in which they had acted in that Ireland was such as to demand the most matter, as well as for their conduct in serious consideration. The evil was far doing away with the suspension of the deeper, he feared, than was generally Habeas Corpus Act under the circum- supposed either in that or the other stances in which Ireland was placed. House of Parliament. It was a most He called upon Her Majesty's Govern- dangerous thing to set aside the educated ment to take the most vigorous measures classes of a country, and to suppose that for enforcing the law, and to declare the the whole system of administration was principle of the measure they would in- to be carried on through the police. troduce for the settlement of the land question. EARL GRANVILLE said, he had been
CASHEL ELECTION. asked in a former part of the evening by
a the noble Viscount (Viscount Lifford) | agreed to an Address to be presented to Her
Message from the Commons that they have whether, in any legislation which might Majesty, to which they desire the concurrence of take place on the subject of the tenure their Lordships. of land, the Government would respect of the evidence taken at the trial of the Cashel
Message to the Commons for copy of minutes the rights of property.
He could have
Borough Election Petition (1869). no objection to make such a declaration in the plainest manner, inasmuch as he
House adjourned at a quarter before had already made it on a previous even
Nine o'clock, to Monday ing. Another Question, put to him by
nest, Eleven o'clock. the noble and learned Lord (Lord Cairns), was whether, in dealing with this subject, the Government would consider the right of individuals to pro
ARMY-ORDNANCE SURVEY. HOUSE OF COMMONS,
MR. A. JOHNSTON said, he would Friday, 30th April, 1869. beg to ask the Secretary of State for
War, Whether his attention has been MINUTES.]– Prblic Bills--Committee, Report the Progress of the Ordnance Survey,
drawn to a paragraph in the “Report of - Valuation of Property (Metropolis)* [12-100); Stannaries * [24-101].
lately issued, which paragraph set forth that the Scotch Survey has been “greatly
retarded" by obstacles thrown in the METROPOLIS–PARK LANE IMPROVE
way of Her Majesty's Sappers by the MENTS.-QUESTION.
owners of Deer Forests; and, whether MR. O. B. DENISON said, he wished he will instruct the Officers conducting to ask the First Commissioner of Works, the said Survey to exercise unreservedly What are the rights of the Crown over the powers conferred on them by the that portion of Hyde Park known as Act 4 & 5 Vict., c. 30, s. 2; and, if not, Hamilton Gardens; and whether, now whether he will give orders indefinitely that a portion of the Gardens are to be to postpone the Survey on Estates taken for the widening of the public where obstacles continue to be made in thoroughfare in Park Lane, any objec- its way? tion exists to throwing open the remain
MR. CARDWELL said, in reply, that ing portion to public use?
the powers given to the Ordnance SurMR. LAYARD said, in reply, that yey were very extensive, and they were the rights of the Crown over Hamilton in general conducted with a due regard Gardens were the same as over the rest to the convenience of the proprietors of of Hyde Park. A portion of Hamilton the land. With regard to the particular Gardens was to be taken to make the matter to which the hon. Member alnew access to Piccadilly, if the Metro- luded, he had communicated with Sir politan Board of Works carried out that Henry James, at the head of the Survey scheme. A very small portion would Department, and had received a note have to be given up ; but, under present from that gentleman, in which he said circumstances, it was not desirable to that no one could impute blame to the make any change in regard to throw- proprietors for objecting to the survey ing open the remaining portion to the being conducted on their land at a parpublic.
ticular portion of the year. He hoped, therefore, that means would be found to
conduct the survey with a due regard METROPOLIS-PUBLIC OFFICES, GREAT to the rights and interests of the proGEORGE STREET.-QUESTION.
prietors of the soil. MR. W. H. SMITH said, he wished to ask the First Commissioner of Works, IRELAND--IMPROPRIATE TITHE RENT. If it is the intention of the Government
CHARGE.-QUESTION. to proceed this Session with the Bill for MR. CHARLEY said, he wished to the acquisition of an additional site for know, Whether the Government thought the Public Offices in Great George it proper for the impropriate tithe rentStreet, Delahay Street, and the adjacent charge to continue to exist after the streets ?
tithe rent-charge now in the possession MR. LAYARD, in reply, said the Go- of the Church had been merged in the vernment would proceed with the Bill land ? which
gave them power to take pos- MR. GLADSTONE: The Government session of the land between the India have had no occasion to consider this Office and Great George Street. It was, subject in connection with the Irish however, intended to exclude from the Church Bill. The two questions were Bill certain houses in Great George entirely distinct. The hon. Member Street, Delahay Street, and Duke Street, may, perhaps, see an analogy between which were included in the deposited Church property and private property, plan. He would strike out those houses which we on this side of House do from the Bill in Committee.
not perceive so clearly. On this account the Government have had no occasion to Motion which is necessary in order to take this matter into consideration in
of the House to have connection with the Irish Church Bill. Morning Sittings at such times and
under such circumstances as may seem CORRUPT PRACTICES COMMISSIONS. to be requisite. My object is to have the QUESTION.
power and to be in a condition to ask LORD HENRY THYNNE said, he the House to sit on Tuesdays, and, if wished to ask Mr. Attorney General, necessary, on Fridays, in order to give When it is expected the Commissioners ample time for the discussion of the in the various inquiries into the Corrupt with that Bill, which, as the House
Irish Church Bill, and to make progress Practices in Norwich, Bridgwater, Be- knows, it is desirable to send to the verley, Dublin, Cashel, &c., will commence their labours; and, whether there House of Lords at an early period. I is any reason beyond the personal con- few words on the course of business this
will take this opportunity of saying a venience of the three Commissioners, why the inquiries should not take place ber for Galway (Mr. Gregory) does
evening. I observe that the hon. Memimmediately on the Assent of the Crown being obtained, in order that the Writs not intend to bring forward his Motion. may be issued, or Bills for the disfran
Another hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bentinck) chisement be introduced during the pre- this evening, does not appear in the
who had given notice of a Motion for sent Session ? THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said, the cause of his absence.
House, and I am sure we must all regret in reply, that he had communicated with Member for Salford (Mr. Charley) has
The hon. the Commissioners, and hoped that as inquiries. The assent of both Houses, foot”) which has occurred in Ireland, soon as possible they would begin their given notice of his intention to call at
tention to a case (“Lavelle v. Proud. however, was necessary to the Addres to the Crown, and the concurrence of
and to put certain questions to me. the other House had not been obtained. But I have to say on this subject that When that was done he had no reason General for Ireland is not yet cognizant
my right hon. Friend the Attorney. to doubt that the Commissioners would of the circumstances, and it will not proceed with their inquiry with due despatch.
therefore be in our power to discuss the matter this evening. I now come to
the Notice of the hon. Member for LiPARLIAMENT-BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE-MORNING SITTINGS.
verpool (Mr. Graves), and I am able
to make a statement to him which will RESOLUTIONS.
probably induce him to come to the conLORD CLAUD HAMILTON said, he clusion that it will be well to postpone would beg to ask the First Lord of the any discussion on Irish affairs to-night. Treasury, What arrangement he proposes The intention of the hon. Member is to make to enable Irish Members who perhaps referable to two causes-the have been appointed to serve on Com- answer made by my right hon. Friend mittees to attend the Morning Sittings to the Question put by the noble Lord the on the Irish Church Bill?
Member for North Leicestershire (Lord MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I believe the John Manners) last night in relation to Private Bill Committees meet at eleven certain outrages which have unhappily o'clock. [Several hon. MEMBERS: No, at occurred in Ireland, accompanied with twelve.] Then I should recommend them the destruction of life, under a system to meet at eleven. Of course I am aware of of intimidation. On that subject I have the inconvenience which arises from the to say that the Government are in comMorning Sittings to Gentlemen who are munication with the Lord Lieutenant of engaged on Committees; but I am not Ireland, in order to determine whether aware that it has ever been found prac- it is in their power—and being in their ticable to meet that inconvenience by power, it would be their duty-to proany decision of the House applicable to pose any measures that are likely to any particular set of Members. Such a strengthen the operation of the law for remedy would be, I fear, worse than the repression and prevention of outthe disease.
rage. In the meantime, it would I have now to make the formal quite impossible for the Government to
the discussion of this subject MR. CHARLEY said, he would conuntil we have an opportunity of bring- sent to postpone his Motion till Tuesday ing these communications to a close. next, and he hoped the Attorney General I may add, that the Government will be for Ireland would be prepared by that able to announce its intentions respect day. ing this matter in a few days, and give MR. GLADSTONE said, he could not, the House an opportunity of passing judg- in the absence of his right hon. Friend, ment upon the decision come to. Theother name a day for the bringing forward circumstance which has naturally attrac- of his Question respecting the case of ted the attention and stirred the feeling of "Lavelle v. Proudfoot.” the House is a telegraphic report, which MR. HEADLAM said, the Resoluappeared yesterday, of certain declara- tions of the right hon. Gentleman bore tions purporting to have been made by with peculiar hardship on him. He had the head of the direct municipal body of the first Notice of Motion for Tuesday the second city of Ireland—I mean the next. The subject he proposed to deal Mayor of Cork.
I need scarcely say with was an important one, and he had those expressions at once attracted the been requested by the shipping interest attention of the Government, and the to take it up; but it was quite clear that best means at our command have been if the House sat from two to seven on adopted to arrive at the true state of such a grave and important question as the facts. The meeting at which the the Irish Church, it could not be exexpressions are stated to have been used pected that more than a few Members was not, in the ordinary sense, I believe, would meet again at nine. He had no a public meeting, but was attended by intention to proceed against the wishes a somewhat limited number of persons. of the House; but he thought the GoI am not, however, in a position to say vernment might have made a much at the present time whether the words fairer proposition if they had taken were actually used or not. If these Tuesday altogether to themselves, and words were used — a matter which I have given some future Government hope we shall be able to clear up in a night to independent Members who few days—we shall be in a position wished to bring forward their Motions. immediately to announce our intention MR. NEWDEGATE said, he hoped in regard to the measures we may think the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord fit to adopt in consequence. I hope, of the Treasury would consider the aptherefore, the hon. Gentleman will see peal that had been made to him. He that it will not be in our power to enter (Mr. Newdegate) had served with the into a discussion upon this question un- hon. Member for Cambridge University til we, in conjunction with the Irish Go- on the Committee of Public Business, vernment, have had an opportunity of and he was deeply impressed with the considering the questions he proposes to warnings that were given by Lord bring forward; and that he will, conse- Eversley and the late Sir James Graham, quently, postpone his Motion for to- who were called as witnesses, that the night. The right hon. Gentleman con- one thing which the House ought to cluded by moving that, unless the House avoid was uncertainty as to the business should otherwise order, whenever it it had to consider. Now, these Resolushould meet at two o'clock it would pro- tions did not refer especially to the Irish ceed with the business usually taken at Church Bill or to any particular meafour; that if the business be not sooner sure, but they made on the whole prodisposed of, the House would suspend its ceedings of the House for the appointed sittings at seven o'clock; and at ten min time. He admitted that the change in nutes before seven no opposed business the habits of society and of this House should be proceeded with; and that when might render some change advisable as such business had not been disposed of a permanent arrangement, but let it be at seven o'clock, the House would re- understood that it was permanent; besume its sittings at nine o'clock, when cause then, if the House willed it, Memthe Orders of the Day not disposed of at bers of the House would have the opthe Morning Sitting, and any Motion portunity of suggesting, as was their under discussion at ten minutes to seven duty and privilege, subjects for consideo'clock, should be set down in the Order ration to the Government; which would Book after the other Orders of the Day. not be unless the order of their proceedings was established. He spoke with (if the Question as to the state of Ireland some knowledge on this subject, as he should be postponed for a few days until had at one time been engaged in secur- the Government had turned its attention ing the attendance of one side of the to the subject. Now really, if this was House, and he knew that if there was not the fourth or fifth time the Governno certainty it would be impossible for ment has asked for the postponement Members to do their duty. He must of Questions for the same reason, the say that no sufficient reason had been excuse would not hold good to-night, adduced why the House should hold because the Question proposed by the these exceptional sittings while they had hon. Member for Liverpool (Mr. Graves) not yet arrived at the month of May. is of very great importance. I presume But he would not urge that objection. there can be no doubt as to the accuracy He prayed the House to consider that of the reports of the Mayor of Cork's if they contemplated any alteration in speech in The Times and the Dublin the hour of meeting, of adjournment, or papers; and it can matter very little if of the close of their sittings, it would be the remarks were addressed to a small well to consider the question in the light meeting as the right hon. Gentleman of a permanent arrangement.
has said. MR. BOUVERIE: Sir, I think there MR. GLADSTONE: I did not say should be a distinct understanding that that. the commencement of Morning Sittings Sir ROBERT PEEL: The right hon. much earlier than usual should not be Gentleman said just now that, after all, drawn into a precedent—that the sittings the remarks of the Mayor of Cork were are simply for the purpose of facilitating made to a small meeting-[“No, no!"] the progress of the Irish Church Bill, -to a private meeting then, and not in and that they are not to become the his capacity as Mayor of Cork. Now I rule. Because, if Morning Sittings are say that is of no consequence, and I ask to be commenced in May, very few Mem- whether the Government have or have bers will have an opportunity of bring- not received within the last few hours ing forward their Motions and attending a notification that the remarks of the to the business of their constituents. The Mayor of Cork, as appearing in The Question my right hon. Friend (Mr. Times and Dublin papers, accurately Headlam) had upon the Paper is one convey what he intended to say and did of considerable importance to constitu- say to those whom he addressed, wheencies connected with the shipping in- ther their numbers were few or many? terest, whose business it would be to MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE keep a House, but although it is true said, he had to state in reply to the the representatives of those constitu- right hon. Baronet that the Government encies will be to blame if they do not, were not, at the present time, more fully I think their convenience should be informed upon the subject to which he consulted. But my main point is, that referred than were other hon. Members, it should be clearly understood that their information being derived, in comMorning Sittings before Whitsuntide mon with theirs, from the reports in the are peculiar to this occasion, and for newspapers. The Government had, howthis purpose only.
ever, lost no time, directly the matter ViscounT SANDON, on behalf of came within their cognizance, in calling those who represented large constituen- for accurate information. He wrote yescies, submitted that it was impossible terday to the resident magistrates in for them to attend the debate in the Cork, desiring them to supply him with House during the Morning Sitting, to accurate information upon the subject, attend any Committee they might be and, if necessary, to test the truth of nominated for, and transact the other the newspaper reports, and to supply business a large constituency entailed the Government with an accurate and, if the course proposed for Monday were if possible, an authoritative report of the carried out. He would suggest that the language made use of by the Mayor of sittings of Committees should be sus- Cork upon the occasion in question. pended for the next week.
That information he expected to receive SIR ROBERT PEEL: Sir, the First to-morrow or the following day at the Minister of the Crown has stated that furthest. The following telegram had it would be for the public convenience just been placed in his hands by an hon.