in very moderate weather, was ordered to fire from her bow port, but she shipped such an enormous quantity of water through the port that she could not fire the gun. In the former Report to the Admiralty it was stated that they had rough weather-the very thing they wanted-and the ships rolled so heavily in a very moderate sea that they could not fire the guns. Besides, the ships were so flooded with water that he heard it said that the Admiral had to swim for his life inside his own vessel. The story of the British fleet was lamentable. Why, then, were they going on with experiment after experiment? The noble Earl (the Earl of Camperdown) had stated that two new ships were to be taken in hand before the two on the stocks had been tried, and these new vessels were to be without masts or yards. He (the Earl of Hardwicke) did not think that at all a wise course of proceeding. If we were to have guns of such vast size as twenty-five tons, no doubt they must be carried, not on the broadside, but on a turntable; but the result of all that was being done was an enormous expenditure. And then there was no classification. They had engines of different sizes, but none of the same class. But after all this enormous expenditure, what was looming in the distance? Had any noble Lord read what had occurred in the last American civil war? They fought battles by sea, but the public did not know the number of vessels that had foundered owing to the employment of the torpedo, which had acted with the greatest possible effect. It seemed to him that all our expenditure and all our experiments would lead up to the perfecting of those machines-the torpedoes -and the result would be to make useless and obsolete all the improvements they had made. Would it not, therefore, be wise under these circumstances to suspend operations, and rest a little while to perfect what had been already done? THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN said, the noble Earl who had just sat down (the Earl of Hardwicke) had complained that those two new ships which the Admiralty proposed to build would have a very low freeboard. But did the noble Earl suppose that if they were to have as high a freeboard as could be given to themif they were to have a freeboard 14 feet high-that would make them more dry and comfortable? Then the noble Earl said that they would be a source of great expense, and that we ought to wait until the Captain and Monarch had been tried. The Captain and Monarch were vessels of an entirely different class, and no doubt the vessels would be expensive; but it remained to be proved whether sails would have any effect whatever on a turret-ship. Suppose we did not go to this expenditure, and that we were to remain content with the state of things that existed four or five years ago, if we should get into a war with the United States, and they were to destroy our navy, did not the noble Earl think that great fault would be found with the present Board of Admiralty and with other past Boards because they had neglected to increase our naval strength in the meantime? The noble Earl had alluded to the Bellerophon and said that it had been impossible to fire her guns in a moderate sea. That, he believed, was perfectly true; but then it was only fair to state that the Bellerophon was going at the time with full steam. As for waiting until the Monarch and Captain were tried, that would hardly be advisable, because the new vessels were to be of an entirely different class and had nothing in common with the others, and if we were to wait it would throw our naval operations entirely into arrear. THE DUKE OF SOMERSET inquired whether the Admiralty would lay on the table certain Papers in connection with the subject? There was no necessity for secresy about any of the vessels we were building. The French had observed no secresy with regard to their ships, but had given us all the information which we had asked for. He wished also to ask whether any of the 25-ton guns had been tried with a full charge, for that was a very important consideration before they were to be put on board the turret-ships? THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN said, he did not exactly know whether it would be in his power to make public the Papers to which the noble Duke had referred, but if he could do so he would lay them on the table. As to whether any of the 25-ton guns had been fired with a full charge, he thought that could hardly have been the case, because the turrets had not been made. THE DUKE OF SOMERSET said, the guns would, of course, be tried before they were put into the turrets. THE "TORNADO." PETITION OF CREW. THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE presented Petitions of Andrew Sillars and others of the crew of the Tornado, and of Catherine Macpherson, widow of third mate of the Tornado, for compensation and redress for injuries sustained from the Spanish Government. As their Lordships were well aware these petitioners had undergone a great deal of hardship; their property had been taken away, though they had committed no offence either against municipal or International Law. They had been treated as if they were prisoners of war, and yet they had done nothing which could render them liable to such treatment. It was now three years and a-half since their property was taken, and they had obtained no redress whatever for the injuries they had suffered. It was entirely unprecedented that these people should have their money taken from them, and having suffered such grievances they were surely entitled to know why. It was true that they had been set at liberty upon the remonstrances of our Government some time ago; but their property had not been restored, and no attempt had been made by the Spanish Government to consider their case. The opinion of the lawyers of this country was that they had been treated in a lawless manner. He hoped his noble Friend the Foreign Secretary would give his attention to their case; for, notwithstanding the difficulties which all must acknowledge to have arisen from the change of Government in Spain, it could not be denied that there was no case for further delay. He wished to know what had been done in the matter? THE EARL OF CLARENDON: I am afraid I cannot give a very distinct answer to the Question that has been put by my noble Friend; but all your Lordships must be aware that this unfortunate case has been very protracted, and that, owing partly to the proceedings of the Spanish courts and partly to those of the counsel for the defendants, this case has become one of great intricacy as well as great delay. All the Papers have been laid on the table of the House except a few which I can present next week. Those who study the case will see that my noble Friend the late SecreVOL. CXCV. [THIRD SERIES.] tary for Foreign Affairs did everything he possibly could to protect the right of the prisoners to an impartial tribunal, and Sir John Crampton was particularly instructed to demand the liberation of the crew. There have been two trials; at the first the prisoners were represented; at the second they were not. The Spanish Government has all along considered the men as prisoners of war. Macpherson was actually in the service of the Chilian Government, and was taken prisoner in the ship as it was going into the service of Chili. My noble Friend, after consulting the Law Officers respecting the second trial, felt unable to maintain that there had been any denial of justice; but as there had been a promise to a certain extent that the case should be re-heard, we have sent out to ask for a new trial. have not yet received a definitive answer from the Spanish Government, but we know from Sir John Crampton that the matter has been decided by the Supreme Council in Spain, and is now under the consideration of the Government. I can only say that if there is anything we can do, either in the shape of remonstrance or argument, I shall be most happy to do it; but I am sure the Spanish Government will not take the same view of the matter as that taken by my noble Friend. The Spanish Government regards the vessel as a vessel of war and a good prize, and the men consequently as prisoners of war. It is not therefore probable that Spain will pay the indemnity my noble Friend claims. We THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE said, he did not believe any opinion existed declaring the trial to have been a proper one, nor that Spain would venture to declare, in the face of Europe, that a trial in which persons were examined under torture could be a fair one. Lord Stanley had not admitted that the trial and confiscation were legal, and he hoped the noble Earl had not done so. THE EARL OF CLARENDON said, he had expressed no opinion at all upon any of these points. Petition ordered to be laid upon the Table. IRISH CHURCH BILL-QUESTION. MR. DISRAELI: Sir, I wish to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, To state at once the number and names of the persons proposed to be appointed Commissioners of Church Temporalities in Ireland under Section 3 of the Irish Church Bill? MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I am very sorry that I cannot meet what would appear to be the wish of the right hon. Gentleman-that I should state at once the numbers and names of the persons proposed by the Government as Commissioners under the Irish Church Bill, further than by saying that in an indirect manner a statement is made in the Bill with respect to the number of the Commissioners. The number which we have contemplated-and I hope it will be sufficient for the purposes of the Bill is three. RITUALISTIC PROCESSIONS. QUESTION. MR. STAPLETON said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether his atten tion has been called to a statement in The Times of the 27th instant, that a Ritualistic procession took place on Good Friday in the parish of St. George in the East, in this Metropolis, which started from St. Peter's Church, and went all round the parish through the public streets, headed by the incumbent in a plain cassock, a curate, choristers, and others, making twelve stations by the way, at each of which the incumbent delivered a discourse referring to the ascent of Mount Calvary; and, whether such processions were in accordance with the Law? But I am not able to speak positively even upon the subject of the number, though it would only be with great reluctance if we found it absolutely necessary to take power to exI am not in a contend that number. dition to state the names of the Commis- METROPOLIS-NEW COURTS OF JUSTICE.-QUESTION. MR. W. H. SMITH said, he wished to ask the First Commissioner of Works, If it is the intention of the Government to proceed with the Courts of Justice Concentration (Acquisition of Additional Site) Bill during this Session? MR. BRUCE: Sir, I read the report of this procession in the newspapers, but I have received no account from the Metropolitan Police, nor does it appear that any report of it was sent to the Chief Commissioner. These processions are not in themselves illegal. The law makes no distinction between religious and political processions or assemblages; but, if they are likely to lead to a breach of the peace, there are methods by which MR. LAYARD said, in reply, that it they can be put a stop to or rendered il-was not the intention of the Government legal. An information may be sworn to bring in the Bill at present. He before the justices, and thereupon no- would wait until the Motion of his hon. tice will be given to the parties that Friend the Member for Galway (Mr. such procession or assemblage tends to W. H. Gregory) on this subject was disa breach of the peace, is unlawful, and posed of. must not be held. If no such fears are apprehended, then those persons who are interested in preventing the disturbance of the streets may apply a general remedy which is open to anybody-I mean the general remedy under the Highway Act, by which a penalty of 408. may be imposed on any person who obstructs the free passage of the streets. IRELAND-THE FENIAN PRISONERS. QUESTION. SIR GEORGE JENKINSON said, he wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, As some misapprehension prevails as to the thirty-four Fenian Convicts released or about to be released IRELAND-IRISH FISHERIES COMMIS. in Australia, to state whether those men | Lord Chancellor or the Lord Lieutenant, have yet been released, or whether, in but is ex officio a justice of the peace, as consequence of the conduct of those who the chief executive magistrate of the have been released in Ireland, the re- corporation. lease of those in Australia, or of any of them, will be stopped; and, if not, whether those thirty-four Fenian Convicts, or any of them, are to be brought back to this Country; and, if so, are any of them to be brought back at the public expense; and, if so, how many of them. Has the Report of the Law Officers of the Crown in reference to the proceedings at the meeting held at Cork on the 17th of March, and presided over by the Mayor of that City, been received yet; and, if so, has it been acted upon; and, is the Mayor of Cork still in the commission of the peace? the Chief Secretary for Ireland, WheMR. DODDS said, he wished to ask ther he is aware that two of the Special Commissioners for Irish Fisheries addressed a letter on the 11th April 1868, to the Irish Government, requesting advice and direction on the following point wished the business of the Commission -namely, whether the Government to be carried on on the principle that, in the event of differences of opinion existing between the three Commissioners, the opinion of the majority must govern each official act; and, further, stating that unless that point were authoritatively settled by the Government the transaction of the business must be se MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE: Sir, the greater part of this Question I have already answered twice. I will answer it again as nearly as I can in the words I used before-namely, that Her Majesty's Government have no intention to bring back, at the public expense, the riously impeded; and, whether he is political convicts for whom an order of aware of the reason why the Governrelease has been sent to Australia; but, ment refused to answer and has never at the same time, they think it right to answered the appeal so made to them secure their own liberty of consideration by their officers? He also wished to in any individual case which may, by know when the Copies of Correspondpossibility, come before them hereafter. ence, &c., relating to Fisheries (Ireland), The next part of the Question is "Whe-ordered on the 22nd of March last, will ther, in consequence of the conduct of be in the hands of Members? those who have been released in Ire land, the release of those in Australia, or any of them, will be stopped ?" The release of the convicts in Australia will not be stopped. The seditious language which has been used in Ireland by two or three of the released political prisoners, which has been very generally reprobated in that country, and which has had no effect but that of injuring the unhappy cause on behalf of which it has been used, is not, in the opinion of the Government, any reason for altering the advice given to the Crown as to the amount of clemency which should be extended to the political prisoners. With regard to the last part of the Question, the Government have taken the advice of the Law Officers, and have decided not to take any steps against the Mayor of Cork. They think it would be very unadvisable and injudicious to do so; and I have to remind the hon. Member that the Mayor of Cork is not a justice of the peace under the control and supervision of the MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE replied that the Returns were being prepared with all speed. With regard to the Question why the appeal made by the Fishery Commissioners had never been answered, he would prefer that the of the late Government for information hon. Member should ask some Member on that point. LOCAL TAXATION.-QUESTION. SIR GEORGE JENKINSON said, he wished to ask the President of the Poor Law Board, If he will state when the Returns on the subject of Local Taxation, moved for by Mr. Hunt, will be ready, and will be presented to the House? MR. GOSCHEN replied, that the Returns on the subject of local taxation, moved for by the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hunt) occupied 660 pages. The whole of that portion of the Return which was obtained from the overseers, occupying 600 pages, was in the printer's hands, and was being prepared as rapidly as possible; but, as there ACCIDENTS IN COAL MINES. MR. GREENE said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, When it may be expected the Government Bill for further prevention of Accidents in Coal Mines will be brought before the House? MR. BRUCE said, in reply, that a Bill was in course of preparation for the prevention of accidents in coal mines, and that he hoped to be able to introduce it in about a week's time. IRELAND-MAYOR OF CORK. QUESTION. MR. MAGUIRE said, in reference to some observations made before he entered the House with regard to the Mayor of the city he represented, he wished to ask, Whether that gentleman had not on two occasions-namely, the ball given on St. Patrick's night, and the ball given by the Foresters in Cork -distinctly repudiated the sentiments uttered by certain persons on those occasions? MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE said, he had made it his business to examine the reports in the Cork papers, and could confirm strictly and literally what had been said by his hon. Friend. VALUATION OF PROPERTY BILLS. QUESTION. MR. LIDDELL said, he wished to ask, Whether it is intended to proceed with the Valuation of Property Bills that night? There was a feeling in the metropolis that they were being hurried through the House in an inconvenient manner. the same as the Bill originally introduced by the right hon. Member for Northamptonshire (Mr. Hunt) he should consider it his duty to proceed with the second reading that night, if it could be brought on before eleven o'clock. SCOTLAND-PORTPATRICK HARBOUR. QUESTION. SIR FREDERICK HEYGATE said, he wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade, If it is true that the works of Portpatrick Harbour have lately received serious injury from storms; also, if he can state the probable sum that would be required to put it into repair, and render it a safe Harbour for a Packet Station; and the total amount that has been altogether expended upon the Harbour? MR. BRIGHT in reply, said, it was true that some damage had recently been done to the South pier and jetty in the storms of the past winter. In July last a representation was made by Mr. Coode, civil engineer, that £9,000 would be required to repair the damage caused before that time, and that not less than £21,500 would be required to place the harbour and pier in a condition of permanent safety; and, of course, in addition to the latter amount, a sum would be required to repair the damage caused since the estimate was made, in July last. With respect to the total expenditure on the harbour, the sum down in the books of the Department was not less than £252,112 148. 7d. IRELAND-MAYNOOTH COLLEGE. QUESTION. MR. NEWDEGATE said, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Why Clause 19, of the Act 8 & 9 Vict. c. 25 (the Maynooth Act of 1845), which requires that the Reports of the Visitors of the College of Maynooth shall be annually laid before Parliament, MR. GOSCHEN said, in reply, that has not been regularly complied with; he did not propose to proceed that night what Department of the Government is with the Valuation of Property (Metro-responsible for complying with the Order polis) Bill; but, considering the period of the Session, it could not be said that the Bill had been pressed forward with undue haste. With respect to the other Bill, the Valuation of Property Bill, that measure had been before the House for some time, and as it was generally of this House, dated the 8th of March. last, by presenting the accounts, &c., required by that Order; whether any further Order on the part of the House is necessary to explain the meaning of the words "otherwise maintaining the College of Maynooth," which form part of |