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free House of Commons if views put which he denounced us for opposing. forward by the right hon. Gentleman If the right hon. Gentleman was aware in a rash moment, and supported by the that a Bill of that kind had been introcheers of Gentlemen who, I suppose, duced by my hon. Friend, and had been are to represent the new Members, were passed, no doubt his natural candour of to be adopted as a rule. But let us take mind would have prevented him from a later case than the one to which I have making the statements he has to-night, just alluded. Let us take the case of and the statements which he made in the vote arrived at on the sugar duties, the autumn. With regard to the Charity which disturbed – I will not say en- Commissioners, it is now said that the tirely, but to some extent—the finan- Government have not time to take a cial arrangements of the Government, course which we believe would not have I think in 1844. Why, the Government occasioned them much trouble or occupied did not hesitate then to call on the House them for a very long period. They can to rescind that vote; and though Sir re-construct the whole of our ancient Robert Peel moved the rescision, I be- system of taxes; they can make plans lieve the Minister whose department the which will effect a great change in the vote affected was the right hon. Gentle collection of the taxes of the country; man now at the head of the Govern- and yet they cannot give their attention ment. I may be wrong as to his par- to this particular subject. Sir, I think ticular Office, but this I am sure of the answer of the right hon. Gentleman that the right hon. Gentleman was a to my right hon. Friend has not been Member of that Government, and, of a candid and satisfactory one. A statecourse, gave his consent to the course ment made with the clearness and total abthe Government took on that occasion. sence of acerbity which characterized the Sir, this new dogma that the Govern- statement of my right hon. Friend ought ment are not to take the opinion of the not to be met with a torrent of taunts. House a second time on an issue on That is not the way in which the busiwhich it may once have divided, and on ness of the House can be satisfactorily which a decision may have been come conducted. The right hon. Gentleman to by, perhaps, a majority of 1, is a says that, in consequence of his speeches, dogma which I think this House will my right hon. Friend found it necessary not sanction with its approbation. This, to look to the finances of the country, though an inexperienced House, must and to make certain arrangements to not take a course which was invented secure a reduction of expenditure. I for the occasion by the right hon. dare say the right hon. Gentleman has Gentleman at an election in Lanca- great confidence in the eloquence of his shire, which am willing to forget, speeches

and he has cause for it but which appears to have excited but I can, however, assure the right him to a high degree of that rheto- hon. Gentleman that my right hon. rical spleen of which he is a master. Friend was influenced in the course he Now I do not think the right hon. Gen- took by nothing else than a sense of tleman has been candid in his answer duty. His attention was before that to my right hon. Friend the Member period directed to the state of our finanfor Northamptonshire. The case of the ces by those official and authentic sources Inclosure Commissioners is a very strong of information with which the right hon. one indeed. The right hon. Gentleman Gentleman is perfectly familiar, and does not deny that in his agitating tour which are open every week on his desk of last autumn hè made a distinct charge in Downing Street. I think it must against the late Government that they have been in the month of July, and were sanctioning a profuse and unneces- long before the right hon. Gentleman sary expenditure of public money, and commenced his electioneering campaign, in support of that charge instanced this my right hon. Friend called the Cabinet case of the Inclosure Commissioners. It together, laid before us the condition of is perfectly clear that the right hon. affairs, and made those arrangements Gentleman was unaware at the time that which, though unfortunately the revein the preceding Session of Parliament nue did not rally while we were in Office, a Bill, introduced by my hon. Friend had still the effect of preventing a deficit the Secretary of the Treasury in the late from occurring. I think it right to Government, attained the very results make that statement in support of


the observations of my right hon. Friend, ticular occasion referred to with respect as otherwise a very erroneous impression to a vote by which the House had remight pervade the House in reference fused an item of expenditure was, in my to this matter. I think my right hon. opinion, scarcely decorous and scarcely Friend was perfectly justified in calling constitutional. The right hon. Gentlethe attention of the House to the con- man calls that statement rash and illduct of the Government with reference considered. I call it measured, true, to matters not in reality of great im- and constitutional. portance, but of the merits of which- MR. DISRAELI: I have no desire to they having unnecessarily been made of prolong this controversy. I only rise in great importance—it is desirable that answer to what I look upon as an appeal the House should form a true conception. on the part of the right hon. Gentleman. It is quite clear that when the right hon. The right hon. Gentleman says that the Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) made that statement I was understood to make with rash and reckless accusation against the reference to the vote of the House last late Government with reference to the year upon the question of the Irish Inclosure Commissioners, he was per- Church was that it was in mischievous fectly ignorant of the fact that we our effects equal to a foreign conquest. selves had introduced and passed a Bill Well, I most unrese

eservedly contradict which entirely remedied the real griev- that statement. I did certainly say, or ances complained of.

write, on one occasion—and this will MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I do not rise probably be the origin of the error on for the purpose of continuing the contro- the part of the right hon. Gentlemanversial part of the debate, but merely be- I did certainly say, abstractedly speaking cause I am desirous of making some ex- of England, that I believed that the planation with regard to a statement severance of the Union between Church attributed to me by the right hon. Gen- and State would be an event in its contleman (Mr. Disraeli). The right hon. sequences as deplorable as foreign conGentleman alleges that that statement quest; but how far the right hon. Genwas inaccurate, and therefore it is neces- tleman is justified in regarding that obsary that it should be clearly understood servation, made only in reference to the what that statement was. It was with possible effect of a severance between reference to the vote of last year, and Church and State in England, as a statethe right hon. Gentleman says that I ment having reference to the decision of was inaccurate in saying that he had this House last year upon the question asserted that the declaration of this of the Irish Church, I leave the House House last year with reference to the to decide. Irish Church was calculated to be more MR. DILLWYN said, he believed that destructive than a foreign conquest. hon. Members had met that evening for The right hon. Gentleman, however, the purpose of business. He quite unattributes to me that which I did not derstood the necessity for this Vote on say. What I did say was that I had Account. His object in rising was to understood that the right hon. Gentle- earnestly impress upon the Government man had declared that “the conse- the propriety of presenting these Esti

“ quences " of that declaration by this mates to the House at an earlier period House would be more mischievous than of the Session in future. The House was a foreign conquest. That is what I asked to give a Vote on Account for Estiunderstood the right hon. Gentleman to mates which had not yet been placed in say, and what I believe him to have their hands, and he, therefore, trusted said. I have further to say that I never that they would have an assurance from laid down the doctrine for one moment, the Secretary of the Treasury that these on the contrary, I have always most Estimates would be shortly placed before explicitly guarded myself from being them. understood to lay down the doctrinethat the Government is never justified Vote agreed to. in asking a second time the judgment of this House upon a question. What I

Resolved, That a sum, not exceeding £1,586,800, did say was this—that the manner in be granted to Her Majesty, on account, for or towhich the Government had challenged wards defraying the Charge for the following the decision of the House on the par- Civil Services, to the 31st day of March 1870:

£5,500 4,500


1,000 2,000 1,000 1,000 4,000


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1,000 4,000


500 3,500 16,000

750 4,500

7,000 33,000 11,000 81,000 15,000 2,500 1,000 5,500 35,000




Class I.

Works and Public Buildings, Office of
Great Britain :-


Secret Service .. Royal Palaces


Scotland :Royal Parks

22,000 Exchequer and other Offices Public Buildings

20,000 Fishery Board Furniture of Public Offices

2,000 | General Register Office Westminster Palace, Acquisition of

Lunacy Commission Land

4,000 Poor Law Commission Houses of Parliament::


Ireland :Public Offices Site

8,000 Lord Lieutenant's Ilousehold New Home and Colonial Offices

5,000 Chief Secretary's Office Public Record Repository

5,000 Boundary Survey Chapter House, Westminster

600 Charitable Donations and Bequests Probate Court and Registries

1,500 office Sheriff Court Houses, Scotland

5,000 General Register Office National Gallery Enlargement

9,000 Poor Law Commission University of London Buildings

5,000 | Public Record Office Glasgow University

3,500 | Public Works Office Edinburgh Industrial Museum

1,500 Burlington House


Class III. Post office and Inland Revenue Build. ings


England :Harbours of Refuge

Law Charges

11,000 Portland Harbour

Criminal Prosecutions 1,000

Common Law Courts Metropolitan Fire Brigade

1,500 Rates on Government Property


County Courts

Probate Court Wellington Monument

500 Palmerston Monument


Admiralty Court Registry
Ireland :

Land Registry Office
Public Buildings


Police Courts, London and Sheerness Ulster Canal


Metropolitan Police
Abroad :-

County and Borough Police, Great

Britain Lighthouses Abroad


Government Prisons, England, and Embassy Houses : Paris and Madrid

600 Embassy Houses and Consular Build


County Prisons and Reformatories, ings : Constantinople, China, Japan,

Great Britain and Tehran ..


Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum

Miscellaneous Legal Charges.
Class II.

Scotland :-
England :

Criminal Proceedings ..
House of Lords, Offices

7,500 Courts of Law and Justice House of Commons, Offices

9,000 Register House Departments Treasury and Subordinate Depart

Prisons ments

10,000 Home Office and Subordinate Depart

Ireland :ments

14,000 Law Charges and Criminal Prosecutions Foreign Office ::

11,500 Court of Chancery Colonial Office

6,500 Common Law Courts Privy Council Office and Subordinate

Court of Bankruptcy and Insolvency. Departments

7,000 Landed Estates Court Board of Trade and Subordinate Deo

Probate Court partments

16,500 Admiralty Court Registry Privy Seal Office

500 Registry of Deeds Charity Commission

3,000 Registry of Judgments Civil Service Commission

1,500 Dublin Metropolitan Police Copyhold, Inclosure, and Tithe Com

Constabulary mission

3,500 Government Prisons and Reformatories Copyhold, Inclosure, and Drainage Acts

County Prisons Expenses

2,000 Dundrum Criminal Lunatic Asylum Exchequer and Audit Department 6,000 Four Courts Marshalsea Prison General Register Office

7,000 Miscellaneous Legal Charges . Lunacy Commission


Abroad :Mint

7,500 Convict Establishments in the Colonies National Debt Office

2,500 Patent Office

Class IV.

5,500 Paymaster General's Office


Great Britain :Poor Law Commission

35,000 Public Education Public Record Office

4,000 Science and Art Department Public Works Loan Commission

750 British Museum Registrars of Friendly Societies

400 | National Gallery Stationery Office and Printing

68,500 National Portrait Gallery Woods, Forests, &c., Office of

4,500 Learned Societies VOL. CXCY. (THIRD SERIES.]


47,000 5,500 3,500

12,500 9,000 3,500 4,000

14,500 7,500 5,000 1,500 2,000 2,000

500 2,500

500 16,000 151,000 13,500 1,500

800 400 1,500

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140,000 37,000 19,000 2,500

300 2,000 500

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ances ..

University of London

£1,500 | ment that the Bill would not be brought Universities, &c. in Scotland

3,000 on after eleven o'clock ; and why eleven Board of Manufactures, Scotland

o'clock should be too late on Thursday Ireland : Public Education

62,000 night and half-past eleven o'clock early Commissioners of Education (Endowed enough on Friday night he was at a loss Schools)

100 to imagine. This Bill had been hurried National Gallery

600 through its earlier stages just after the Royal Irish Academy

300 Irish Church debate, when Members Queen's University

500 Queen's Colleges

were leaving town; and the Under Secre

700 Belfast Theological Professors, &c.

400 tary of State for the Home Department

actually attempted to lay down the docClass V.

trine the other evening that Inclosure Diplomatic Services

39,000 Bills ought to pass as a mere matter of Consular Services

43,500 form. He was told at once that any GoColonies, Grants in Aid

11,000 Orange River Territory and St. Helena 500 vernment which attempted to enforce Slave Trade, Commissions for Suppres

such a view would contravene the spirit sion of

1,000 of an Act of Parliament. There was no Tonnage Bounties, &c.

portion, in fact, of the authority of the Emigration

2,000 House which he would not rather deleCoolie Emigration

100 Treasury Chest

6,000 gate to Commissioners than the power of

enclosing land. If a bad law were Class VI.

enacted or an unjust tax imposed, the Superannuation and Retired Allow

law could be altered or the tax repealed;

48,500 Merchant Seamen's Fund Pensions,

but if the labouring poor suffered an in&o.

8,000 justice by the enclosure of land, the evil Relief of Distressed British Seamen 7,600 continued and the question passed at Non-Conforming Clergy, Ireland

7,000 once and for ever out of the hands of Hospitals and Infrmaries, Ireland 3,000 Parliament. Inclosure Bills were based Miscellaneous Charitable Allowances, do. Great Britain

1,000 upon an Act, passed in 1845, and the Miscellaneous Charitable Allowances,

distinguished statesman who was mainly &o. Ireland

1,000 instrumental in passing that measure Class VI).

laid it down again and again that a Temporary Commissions


special object of that Act was to insure Local Dues on Shipping

7,500 to the House the opportunity of fully Malta and Alexandria Telegraph, &c. 200 and adequately discussing year by year Flax Cultivation, Ireland

800 the Inclosure Bills that were brought in. Miscellaneous Expenses

6,000 In that opinion Mr. Buller was supportTotal

ed by the late Duke of Newcastle, who £1,586,800

said, that, without making any accusation

against Select Committees, he had come House resumed.

to the conclusion that, in nineteen cases Resolution to be reported upon Monday out of twenty, the interests of the

poor had next;

been systematically neglected by those Committee to sit again upon Monday Committees, it being absolutely impossinext.

ble for the poor to appear before them personally or by counsel. The Act of

1845 was based upon the Report of a INCLOSURE OF LANDS BILL-(BILL 31.] Select Committee appointed in 1843, of (Mr. Knatchbull-Hugessen, Mr. Secretary Bruce.) / whose recommendations one of the most THIRD READING.

important was that, in every enclosure Order for Third Reading read.

where it was possible some land should Motion made, and Question proposed; labouring poor, that this land should be

be retained by way of allotments for the “That the Bill be now read the third let to the poor at a fair agricultural rent,

and that the proceeds be handed over MR. FAWCETT said, it was not his to the parochial authorities towards payfault that he was obliged to bring on a ment of the rates. The Committee discussion on this subject at so late an justly concluded that if this were carried hour. On the previous night an under- out a great boor would be conferred taking had been given by the Govern- upon the poor, and a great relief afford



ed to the local rates. Since that time One great lesson these facts ought to 320,000 acres of land have been en- teach the House of Commons, and that closed; and what has been the result as was to scrutinize narrowly every fresh regards the labouring poor? Why, that proposal for enclosure as it came before their interests have been systematically them. He based his opinions on the neglected; the whole amount of land re- doctrines laid down in 1845 by Sir covered has been 2,000 acres. But this Robert Peel, who said that the House Bill is even worse than its predecessors. ought to look after the rights of the laExcluding Wisley, as had been done, bouring poor and their successors. That the Bill proposed to enclose 7,000 acres, eminent statesman remarked that, aland the quantity reserved out of this though a man might receive a pound or large tract has been the insignificant, two by way of compensation for the contemptible amount of four acres. The abolition of his right to turn a horse or House ought not to pass the Bill until a cow on to a common, yet the money they obtained further information re- would be spent in a few weeks, and nogarding it. He made no accusation thing would be left for the poor

man's against the Inclosure Commissioners, but successors. He (Mr. Fawcett) was dethe reasons given in support of these en- termined that in future these Inclosure closures in their Report ought to be much Bills should not pass unchallenged. This more explicit. Of the fourteen enclosures was a matter which did not affect the proposed to be sanctioned this year, it agricultural labourers only, for the Comwas stated in one case as the reason why missioners themselves said that, with reno land was reserved that it was "too gard to allotments, the working men in steep," but a little further on, as a rea- large towns were, perhaps, even more son why it should be enclosed, it was deeply interested than the labourers in said to be admirably adapted for agri- country districts. Allotments placed withcultural purposes. If it was too steep in the reach of the artizan many luxuries to be cultivated by the spade husbandry and comforts, besides giving him healthy of the poor, how was it at the same time recreation, which would benefit him fitted for the plough? As to another physically and morally. The agriculcommon, the reason assigned for not pre- tural labourers had no direct representaserving any portion was that it was over- tives in that House--he wished they had stocked. What did that mean, except —but that was the very reason why their that the demand for common land among interests should be earnestly and closely the poor was such that they put too watched over. He was most anxious many animals to graze upon it? In an- that those agricultural labourers who other case the common was said to be too possessed rights in the soil should no far off, lying about two miles from the longer have those rights ignored and village. But why did not the Com- neglected without a protest being made missioners exercise the power of ex- in the House of Commons, and he therechange, which they possessed, securing fore moved that the Bill be re-committed. for the poor by this means a slice of land near the village ? The Report of the

Amendment proposed, Commission of Inquiry into the condition

To leave out from the words “ Bill be " to the of Women and Children employed in end of the Question, in order to add the words Agriculture described the state of our Inclosures somo land may be reserved as allot

re-committed, in order that from the proposed labouring rural population as most un- ments for the labouring poor, in accordance with satisfactory, and not so comfortable in the provision of the Act 8 and 9 Vio. c. 118, many respects as it was four centuries sections 30 to 34,”—Mr. Fawcett,) ago. Between 1760 and 1845 no less -instead thereof. than 7,000,000 acres of land were en

Question proposed, “That the words closed, and the Commissioners stated that in the great majority of instances proposed to be left out stand part of the

Question." the interests of the labouring_poor had been completely neglected. Had these MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN enclosures been made with proper care would readily admit that the object of for the interests of the people, he be- the hon. Member for Brighton was most lieved it would have made the present excellent, but thought the hon. Gentlecondition of our labouring population man had promoted it in such a manner, very different from what it was now. and at such a time, that the result would

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