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this that during the period which it assumed an external character of suselapses from the time when resignation picion, I think my hon. Friend will feel is tendered to a time when a successor we ought not to visit upon the right comes into power there is no change in hon. Gentleman, by dividing this House, the position of the outgoing Minister. the consequences of an act, the whole That doctrine, in my opinion, is just as value of which he might have reaped at far from the truth as the unlimited pro- a former period if he had chosen. That, position on the other side that there I think, is very nearly the whole case was no capacity at all remaining in an as respects the conduct of the late Gooutgoing Minister to transact Public vernment, and if that be so, then I Business. The truth, in fact, lies be- think my hon. Friend will be of opinion tweent he two statements. Much Public -I confess it is the conclusion at which Business must be transacted by the out- \ I have myself arrived—that there is no going Minister or the public interests case which would warrant us in passing would suffer; but we all know that it this Motion which would appear to is a familiar practice of outgoing Minis- imply a censure on the late Government. ters to leave behind them a memorandum At the same time I am quite sure my on this subject or on that, and stating hon. Friend and the House and the that, on account of the position of the public will derive advantage from this Government, they think it expedient to discussion in respect of his having drawn take no step in the matter, but they attention to this important question with leave it to be dealt with by their suc- regard to a quasi hereditary succession

There is an intermediate region to a Lord Lieutenancy, and the exof cases, with respect to which it is in pression of opinion which has been the option of an outgoing Minister to generally given, and by no one more act, and that is in regard to filling up emphatically than by the right hon. vacancies in offices. This is a matter Gentleman himself, that that quasi heredifficult for the House of Commons to ditary succession is a thing which is dedeal with. It must be left to the con- cidedly not desirable or expedient for victions and feelings of the Gentleman the public interests. I hope, under the in power, and if there had been in the circumstances, my hon. Friend will be proceedings of the right hon. Gentleman inclined to withdraw his Motion. any matter of a flagrant character, that MR. C. HOWARD fully admitted that circumstance would have justified Par- the late Lord Lieutenant had made the liamentary interference. I am, how- Liberal appointments which had been ever, bound to say that, whatever ap- referred to; but, with the known politics pearance of anything of that kind there of the family, every inclination was may have been has been, removed by shown on the part of those who wished his explanation. No doubt, so far as to obtain seats on the bench to consult I understand the matter, the compliment the family interests. He confessed he paid by Lord Lonsdale to the party on should like to take the sense of the House this side of the House is not a marked upon this Motion, but with the Leaders

But as regards the right hon. on both sides urging him to withdraw, Gentleman, if I understand him rightly, it would be hopeless. He, therefore, I think he goes far to show that there withdrew his Motion. was no stretch of power in the step which he took on this occasion, because

Motion, by leave, withdrawn. it appears that the resignation of Lord Lonsdale had been tendered to him at

COUNTY CORONERS BILL. a very early period—I think I understood him to say immediately, or almost MR. GOLDNEY moved for leave to immediately, upon his assumption of bring in a Bill to amend the Law reOffice--that substantially Lord Lonsdale lating to the office and appointment of was content to leave his resignation in County Coroners and for other purposes. the hands of the right hon. Gentleman, The hon. Gentleman explained that he to be acted upon when the right hon. desired to have the appointment of these Gentleman thought necessary or proper. officials placed in the hands of either the If that be so, and if the right hon. Gen- Lord Chancellor or the Home Secretary, tleman is the sole cause why the resigna- instead of continuing the present untion was delayed until the moment when satisfactory state of things.




MR. CUBITT suggested that this merchants might enter the markets on might well form the subject of exami- equal terms with other purchasers. The nation before a Select Committee. House accordingly resolved that the col

MR. BRUCE said, he had no objection lection and early publication of agriculto the introduction of the Bill, because tural statistics would be advantageous to he admitted the subject deserved con- the public interest. These statistics had sideration, and required legislation. It failed in their object because the area could not be denied that the present was but an imperfect measure of what mode of election was cumbrous, expen- the fields would yield to the granary: sive, and altogether unsuited to the “ Man proposes, but God disposes. character of the office. He would not These statistics had now been collected say that it did not secure proper persons three years, and if they were of any value for the office, but it did so at a cost often they would be used in the offices of the most ruinous to themselves. With re- large dealers of corn. He had made inspect to the details of the Bill, he could quiries on this subject of two of the not pledge himself, though he felt much largest dealers in home produce in and inclined to concur with the hon. Member near Mark Lane. One had never heard of who had said that the appointment them, and the other had heard of them, should be anywhere else than with the but had never made any use of them as Crown.

guide to the purchase of grain. In the Motion agreed to.

country he was told by a firm who at

tended seventeen markets that they never Bill to amend the Law relating to the office made use of them, and this was also the and appointment of County Coroners ; and for other purposes relating thereto, ordered to be

case at Birmingham. The House would, brought in by Mr. GOLDNEY, Mr. Thomas CHAM- perhaps, like to know the cost of these BERS, and Mr. PEASE.

statistics, which supplied no basis forguidBill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 75.] ing the trade. In 1866 the statistics for

Great Britain cost £21,388, in addition

to a few hundred pounds for circulars. AGRICULTURAL RETURNS.

The Government of the day divided RESOLUTION.

them into two portions—one for live MR. PELL rose to call attention to the stock, and the other for acreage of crops. annual collection of Agricultural Returns In 1867 the two Returns were taken toand to move a Resolution on the subject. gether, and the cost was only £13,378.

MR. BRIGHT hoped the hon. Gentle- In 1868 it was £14,646. In this year's man would not go on with his Motion, Estimates it was proposed to take £16,500 which could not be properly discussed for Great Britain, which, added to £3,220 after twelve o'clock. The question for Ireland, would make nearly £20,000. whether agricultural statistics should He would observe, by the way, that uncontinue to be obtained and in what way til this year an annual Vote for £10,000 might depend on the discussion, and he only had been taken, and in the intrihoped another Notice would be given for cacies of national account keeping the it.

extra cost was lost sight of by the public. MR. PELL desired to know whether If these statistics were of no speculative the Government would grant him a night value, they might at all events be made on which to discuss this subject ? of some value as a record of facts and a

MR. BRIGHT said he could not pro- guage of the productive power of the mise a night, but he thought there would kingdom. There was no disinclination be no difficulty in bringing the subject on the part of the agricultural class to on at no very distant Friday night. have accurate agricultural Returns; but

ME. PELL said, he felt it his duty, the Returns for Great Britain were under the prospect held out to him, to faulty, because they left out all wood, proceed at once. The agricultural sta- waste land, and garden ground, all which tistics obtained annually were very im- were included in the Irish Returns, and perfect, and one reason of this was that were necessary if the Returns were to be the returns were of a speculative cha- perfect. It would be sufficient, in his racter. It was stated by Mr. Caird that opinion, to have a Return every fifth it would be of the greatest advantage to year, because there was very little variaknow what changes in the growth of tion in the average of years in the quancorn were going on, so that our corn tity laid down in different crops, and it



would be easy to arrive by approxima- ter provision for Endowed Hospitals and tion at the acreage of a particular crop Endowed Educational Institutions in during the intervening four years. With Scotland, said, the funds of these insti57,000,000 acres under tillage in Great tutions were to a large extent applied in Britain, we obtained a Return from only modes not adapted to the altered circum30,000,000, leaving 27,000,000 unac- stances of the country; and he, therecounted for; whereas, out of 20,000,000 fore, proposed by this Bill that trustees acres cultivated in Ireland, 15,000,000 and managers should be allowed to apply sent Returns, leaving only 5,000,000 un- to the Home Secretary for provisional accounted for. There had been a regular orders to revise their rules. The Home decline in the quantity of land sown Secretary would refer to certain persons, with corn there ; and yet a statistician and on their report might sanction the might easily compute the acreage in any order. given year from the data supplied. So SIR JAMES ELPHINSTONE exof green crops, land in fallow, and land pressed his approval of the object of the sown with clover and seeds. The varia- Bill. tion had been regular, and had not been

Motion agreed to. subject to violent changes. It might fairly be expected, therefore, that if a Bill to make better provision for Endowed Hosquinquennial return of fact were made, Scotland, ordered to be brought in by The LORD

pitals and Endowed Educational Institutions in the acreage during the four intervening Advocate, Mr. Secretary Bruce, and Mr. Adam. years might be arrived at very correctly by estimate, and much more cheaply POOR LAW (SCOTLAND) ACT (1845) than at present. The hostility of the AMENDMENT BILL.-LEAVE. larger occupiers to agricultural statistics THE LORD ADVOCATE, in moving had been not so much to the returns of for leave to introduce a Bill to repeal the fact, but arose from the notion that the thirty-seventh section of the statute eight Returns were ordered by Parliament as and nine Victoria, chapter eighty-three, some guide to the purchasers of corn and to make further provision for imduring the autumn. They knew that posing Assessments under the said Act

, this was fallacious, and there was con- said, its object was to place assessments sequently a disinclination to give infor- to the poor rate on the same footing as mation which they knew would be of no that on which all other assessments stood He moved that the Agricultural

that was, upon the gross, and not upon Returns now made annually should after the net rental. this year be discontinued and collected every fifth year, in the place of an

Motion agreed to. nually.

Bill to repeal the thirty-seventh section of the COLONEL BRISE, believing that the statute eight and nine Victoria, chapter eighty

three, and to make further provision for imposing present Returns were worthless, because

Assessments under the said Act, ordered to be incorrect, had great pleasure in second brought in by The Lord Advocate, Mr. Secretary ing the Motion.

Bruce, and Mr. ADAM. Motion made, and Question proposed,

PARK LANE AND PICCADILLY " That the Agricultural Returns, now made annually, should, after this year, be discontinued,

THOROUGHFARE. and collected every fifth year in the place of

PAPERS. annually."-(Mr. Pell.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, Mr. M‘LAGAN said, considering the

“ That there be laid before this House, a Copy late hour, and the number of Members of all Correspondence which has passed since the who desired to speak on the subject, he month of February 1865, inclusive, between the felt that the best course he could take Lords of the Treasury, the First Commissioner was to move that the debate be ad. of Works, the Commissioners of Woods and journed.

Forests, and the Metropolitan Board of Works,

on the subject of any proposed thoroughfare beMotion agreed to.

tween Park Lane and Piccadilly (in continuation Debate adjourned till Friday.

of Parliamentary Paper, No. 132, of Session

1865)."-(Mr. Loch.) ENDOWED HOSPITALS, &c. (SCOTLAND) MR. AYRTON objected to the proBILL.-LEAVE.

duction of confidential communications THE LORD ADVOCATE, in moving between the Treasury and the subordi. for leave to bring in a Bill to make bet- nate departments, and therefore he could




laid upon



757 Adulteration of Food or Drink {APRIL 13, 1869) Act (1860) Amendment Bill. 758 not assent to the Motion in the terms in printed and published. The latter clause which it was proposed; but if it were appeared to him calculated to limit the withdrawn he would have the correspond- right of public speech and of freedom ence examined with a view to the pro- of discussion, and therefore he was glad duction of all that could properly be laid to state that the hon. Member had acon the table.

ceded to his desire that it should be MR. CRAUFURD said, it was un- omitted. He had further to suggest the usual to refuse Returns which were insertion of the following words in the merely “in continuation ” of Returns first clause, after the words bona fide, already made.

“having reasonable respect to private MR. GLADSTONE undertook that, character and to the preservation of if the hon. Member would withdraw his decency.” Motion, all necessary Papers should be MR. CRAUFURD could not approve the table.

the Bill, notwithstanding the alterations Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

suggested by the right hon. Gentleman.

He thought the matter should have been LIBEL BILL.—(BILL 17.]

left in the hands of the Government to

deal with. (Mr Baines, Mr. Candlish, Mr. Morley.)

Mr. BAINES assented to the AmendSECOND READING.

ment proposed by the Chancellor of the Order read, for resuming Adjourned Exchequer. Debate on Amendment proposed to

Question put, and agreed to. Question [17th March], " That the Bill be now read a second time;" and which

Main Question put, and agreed to. Amendment was, to leave out the word

Bill read a second time, and committed “now," and at the end of the Question for To-morrow. to add the words "

upon this day six months."-(Mr. Newdegate.)

Question again proposed, “That the METROPOLITAN COMMONS ACT (1866) word 'now' stand part of the Ques


On Motion of Mr. Thomas CHAMBERS, Bill to

amend “ The Metropolitan Commons Act, 1866," Debate resumed.

ordered to be brought in by Mr. Thomas ChamMR. BAINES said, the Mover and BERS and Mr. Locke. Seconder of the Amendment had inti

Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 77.] mated to him their intention not to persevere with the Amendment. He there- OYSTER AND MUSSEL FISHERIES SUPPLEfore begged now simply to move that the Bill be read a second time.

On Motion of Mr. LEFEVRE, Bill to confirm THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- certain Orders made by the Board of Trade under QUER said, he had no objection to the The Sea Fisheries Act, 1868,” relating to Doni. second reading of the Bill which pro

bristle (Firth of Forth), and the Holy Loch (Firth posed to amend the Law of Libel. The of Clyde), ordered to be brought in by Mr.

LEFEVRE and Mr. JOHN BRIGHT. first clause of the Bill proposed to exempt Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 76.] newspapers from penalties under the existing Law of Libel on proof that the

ADULTERATION OF FOOD OR DRINK ACT alleged libel was a true and fair report of the proceedings at a meeting lawfully

(1860) AMENDMENT BILL. assembled for a lawful purpose, open


On Motion of Mr. Dixon, Bill to amend “The

Adulteration of Food or Drink Act, 1860," and reporters for the public newspapers, and

to extend its provisions to Drugs, ordered to be at which a reporter was present for the brought in by Mr. Dixon, Mr. Kinnaind, and purpose of reporting the proceedings of Mr. GOLDNEY. such meeting for a public newspaper,

Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 78.] and that the report was published in such newspaper by the defendant bona

House adjourned at a quarter before

One o'clock. fide without actual malice, and in the ordinary course of business. The third clause proposed that the speaker of defamatory atter should in certain cases be liable to be sued as if the same were




notice that he would return to Tyne. HOUSE OF COMMONS,

mouth, and the Mayor, under these cirWednesday, 14th April, 1869. cumstances, applied to me to know what

steps should be taken to prevent the MINUTES.) — Public Bills – OrderedFirst repetition of these dangerous meetings.

Reading-Hospitals, &c. Rating Exemption That being so, I did not hesitate to put [81].

in force an Act which I quite admit is First Reading-Endowed Hospitals, &c. (Scotland)* [79]; Poor Law (Scotland) Act (1845) The case here was one which, in my

one only to be used in extreme cases. Amendment * [80]. Second Reading-Referred to Select Committee, opinion, justified its application. Here Married Women's Property [20].

is a man who, for no good purpose whatCommittee-Sunday Trading [5].

ever, goes about exciting the peaceful

inhabitants of towns in such a way as to MR. MURPHY'S LECTURES.

lead to acts of violence, creating dissenQUESTION.

sion and disorder wherever he appears ; MR. SINCLAIR AYTOUN said, he and, as long as there are means of rewould beg to ask the Secretary of State pression known to the law, I think it is for the Home Department, whether he the duty of those charged with the preis aware that a proclamation has been servation of the peace to use them. It issued by Mr. Edward Sholton, Mayor was, therefore, under my direction and of the Borough of Tynemouth, giving on my responsibility that the Mayor of notice that any persons attending the Tynemouth made known that all persons lectures to be delivered by Mr. Murphy attending these lectures would be liable at North Shields, on the 5th, 6th, and 7th to a penalty. instant, and who shall pay money for admission to the place where such lec- MARRIED WOMEN'S PROPERTY BILL. tures are to be delivered, are liable to a (Mr. Russell Gurney, Mr. Beadlam, Mr. Jacob penalty of £20 under the provisions of

Bright.) Act 39 Geo. III., c. 79, s. 15; and, whe

(BILL 20.] SECOND READING. ther, in his opinion, the Mayor of Tynemouth has, by issuing such a proclama

Order for Second Reading read. tion, exceeded his authority ?

MR. RUSSELL GURNEY, in rising MR. BRUCE: Sir, I am aware that to move that the Bill be now read a such a proclamation has been issued by second time, said, he regretted that the the Mayor of Tynemouth, and I hope measure was not still in the hands of the that in so doing he has not exceeded his hon. Member for Reading (Mr. Shaw authority, inasmuch as he acted under Lefevre), to whom, for his advocacy of my authority and by my directions. The a similar measure last Session, all inAct in question was passed in 1799, and terested in this subject must be under was an Act of extreme severity. It en- the highest obligation. The hon. Gentleabled any informer to cause persons to man felt, however, that his official duties be summoned for delivering lectures in would prevent him from taking charge places not duly licensed, and, in that of the Bill, and at his request he (Mr. case, the lecturer and owner of the room Russell Gurney) had undertaken his were liable to a penalty of £100 each, duty. The Petitions which had just been and persons attending the lecture were presented in favour of the Bill showed liable to a penalty of £20 each. By the not only a great but a growing interest 9 & 10 Vict. this Act was amended, and in the question, and at this he was not the power of taking such proceedings surprised when he considered the nature was limited to the Law Officers of the of the Bill, and the extent of the inCrown. Now, it happened that Mr. justice which it was designed to remedy. Murphy had lately been delivering one It was now proposed that, for the first of his inflammatory lectures at Tyne-time in our history, the property of mouth, and the result was much violence one-half of the married people of this and some bloodshed. He proceeded to country should receive the protection of some other towns in the North where the law. Up to this time the property the good sense of the inhabitants pre- of a wife had had no protection from vented his being accommodated with a the law, or rather, he should say, in the room in which to deliver his lectures. eye of the law it had no existence. From Finding that to be the case, he gave the moment of her marriage the wife,

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