thinks of nothing but his business and of bringing it to the highest degree of perfection. He has no interests outside his factory. In England, on the contrary, the manufacturer is apt to look on his work differently. As a rule he takes very little interest in what is going on, does not identify himself with the working people at all and is looking forward to the time when he shall retire from business and have nothing more to do with commerce or manufacture. In New England the working mechanic takes great pride in learning his profession thoroughly. He talks shop in season and out of season and has an extensive and well selected kit of tools. The British mechanic looks upon his trade only as a badge his trade only as a badge of servitude; he never thinks of his business when he is not obliged to and as far as his tools are concerned he is often content with a centre punch and a hammer."

"Still," I interposed, "I have noticed that when the British workman goes to the United States he soon takes a position second to none."

"The American workman wishes to get on, he wishes to rise to the top of the ladder, he is jealous of other workmen, he does not like the idea of being beaten at his own trade. The result is that he accomplishes a great deal more work in a day than any other workman in the world. The English workingman on the other hand is controlled by trade unions. He can receive only a certain wage. He has no ambition to purchase a house, he cares nothing for books or carpets, and spends a great part of his earnings in beer, tobacco and betting on horses. Still I fully agree with you that when the same man emigrates to the United States he soon adopts American ideas, becomes ambitious, temperate, and is able in a short time to do quite as much work as his American brethren."

Sir Hiram was asked concerning his experience with British trade unions.

"The British manufacturer," he said, "has a far greater difficulty to contend with than that of tools. A very clever Scotchman, who was once manager of our works, said the greatest obstacle he had to contend with was 'organized idleness,' while the present manager of our gun works, although an engineer of the very highest order, confesses that his duties are rather those of a detective than of an engineer. Trade unionism has reached a development in England unknown in any

other part of the world, and perhaps the most malignant type is that found among the metal workers. The union known as the Amalgamated Society of Engineers not only attempts to prevent what they are pleased to call unskilled mechanics from working machines at all, but if their own men are themselves employed on machines, they resort to every trick and expedient to limit the output. In many cases a lathe may run a whole day without ever taking a cut at all. They oppose the introduction of new systems or new tools. In fact all their influence is directed against rapid and cheap production. A large English manufacturer said to me recently that there are more than a hundred different ways in which an employee can cheat his employer.

"The fact is that the interference of the trade union is so vexatious and arbitrary that English employers feel disposed to make almost any sacrifice to get rid of it, and it appears to me that the only hope lies in the direction of the Federation of the Employers, a society formed in England some years ago. If the employers can be made to understand that the principal obstacle which prevents England from competing with the other nations of the world in the manufacture of metal articles is trade unionism, and that the only practical way of combatting it is by counter combination on their own part, then the time cannot be far distant when the trade unions will be robbed of their power to do harm, and once more it may become a pleasure to do business in England.

"A great deal has been said about the necessity of harmony between the employers and the employed. There is no question but that this harmony exists in a great many of the American shops. In Germany also there seems to be a complete understanding between the master and the men in regard to cheap and rapid production. The German workman understands that he has the whole world to compete with, and he is willing to meet the master half way in order to get the work. I remember a case in point. By a mutual understanding between the master and the men a contract was taken at reduced wages, with the result that the work was so cheapened that the master was able to pay full rates at the end of the year.

"In England, on the contrary, it is quite out of the question to attempt to come to any mutual understanding of this sort with

the workmen. I know one case where a large contract was taken on the basis of existing wages, and no sooner did the men find that the contract had been signed than they struck for an increase. As the contract had been taken only on a small margin of profit, it was found impossible to accede to their demands. The work was taken to France. When the strike ended there was nothing to do. The Frenchmen got the work, they have kept it ever since, and the English works have now been closed for several years.

"If England wishes to compete successfully and to maintain the position which she sought to occupy as a great manufacturing nation, she will not only have to equip her factories with the latest and best instruments, but she will also have to obtain the earnest coöperation of the men who work those instruments. The antagonism which at present exists between the masters and the men is altogether artificial. The great majority of the employers treat their men with absolute justice. Unfortunately in many cases the wages paid are so high as to leave nothing for the master. If the men were left to themselves they would probably very soon see that it was to their interest to do their best and look upon their employers as friends and benefactors; but the working man has been taught by the professional agitator that his greatest enemy is his employer. He is made to believe that to be a capitalist is to be a criminal and that to cheat his master is the only way to 'get square' with him, and he is foolish enough to pay the man who teaches him this folly enough to enable him to live without working."

"What mechanical improvements do you think most necessary in British manufacturing methods?" I asked Sir Hiram.

"I should say the adoption of what is known as standardization and interchangeability. The Americans first adopted this, I think, in connection with the manufacture of Springfield rifles. Before that time each particular rifle had its own individuality-no two were alike. The introduction of the interchangeable system did away with all this irregularity and greatly simplified and cheapened the product. It enable the manufacturers to make all the separate pieces in large quantities, each particular piece being fitted to a gauge. If it passed the gauge it was sure to fit the gun. The Americans are not

alone in the use of this system to-day as far as guns are concerned but they have applied it to many other things, such as locomotives, steam engines and even bridges. This has given them a great advantage. One of the reasons why the interchangeable system pays better in the United States than it could in Europe is because the United States is so much bigger than any country in Europe. It costs a great deal to make jigs and gauges and it does not pay unless the output is very large. Perhaps there is no maker of locomotives in Europe whom it would pay to adopt the system now used by the Baldwins of Philadelphia."

"Is the British business man indolent or merely deliberate?" I asked.

"I do not think we can call the English business men indolent when we consider that they have accumulated more wealth in proportion to their numbers than any other people that ever lived in the world. In almost every part of the world British capital is invested."

"You were speaking just now of what England must do to maintain her present position in the commercial world. Do you expect her to regain her lost leadership?"

"I think there can be no question that the United States will continue to lead. In fact I feel certain that she will not only maintain the lead, but will increase it. I might say that in the immediate future she ought to lead all competitors put together. By this I do not mean that English manufactures or exports will fall off; for England will no doubt maintain easily the position which she now occupies. It is her relative position which she has lost. American manufacturers have many advantages in their favor, such as a very large, rich prosperous population, and absolute free trade from one end of the country to the other. The number of purchasers is not only greater than any other country, but the standard of living among the working classes is much higher. Consequently the purchasing class is vastly out of proportion to that found in any other country in the world.

"Moreover in the United States coal and iron are very cheap and abundant, and the labor troubles are not so nettling as they are in England. It seems to me that the formation of immense trusts in the United States cannot fail to be very advantageous to the

manufacturing interests of the country. There is no question that there is a certain clique in the United States which is seeking to agitate the working people, and to stir up the strife between master and man that has proved so disastrous in England. If they should succeed the cost of production would be vastly increased in the United States.

"During the last six or seven years the engineering trades of England have been very prosperous, and this prosperity is principally due to the fact that, in the great strike which took place in 1896 and 1897, the workmen struck, not for higher wages, but for the control of the works. They practically asked that the management of the engineering works should be turned over to the professional agitator. The claim was so preposterous that for the first time in the history of England a solid and bona fide combination of the manufacturers was formed; in other words a union of the employers was able to hold out against the strike until the funds of the strikers were exhausted. Had it not been for this combination the present prosperity of the engineering trades would have been impossible.

"I think that we may consider the great trusts of the United States little more than combinations of employers who arrange a plan to make it impossible for any single firm to withdraw or to take advantage of other firms. If such a combination does nothing more than to prevent strikes it will give the Americans a decided advantage over their European rivals."

"Do you think that economic and political changes will be necessary for the retention of the present British position?"

"England has many natural advantages, while all the disadvantages are self-made and artificial. England has plenty of coal and iron. If it were possible to import, say, Italians who would work a reasonable number of hours in the mines, coal and iron would be greatly cheapened in England. England has better coal and more of it than any other European country, and iron of a better quality is cheaply and easily imported from Norway, Sweden and Spain. England has more capital than any other country in the world of the same population. England has also an immense mercantile fleet which is ready to take her products into the most distant parts of the world. But as against this the employers are

too conservative. Many of the English factories would be greatly benefitted by a fire. If you try to instruct them, they will answer that everyone knows that machinery is better in England than anywhere else in the world.

"In regard to protection there is no question that a considerable number of people in England are in favor of some kind of protection against foreign competition. I think, however, that it will be a long time coming, and when it does come, that it will be like a good many other laws and have exactly a contrary effect to that which its framers would wish."

66 Do you look forward to any large movement of British trade interests to the United States?"

"The United States is relatively a new country. I think we might say that England is the most remarkable little country in the world just as the United States is the most remarkable big country. There are and will be for many years to come vast openings for the employment of capital in the United States. The resources of England are already developed; the resources of the United States, on the other hand, are only partially developed; and, as England has more accumulated capital than any other nation and as capital can be employed to the greatest advantage in the United States, we may, I think, look forward to a large movement of capital in the direction of the newer country."

"Moreover, Englishmen as a rule do not like to be bullied by trade-union leaders. They naturally prefer to invest their capital where there is least chance of annoyance from this source.

"In regard to a trade partnership, as an Anglo-Saxon I am very much in favor of a general strong alliance between the two countries. I feel sure that there is but one way for the great Anglo-Saxon race to hold the place which it has won by virtue of its great strength and resources, and that is by entering into a strong general alliance. Europe at the present moment is forced to make very large purchases from both these countries, especially from the United States. The United States is fast becoming the food purveyor of the world and it may be at no very remote time that if a continental nation wishes to go to war she will have to obtain a license from the United States, or have no food for her troops."