Q. Success fully?-A. It was not refined oil, quiteprimitive, but it was there and I saw it. The oil as it comes from the deposit looked like chocolate, and I saw some of it.

Mr. REID.

Q. What is the nature of the carriage-making industry in Manila?A. It is very advanced. To keep a carriage in Manila does not signify anything socially. Everybody keeps a carriage; there is a great demand for them.

Q. They are small?-A. Yes, sir; little victorias.

Q. Well built?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Would there be a chance for an export trade in carriages?—A. The question of freight would be a rather cumbersome thing. Singapore would be the nearest place to do anything with carriages; in Hongkong there is no such thing. I think there exist there six omnibuses which are looked upon as very wonderful, but which are very primitive, and which are only used by the Chinese. Mr. Keswick, of Jordan, Mason & Co., I think has a carriage; I have seen it once or twice, but it is a heavy sort of thing which is put away six months at a time, and only brought out when any big personage came to Hongkong. But everyone of any importance resides more or less up on the leak. When I lived in Hongkong I lived 600 feet up, and that was very low down indeed.

Mr. FRYE:

Q. How did you go up and down?-A. By the use of coolies. I had four coolies, two in front and two behind, and they carried me in a sort, of car swung on poles.

Mr. REID:

Q. Can you give the cost of those carriages?-A. You can get a nicely built carriage for $350 Mexican.

Q. A victoria-A. Yes. sir. Something might be done with horses in Singapore.

Mr. FRYE:

Q. Do they breed horses very largely -A. Yes, sir. They are ponies, as we call them in England. They do not come above 14 hands, but they are very sturdy little things, and a splendid race of animals, very useful indeed, quite docile, of great endurance. The China pony is a very cantankerous, bad-tempered animal, but the Manila pony is of very good temper.

Q. Large enough for cavalry-A. Oh, yes. And there is a great field there for breeding horses. Heretofore the people have not liked to go on breeding, because as soon as any official knows that you have a good pony he will come down on you. He will meet you on the highway, and if he sees you with a good pony he will want to know if you have a license to have the pony, and if you cannot satisfy him he will take your pony away. Right on the highroad, like a highwayman. The Spaniards would almost compel you to carry every kind of document in your waistcoat pocket; it is perfectly absurd.

Q. What is that island directly south of Luzon?-A. Mindora. Q. That is the island on which you say the Spaniards do not allow anyone to do anything? A. Yes, sir; it is a great mystery why. Q. A good harbor on the island?-A. No, sir; very open.

Mr. GRAY:

Q. What about the earthquakes?-A. In this century the greatest of the earthquakes which may be considered of very great importance was that in the year 1863, when, amongst other damage done, the whole of the roof of the cathedral came off and the building collapsed, and it is estimated 2,000 people were killed. It shook down also the Governor-General's residence in the same square where the cathedral was situated. It shattered it to pieces. That was in 1863, and two years ago only they started to rebuild this official palace. Since 1863 the Governor-General has resided outside of Manila, in a place called Malacanan.

Q. Have there been any earthquakes since?-A. In 1880 there was a serious earthquake, seventeen years after, and a great deal of damage was done, and all the people very much scared. All the foreigners escaped to the ships in the bay. Very serious damage was done, although there was but little loss of life. In 1882 there was a cholera epidemic, which was a very rare thing, and I suppose 20 Europeans died and about 40,000 natives, and a typhoon came after the epidemic, and the whole thing vanished in twenty-four hours.

Q. What did the typhoon do?-A. Carried off the roofs of 50 or 60 houses. Some of the corrugated iron work from the roofs was carried off into the streets, and a number of Chinamen risked their lives to get it, and one had his head cut off.

Q. Are they frequent?-A. There are more or less every year, but they are not so serious. Once every six or seven years there is one rather serious, and there is a certain amount of loss in schooners and sailing vessels and the interisland carrying trade.

Q. There are volcanoes there?-A. Yes, sir. When the volcanoes are in eruption they know there is no danger. In this lake near Manila, known as the Laguna del Bayo, there is a very pretty and famous volcano known as the one of Taal, which was in eruption when I last heard from Manila. There is a business to be done there-the export of sulphur. At one time it was permitted, but all of a sudden the Government expressly prohibited it. There is another volcano there which is very famous, and one of the finest things to be seen, with the most perfect cone to be seen. In nature it is like an enormous limpet shell, and the most perfect, on the clean cut style, and that is the volcano of Mayon, in the extreme east of the island of Luzon, in the province of Albay. That is a very fine volcano; a grand sight to see it at night. Of course the whole island is supposed to be volcanic origin, and when the volcanoes are in eruption you know there is no danger; you know that there will be no earthquakes, and they do no damage. Of course some of the natives are stupid enough to live in the immediate vicinity and occasionally get killed.

Q. When is the rainy season?-A. The middle six months of the year; the first three months and the last three months is the dry

season.

Q. From April to October?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. It is rather an uncomfortable season?-A. Yes, sir; drenching rains come, frightful downpours sometimes, but everything dries so quickly.

Q. How in the other six months, from October to April?—A. Out of those six months, four months absolutely not a drop; approaching it, it shades off.

Q. Pleasant months?-A. Delightful. I would not choose any other place to live in the month of December. Any where in the islands is

simply delicious; a most wonderful climate; altogether it is very agree able living, a very pretty place.

The CHAIRMAN:

Q. Suppose that the island of Luzon were taken, and we should have a stipulation for free trade, for free intercourse between the islands, and that Spain shall never alienate any of the islands to any other power, what have you left of Spanish sovereignty in any of the other islands, what is left to Spain, practically, in the islands not taken?-A. Their honor.

Q. Then, you have, practically, the islands deserted and no right to change the ownership?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. In a case of that kind, would it not be as well to take the entire property and be done with it?-A. By taking the whole of the islands, it would be a favor to Europe by setting aside all chance of rivalry.

Q. You do not seem to think it would be much of a burden?-A. No, sir; only a little more expense of administration, which I think would be covered by the islands themselves.

Mr. REID:

Q. Do you have any doubt that, with a judicious administration of the revenues of the islands, those revenues would be sufficient to cover the expenses of the islands? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You think they would be sufficient?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you think we would be able to recruit a sufficient number of native soldiers to form a garrison of sufficient defense?-A. I am in doubt about the island of Mindanao. It is a large island, and you could not think of recruiting any Mussulmans.

Q. Do you think we could recruit, exclusive of Mindanao, enough native soldiers to maintain and defend our sovereignty over the whole group? A. Yes, sir.

Mr. FRYE:

Q. I understand Spain has not much to do with that lower island of Mindanao-A. Oh, no.

The CHAIRMAN:

Q. What would be the effect-suppose we keep Luzon-if Spain should find it too expensive to undertake to maintain her sway and sovereignty over the rest of the islands, of the establishment of some other power there?—A. I should make strenuous efforts to keep out the Germans.

Q. Why?-A. Because Germany is just now Great Britain's very strong competitor in trade, and I think in the next generation will be the same with America. Perhaps it would be all right with this generation, or for twenty-five years, but I think Germany is, with the next generation, destined to be the great competitor.

Mr. GRAY:

Q. Do you not think any government, with Christian civilization and better government, would be better than Spain?-A. I am looking at the material

Q. The material comes with that; if you are looking at mere trade rivalry, that is another thing.-A. I do not think Germany has shown that she is capable of governing.

The CHAIRMAN:

Q. Your idea, in short, is this: You would prevent the alienation of the rest of the group because, peradventure, Spain might alienate to

Germany!--A. Yes, sir. As to France, I always regard France as like taking a map, and it is practically blotted out commercially. It prevents others coming in, but there is nothing to be got out of it. Metaphorically speaking, it is simply blotting out that portion of the map. France does not develop anything; there is no development of any kind, and there is nothing to fear from France in competition of any kind, now or in the future, that I can see. May I make an observation? The name of Japan has been brought up. It is, of course, quite out of the question, because it is a pagan nation. The natives have been brought up as Christians, and I am sure it would be opposed to the popular opinion in Europe, and in America, I should think. That excludes Japan, in my opinion.

Mr. FRYE:

Q. Do you not think Japan will improve in that direction as she has in others?-A. I do not think so.

STATEMENT OF COMMANDER R. B. BRADFORD, U. S. N., OCTOBER 14, 1898, BEFORE THE UNITED STATES PEACE COMMISSION AT PARIS.

Examination by the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Will you please state your name, residence, and position in the United States Navy?-A. R. B. Bradford, commander, United States Navy, Chief Bureau of Equipment, Navy Department, Washington, D. C.

Q. How long have you been in the naval service of the United States?-A. Since 1861.

Q. State briefly in what positions and capacities.-A. I have performed service in all the subordinate grades of the Navy, including command afloat and at various stations on shore.

Q. In the course of your duties have you had occasion to visit the group of islands known as the Philippine Islands?-A. I have visited Manila on three different occasions. I have never visited any of the islands other than Luzon, except the coast along their shores.

Q. When were you at Manila?-A. I was there first in 1867, again in 1868, and again in 1869; not since.

Q. Have you had any occasion recently to investigate the situation on these islands?-A. During the past two months I have made a study of the islands and their value as colonies of the United States.

Q. State briefly what sources of information, other than your own visits there, you have had access to and had occasion to examine.-A. All the publications on the subject I could find, particularly those bearing on maritime and naval matters, coal to be found, and harbors suitable for coaling and naval stations, and as bases for naval operations.

Q. Will you state what islands or places in your judgment are suited for naval bases, harbors, etc.?-A. I think the entire group would be a very valuable acquisition for naval and commercial purposes. The group is composed of over 400 islands, excluding rocks and islands not inhabited. These islands are so crowded together that anyone would in time of war require a large force for its defense, if the neighboring islands were in possession of an enemy. It would be less difficult to defend the entire group under such circumstances than a single island. In case a division of the islands is made, those, in my opinion, of the most value from a strategic point of view are Luzon, Mindoro, the Calamianes group, Palawan, and Balabac. These command all the entrances to the China Sea from the north end of Luzon to Borneo. The best harbors for coaling stations are the following, mentioned in order of their relative importance so far as known:

1. Manila, or Cavite, island of Luzon, latitude 14° 29′ north, longitude 120° 55' east; Subig Bay, island of Luzon, latitude 14° 46' north, longitude 120° 13' east, might be taken as an alternative.