Miss COATES (Bristol) referred to the case of the Unitarian Schools, Bristol, conducted as British Schools, to show that teachers of various denominations worked harmoniously together, and defending the pupil teachers from the charges of inefficiency, observed that if the managers of the schools would only do their duty, the pupil teachers would be well enough. That was her experience of British Schools, where the pupil teachers had gone out and done well.

Mr. JAGO (of the British Free Schools, Plymouth) added his experience that it was possible for teachers of different denominations to work harmoniously together. At his school, fifteen pupil teachers and three teachers represented no less than eight denominations; and the committee of the schools came from all the religious bodies in the town. The great want of pupil teachers arose from the want of confidence in the Education Department. Though pupil teachers were apprenticed too young, his experience was that they were not altogether so inefficient as had been represented. One central college would not meet the want, for already the expense of going to London was too much.

The Rev. F. E. ANTHONY (Plymouth) thought they were much indebted to Mr. Clarke for his proposal of a central national college, which, however, he took only to be a germ of a system which might be developed throughout the country. The system was so simple in principle and easy of extension that colleges might be established in all great centres. If we could enlist the sympathies of classes outside those from which the supply of teachers was at present drawn, that would enable us to obtain teachers sufficient within the next few years to meet the extraordinary demand which had arisen. The denominational institutions should be allowed to compete with such colleges as those proposed by Mr. Clarke. If they could hold their own they would have won their right; but he believed the time was not far distant when the denominational system would altogether disappear, as regarded both schools and training colleges.

Mr. CLARKE, in reply, said the London School Board had sought far and wide for teachers for their schools. They found they were depriving other schools of teachers; and that brought home to them the question of the inadequate supply. He sketched out a scheme for the committee, who considered the matter; but there appeared to be in that committee a strong Conservative feeling with regard to the maintenance of training colleges that are in existence. He hardly hoped now that any scheme of the kind would be assented to and adopted; but he hoped the Association would do its best to lay before the public the principle on which it was founded. With regard to the maximum number for a class, the committee, after examining many teachers, concluded that sixty was the largest number that ought to be taught by a special teacher. He did not propose religion should form a part of the curriculum of the college, but the students might easily find means of religious association. Religious teaching was not to be shut out of the college because religion was inimical per se, but because it ought to be put in its right relation.

The PRESIDENT (Mr. Hastings) entirely agreed with the leading principle of Mr. Clarke's paper, that there ought to be a training school, or training schools, established, which should be thoroughly national in their character, to which all might go who desired to go, without reference to denominational or theological differences. He had not the smallest doubt that, following what was undoubtedly the bent of the mind of the people of this country, probably increasing in intensity in that as in all other respects, our educational system would at no distant period be made national. It was not necessary because you made a college undenominational, that therefore you should make it purely secular, or ignore the religious principle in its administration. The words religion and religious were continually used in discussion in a wholly incorrect sense, meaning that which was dogmatical, theological, and denominational. He objected to the use of the words religion and religious in these senses. We ought to use them only when we speak of fostering the true religious principle, that from its nature must be in all earnest minds above these mere differences of opinion. It was quite possible to have an institution conducted in a religious way, and with a most religious aim, although it should not teach any of the dogmas which form the differences between the various denominations of Christians. In giving his entire assent to the scheme propounded, he wished to guard himself against the supposition that therefore he would have the teachers in the college brought up in disregard of what must lie

at the root of all sound education. He admitted the inadequacy in the supply of teachers, and the consequent necessity for additional facilities for producing them; but as the need would not be felt by board schools, that was, by undenominational schools, he thought too much stress must not be laid upon the difficulty as it affected undenominational teaching. His own board would advertise for a master and mistress, and as they would offer higher salaries than were paid to the masters and mistresses of the surrounding denominational schools, they would draw from them two of their best teachers. The board would take the best they could get. The boards would not feel the need of more teachers, because they were safe to be supplied; but some of the denominational schools, which lost their teachers in this way, would find it difficult to supply the vacancies. For these reasons he did not agree with what was said by Mr. Payne about the new college mentioned by Miss Sheriff for the training of women of the higher classes as teachers in elementary schools. Under any circumstances he should rejoice to hear of an institution which threw open to women of the higher and the upper middle classes the work of teaching in elementary schools, without their resorting to the present training colleges. It was only three weeks ago that he was applied to on behalf of two young ladies-ladies in every sense, both as to rank and education-to know whether they could qualify themselves to obtain certificates as teachers of elementary schools, without going through a training college. They said, it was impossible for them to go there, because they found on inquiry they would have to associate there with a class with whom they were not accustomed to associate, which would be disagreeable to both; and they wanted to know whether there was any other means by which they could obtain certificates. Practically there was none. He was quite aware that there was a proviso for certificating women who had not passed through a training school; but then they must have passed through something even more irksome: they must have worked as assistants in elementary schools. He was therefore rejoiced to hear that there was a training school established for upper-class women to fit them for teaching in elementary schools. He could not imagine any occupation more fitted for many ladies in this country who were under the necessity of earning an income, and who it was desirable should not go to swell the already overstocked ranks of governesses. Such ladies would bring the refinement of high education to bear upon girls of the weekly-wage class, and that would be one of the happiest things that could occur. He therefore could not sympathize with the objection to this college taken by Mr. Payne, who said it would be a denominational college, conducted in the interests of the Church of England; for, after all, Church schools would be the very schools that would want the new supply of teachers, and the ladies trained in this college would be fit to supply the vacancies that would occur. At the same time he should be glad to see a really national college for the training of women as well as of men for this work. He approved of the arrangement of schools in classes in contradistinction to having classes in schools; and wherever it could be done it would be productive of the best results. In Worcester he endeavoured to open up negotiations with the elementary schools, to find out whether they would join the board in adopting that plan; but the difficulty which stood in the way of so many benefits, namely, the theological difficulty, cropped up; the denominational schools would not join with the board school, because they could not be satisfied that all would be taught which they thought necessary. Consequently, he feared that for the present that undertaking would have to be postponed. But he had no doubt that the more elementary education was nationalized, the more would it be seen in every town and city of sufficient size, that the best plan was to place all boys of the first class in one good school, to put the boys of the second class into another good school, to place all under good masters, and so fit them to pass into the higher education of the secondary schools.

What Public Provision ought to be made for the Secondary Education of Girls?

MISS

ISS SHERIFF said it was difficult to say in what sense the word public can be used in speaking on this subject, as it would seem to refer to Government assistance. Looking to the waste of national resources caused by the ignorance and by the undeveloped or misdirected power of women, such assistance would be a national wrong, but would not, according to English precedent, be expected. The only public revenue available for such purpose are the endowments; hitherto they have been almost monopolized by men, the proportion in which they have derived aid from them as compared with women being as ninety-two to one. In justice we might claim that in the remodelling now going on, all unappropriated sums should be given for the education of girls; but such a claim would not be listened to by Parliament or the country. Doubtless, we shall get more than we have had, but far short of what is needed. In default of public assistance we must stir up public feeling, work upon opinion, and by collective action do what in other countries would be done by Government. Had Government funds been given for secondary education, a uniform system would have prevailed; in the absence of this help, how can such an advantage be secured? The most glaring defect of girl's education is want of method. This was curiously illustrated lately by the discussion on Miss Sheriff's paper at the British Institution. No ruling principle seemed to exist in the speakers' minds, that their daughters were to be educated, except to please or be useful to them. No method can exist till a definite purpose is acknowledged in the education, and a definite aim in the instruction. The purpose of the education must be sought in the duties-equally binding on men and women— of cultivating and using their faculties freely, according to their own conscience, and in the service of their fellow-creatures. The aim of instruction naturally follows when once that principle is admitted. But such views will hardly be carried out while education is conducted in private schools at the mercy of individual caprice. Boys' schools are equally free from Government regulation, but the universities providing all the first teachers, and standing as the goal to which the best pupils aim, influence the whole system, and the preparation for practical work keeps it up in another direction. Neither of these forces acting from without, have had any plan in the education of girls. The National Union for Improving the Education of Women, constituted a year ago, aims at creating a system in which girls' schools shall come under the same influence that acts beneficially upon boys; for this purpose it proposes-first, large public day schools working under the control of a governing body. Secondly, that each school should have a class specially devoted to training teachers, and that teachers should be registered. Thirdly. That

* See Transactions, 1871, p. 366.

schools should be regularly inspected, so that their school-work should be tested. Beyond this system of schools Girton College, opened three years ago, offers to girls the opportunities of following the complete course of Cambridge studies. The numbers are yearly increasing; the work done is excellent, and it is hoped that our first-class teachers will in future have the benefit of such training, and will thus raise the noble profession of teaching, as regards women. Other plans besides the college are now in operation for giving higher education to women. The colleges of the universities of London, of Edinburgh, and of Durham, have opened their classes to women, and they can work them without danger of the standard being lowered for them. All the plans for study after school time have the advantage in common of prolonging the period of tuition, of preventing the 18th birthday heralding in years of utter idleness. The contrast in this respect that has prevailed in the case of boys and girls is startling in the evil and the folly of the tone pursued with the latter. College life is known to be valuable to women, but funds are still required to build the colleges. The paper closes with a brief summary of the system which may, it is hoped, be established without the aid of any public provision. Then once more, under the influence of public opinion, would private energies and resources have done in England what in other countries can only be done by the aid of Government; and such a reform may be the more lasting, that it will be founded on conviction and will have been wrought out by time.

DISCUSSION.

Miss CARPENTER (Bristol) said, Miss Sheriff had particularly inquired whether Government or public help was needed. Very great efforts were being made by the Charity Commissioners to establish superior girls' schools of a very admirable character, and she had no doubt when the plan was completed there would be a large number of such as had been already established in Birmingham, where a very excellent education may be obtained by young ladies at a very reasonable rate. But she wished to call attention to the point at which Government help was needed. It was recognised by the public that there should be a better education given to females, but, granted there were sufficient schools established, where were we to get teachers for them? We had none but male teachers to look to; we could not look to the certificated teachers who had been trained in the Government normal schools, even if we wished, because the school boards want them. She would not look to that class of teacher, for Government did not give them the education young ladies required. Those teachers were for the most part taken from the working classes, and it was of the utmost importance to obtain for young ladies teachers in their own position of life, with similar feelings and manners. Were we then to look to male teachers? She thought very highly of the influence of gentlemen in teaching different branches of knowledge to girls, but still she did not regard it as desirable for a gentleman to have the details of the management of a girls' school, any more than a woman, however powerful, should have the management of a boys' school. Where were we to look for female teachers? Even a college education did not prepare women to be teachers. The pupils were repeatedly told that it was hoped the education they received would prepare them in any emergency to become teachers; but many laughed at the idea. It so hap pened that some of them had become teachers; but still they did not go to school with that object; and young ladies seeking that kind of education would not wish to undergo the drudgery of teaching. The university local examinations were raising the tone of education, and causing people to be dissatisfied with such as

they had obtained in the past; and there was a deficiency in the supply of teachers for the next generation. Where, then, were we to look? First of all, in no Government normal school were girls of the higher class to be found. It had been said that demand would create supply; but this was absurd, because you could not make teachers in six months. Mr. Payne had impressed upon them very truly that education was an art and a science, and was not to be learned in a short time. Speaking generally, the education given in girls' schools was not thorough, but was superficial, and it was a general opinion that young ladies who went out as governesses were not well qualified to teach. There was in the country a vast amount of raw material, young ladies who might easily be made into teachers. Such were the daughters of professional men with large families, young ladies who wished to do something for themselves, and did not know what to do, who had been brought up in superior habits, and were obliged to live in an economical manner. If there were the means of offering them the necessary training to become teachers, a large number could be trained in six months. Of course, it was assumed that the ladies were educated, and that those who were best educated would be selected. Six months of good training by scientific masters, such as Mr. Payne, would enable them to gain such a knowledge of teaching as to be able to carry it on satisfactorily, and to go on improving themselves. This, however, could not be done unless there was Government help. No private efforts, however great, could possibly create these teachers in the time in which they would be wanted. Therefore, she would urge on the Section to endeavour to try to draw the attention of Government to the necessity of providing training colleges for young ladies. Government provided them when they wished to raise the general education of the country; let them do it when the want was to elevate that of the middle class. Government ought to do what we cannot do for ourselves.

Mrs. AMELIA LEWIS (London) could not participate in Miss Sheriff's discouragement at the present aspect of affairs. If we were beginning to see the importance of educating women for their large share of life's duties, we were getting on. We are at the bottom of the hill, and we must begin to ascend. Our feminine instincts are always inclined to jump to conclusions. We must not jump at results; we must work for them. We must see what we mean by education, by female education. We must then see what help men will give us. Although in the general groundwork of female education you are behind Germany, you are above it in claiming for women equal education with men. There is no college like that at Hitchin in Germany; there are no Government examinations; but there is a sound plain system of general education, without accomplishments, for girls. The accomplishments are left to the circumstances of the parent. That sound foundation you want first. Let us first get moderate, sound, plain, general instruction in public schools for girls.

Mr. JOSEPH PAYNE (London), remarking that opinion was queen of the world, said he wished to show what sort of teachers opinion had tolerated. It had often been asserted that a person with no good qualification to do anything set up as a teacher. A lady who had a large establishment advertised for a lady superintendent, to assist her in organization and management, in selecting masters and mistresses, in arranging classes, and in teaching. The salary offered was 100 guineas, with board and lodging. She received 900 replies, and a gentleman who went carefully through 300, found miracles of bad spelling, astounding instances of bad grammar, and every conceivable defect in education. Until we get opinion to denounce teachers without special qualification, we should never arrive at a correct estimate of education as an art and a science. Any one who comprehended what real education was, would know that it was a different thing from the ordinary practice of schools, and especially ladies' schools, a practice which, by ordering to learn and telling, quenched rather than quickened the intellect.

Mr. METHAM (Devonport) observed that whilst all must sympathize with those ladies who, from dire necessity, were forced to be governesses, all must regret the results flowing from it. It was impossible to estimate the injury done by incompetent teachers, and unfortunately few parents were capable of testing the education given to their children, but they would be sufficiently wide awake to appreciate the value of the registration of competent teachers. He pointed to the case of Greenwich Hospital as an instance of the injustice done to girls in the administration of endowments. Endowments had been wrongfully taken from