MEAT-PACKER LEGISLATION. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee this day met, Hon. Gilbert N. Haugen (chairman) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rainey, are you ready to proceed? Dr. Wilson, you may proceed. STATEMENT OF DR. J. M. WILSON, PRESIDENT WYOMING WOOL GROWERS' ASSOCIATION, MEMBER EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE NATIONAL WOOL GROWERS' ASSOCIATION, AND MEMBER OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE AMERICAN NATIONAL LIVE STOCK ASSOCIATION, M'KINLEY, WYO.-Resumed. Dr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, I do not want to leave all the sins on the Senate. I see that a Member of the House of Representatives made a speech yesterday, and I just want to read a couple of sections from it. The speech was by Mr. Zihlman, of Maryland. The newspaper article said: Charging reckless extravagance by these bureaus in the expenditure of $897,101,766 since the armistice, Congressman Zihlman warned Congress that such bureaus, characterized by Lincoln as "schemes to cheat the Government," have no place in our original plan of government. I will skip a lot of the speech. Unless a check is put upon the ambition and request, we will soon have a Government not of the people, but by boards and commissions, each of which is intent upon expanding its own jurisdiction, importance, and power and caring little for the efforts or the duplication of their own efforts by overlapping agencies. I dislike very much to go into this bill, as I see that the attorneys do not agree on it, and it would be hardly fair to ask a layman to. The CHAIRMAN. You would not expect the attorneys to agree on it? Dr. WILSON. Probably not. I want to refer to two or three points in it only, points that a layman can understand. For instance, it goes on and provides: The location, character, and extent of grounds, buildings, and other facilities provided or to be provided by the applicant are found suitable and adequate for the proper conduct of the business sought to be registered. Now, I do not believe you have in the United States Government, in the bureaus or anywhere else, anybody who is able to pass on that proposition. This is in section 25. Then it provides: The financial resources, credit, and standing of the applicant are sufficient to assure the safe conduct of the business. There have been several packing propositions before the public during the last year. There is one in Iowa, I believe, that has gone wrong, in which they are now in court in regard to the selling of stock. There is one in Omaha, known as the Skinner Co. Mr. YOUNG. Is there anything significant in the name? Dr. WILSON. Well, they have been there quite a while and have done a wonderful business in marketing and things of that kind. The Skinner people have their plant completed and are now at work. What they did to make possible the success was to take one of the employees of Armour who had been with Armour for 37 years; they took him as the manager of their plant. I think they are now killing, at least a month ago they tried the machinery out in the hog department to see if it worked and it worked. They have a magnificent building and everything of that kind. They have taken Armour's man; naturally I suppose paying him a better salary or they could not have gotten him. He had been with Armour for some 35 years. That is the man who is the general manager of the Skinner outfit, and, I think, president. There have been a whole lot of other deals through the country; how successful, I do not know. Mr. MCLAUGHLIN of Nebraska. You mentioned the Skinner plant in connection with this one in Iowa that has gotten into trouble. You do not mean to infer that there was anything wrong with the Skinner plant? Dr. WILSON. Absolutely no. Mr. BORDERS. That is a big plant with a lot of money. Mr. BALDWIN. Permit me to say that it is not the Midland Packing Co. that is in trouble; it is the Midland Cattle & Loan Co. that is in trouble about the stock. That is not connected in any way with the Midland Packing Co. The CHAIRMAN. Please give the name of the concern in Iowa. Dr. WILSON. It is a new one that was started. I just saw the press dispatches. About the Skinner proposition, I know personally that they have a magnificent building. They take the animals to the top story of the building and kill them and work right down the line, always down hill. They have a wonderful plant, there is no question about that. The CHAIRMAN. The one in Iowa that you referred to, is that a success or failure? Dr. WILSON. They have not started. It was a stock-selling arrangement and some of the people who bought the stock Mr. BALDWIN (interposing). That is the Midland Cattle & Loan Co. and has nothing to do with the Midland Packing Co. at all. The CHAIRMAN. The one in Iowa? Mr. BALDWIN. The one that got into trouble in the courts through selling stock was not the Midland Packing Co.; that was the Midland Cattle & Loan Co. That has been settled now amicably. The CHAIRMAN. Where is that located? Mr. BALDWIN. The Midland Cattle & Loan Co. has its headquarters in Sioux City and also the Midland Packing Co., but they are not a failure in any sense. Dr. WILSON. Another part of this bill- Mr. HUTCHINSON (interposing). What is the idea of the Iowa plant hiring the Armour man? Dr. WILSON. It shows that there is no agreement among the packers, that whenever they can get a good man anywhere they take him and pay him the price. Mr. BORDERS. I think it also shows that the big packers have now actual active competition, which is certainly the fact. Mr. ANDERSON. Not according to the figures. Mr. BORDERS. That is not the only new plant which has gone up recently, there are other big ones. Dr. WILSON. In No. 2 of section 25 it says: The financial resources, credit, and standing of the applicant are sufficient to assure the safe conduct of the business. That depends on the handling of it; it depends on the man more than it does on the capital. If there is fixed a certain basis, if this law is to be passed, it appears to me that this committee are as competent to pass on what would be the amount of capital necessary as the commission would. If you want to have an amount, $500, $5,000, $50,000, or $1,000,000, state so in the law, so that men would know that if they had so much capital they could go on, but I think that the Skinner people with the management they have would get along with one-half the capital, because the man they have taken from Armour has a national reputation for ability. He has been the manager of their big plant at Omaha which, I guess, is about the second largest that Armour has in size, outside of the new one at Minneapolis, and with him in charge, with his reputation, it would give him a better opportunity, a better chance of borrowing money than a new manager, because the ability of the men has as much to do with it as the capital has. In reading this bill the one thing that strikes a layman is the rules, regulations, etc., which occur frequently, and that the bill might be plain and explicit as asked for in the resolution signed by the American National Live Stock Association, but this bill is not plain and explicit; there is room for doubt in a great many places. For instance, just in the section which I read from where they say shall pass upon the financial ability, and so on, of the party, that leaves it entirely to their judgment, not to anybody else. They may take into consideration the character of the men, and so on, but unless they have a fixed amount of capital that it is necessary to have, why, there is no certainty to it at all. It is unnecessary to tell the gentlemen of this committee that more depends upon the management than upon the capital. As a matter of course, there should be sufficient capital to give them a start. There is another thing you will do, if you make this bill a law, there are many small packing plants scattered all over the country. We have one at Cheyenne that is controlled exclusively by the man, the president of the company, and his son. There is one share of stock owned outside and that is owned by a man whom they gave it to to act as secretary. That plant sells material in competition with the plants at Denver and clear south as far as Pueblo, where there is another packing plant, and they have no trouble in getting business. times they have to do this. I am well acquainted with Mr. Hammond, I have talked with him frequently, they get orders for certain goods in excess of what they have. Then they go to the plants at Denver and buy the excess goods so as to be able to fill the order. They do not do that often, but whenever they run out they do do it. The only objection that I want to make to the bill is that it does not in any particular agree with the resolution adopted at Spokane. Mr. ANDERSON. The principal objection you have is that it was reported a little more promptly than you thought the resolution required? Dr. WILSON. That does not cut much figure, but it does not agree with the resolution. The resolution says that it shall be so plain that there can be no misunderstanding. Mr. ANDERSON. Have you ever known of any bill which was not subject to misunderstanding? Dr. WILSON. No; there is Mr. ANDERSON (interposing). You are asking something which you know is impossible. Dr. WILSON. No. There has been no effort in the bill. They could have made an effort Mr. ANDERSON (interposing). That is wholly unwarranted, because you do not know how much effort they made or did not make. Dr. WILSON. I know this. I know the ability of the men in the Congress of the United States is such that they can pass a bill that is more explicit than this bill. I should dislike very much to think otherwise. Gentlemen, I will let it go with that. I want here to state an instance of what I am trying to do so that you will permit me to go further. I am going to try to show you that according to the Government figures on live stock it is necessary to find a market for an immense amount of meat and that if that outlet is not found the producers of meat are going to have considerable trouble, and especially in the West, where a lot of the producers, unless carried by the banks, must go broke on account of the drought and the fall in prices. I know several young men in Wyoming who have saved up several thousand dollars. They were good boys, good workers, good young men, and when they had saved that amount of money they bought cattle, going in debt, probably one-half being carried by the bankers and the loan companies. At the price to-day with the loss they have had on the cattle the amount that they put in is absolutely gone, and not only that part of the funds is gone, but the cattle to-day would not sell for the loans. Then, I want to show you that while we are having this legislation that the British Government has had a committee investigating and listening to suggestions, just like you gentlemen have here, and the report of that committee fits in with this, that if we do not get an outlet or we do not eat more meat, that we are gone. We know this, that in certain parts of the West to-day the men with bunches of cattle are closing them out just as fast as they can. I omitted to state that in a great part of the West, outside of the Southwest, the stockmen are not cattlemen or are not sheepmen, but they have both cattle and sheep. I was at Big Horn Basin, Wyo., not long ago, where I suppose there is as much wealth in cattle held by the sheepmen as there are sheep held, and a good many of the largest cattle concerns in the country are also the largest sheep concerns. Those men are closing out their cattle as fast as they can. With the sheep they have the wool clip to help out and the price of wool is probably as high now as it has ever been in the country. With that statement I want to complete this and then I will be ready for any questions. |