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scription and invest it, and there are 13 trustees, public-spirited men of Kansas City-at least the other 12 are devoting their time and attention to this work. Mr. Dickey has abandoned his business in many respects to give attention to this matter. He is a hard-headed business man, and has made a success in life. He subscribed $50,000 to the capital stock of this company and is serving without salary for seven years. The rest of these gentlemen are rendering important service to the company and devoting their time and attention to it. They are successful business men, heads of the biggest institutions we have in our city, and gentlemen, they would not be doing it if they were not satisfied that it will be a paying proposition. It is not pork. We have not one penny's worth of personal advantage to get out of such a thing nor has that section unless we can develop that great medium of transportation which is absolutely necessary, and that condition is accentuated and emphasized since the completion of the Panama Canal, for which we very cheerfully paid our proportion.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it is very commendable in the people to try to build up a commerce even though they do not make anything, but I certainly hope they will be fully compensated for their efforts.

Mr. BLAND. We are going to build it up if the Government does not stop us. But if these appropriations are stopped now you dismantle our boats, you destroy our wharves, and let our machinery rust, and you render worthless the money that we have expended and you waste $6,250,000 that the Government has already expended. It seems to me that such a proposition is the supremest folly.

I do not know whether I have made clear to you gentlemen the conditions under which we have been operating, but we have been operating and doing those things which we thought were best and wisest. We thought if we would go on and operate boats during each season of the year, which has been at a loss except this year, when we had a good channel of water, that that would be some evidence to you, gentlemen, that we intended to continue to operate, and the best assurance that we will continue to operate is the fact that we are holding this half a million dollars in reserve to put into boats and barges. We have our terminals equipped with modern facilities. We can handle a ton of freight at Kansas City for 25 cents, whereas to handle it by roustabout labor will cost $1.20. We also have equipment at St. Louis. The wharf at Kansas City is a municipal wharf which all boats and river carriers can use. We have established a private wharf at St. Louis because we were compelled to undergo that expense; but now St. Louis is waking up and establishing a terminal because they realize they are more favorably located than any inland water city in the United States and as favoraply located as any in the world.

Now, we can handle the freight at each end of the line and we have that been compelled to expend money for those purposes in the capacity of public trustees expending public moneys, and I can assure you every dollar that will be expended for this boat line company will be expended just as carefully as I would vote to expend our school money, and I happen to be a member of the school board of Kansas City. That is the condition under which we have been laboring, operating upon an unimproved channel, with bad crossings and shallow places, and expending our money to evidence our good faith to you gentlemen, and it is a most serious thing to people of that great valley which is perhaps as rich a producing section as there is in the world.

I am not going over the total of products because we deal with that in the record before you gentlemen; but we do insist and we insist with all the earnestness we posses we have done everything that should be expected of us; that we are giving every assurance in the power of mortal man that we will continue to do this, and we ask that this Government which asserts domination and control over this great channel continue to appropriate this money as a right to the people of that great section. If we owned it, in Missouri, let me say to you that the sentiment that would be created there would be such that we would have completed this channel years and years ago, but we can not do it. We have passed laws in Missouri to carve out levee districts

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). But you can do the work if you desire. I am sure the Government will raise no objection. Many States of the Union are taking hold of such streams, and are improving them, at least partly, at their own expense.

Mr. BLAND. We are building the levees.

The CHAIRMAN. But you say that if you had had charge of it you would have done it before. I want to say that if the State of Missouri wants to go ahead and do this work, there will not likely be any objection on the part of the Government.

Mr. BLAND. That is a very different proposition, Mr. Chairman. If we had the actual power without being compelled to come and ask for permission, then we could carve out sentiment in the State in favor of it, but to go and ask to do a thing is a different proposition. The responsibility is not ours, the responsibility is upon the Federal Government.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not asking you to do the work, but when you say that you would have done it long ago if you had had the opportunity, I want to remind you that you may have the opportunity.

Mr. BLAND. When I say that I mean we have not that power as a right. I mean that we can not go to our people and carve out a sentiment in favor of doing this work that we could if the responsibility rested upon us to do it.

The CHAIRMAN. But other States are doing the same thing. For instance, the States of Oregon, Washington, California, and several others are doing the very things you are complaining about.

Mr. BLAND. I submit we are doing everything in our power so far as any obligation or duty rests upon us. Whenever the Government improves the river we follow along under our laws and build the levees. The people do that and they do not hesitate to vote the bonds for that purpose, but it would be a difficult thing to do it under the other circumstances where we have to come and ask for permission to create the sentiment in the minds of the people to go on and complete this work.

If there are any other questions I would be glad to answer them. Mr. LIEB. Speaking about alfalfa, do you handle the raw material and the finished product?

Mr. BLAND. Yes, sir; the 100,000 tons of which I spoke applied to alfalfa meal alone.

Mr. BORLAND. If you will look on page 117 you will find a letter from the Haywood Alfalfa Warehouse Co. which answers your ques

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Bigelow, the secretary of our Kansas City Board of Trade, which is also our grain exchange, is here, and I would like to have him in about one minute tell you about the movement of grain through Kansas City and its relation to water traffic.

STATEMENT OF MR. W. E. BIGELOW, SECRETARY BOARD OF TRADE, KANSAS CITY, MO.

Mr. BORLAND. Mr. Bigelow, tell the committee in a word about the movement of grain through Kansas City and its relation to water transportation.

Mr. BIGELOW. We handled last year over 105,000,000 bushels of wheat on the floor of our exchange. Some of the largest exporters of the country are members of our board of trade and reside in Kansas City. Our chief ports of export are Galveston and New Orleans. A greater quantity is shipped via New Orleans than Galveston. We have storage capacity for grain in Kansas City of over 22,000,000 bushels. Eighty per cent of our storage capacity is of concrete and tile construction. I have not in mind at the moment the capacity of our mills, but we are the third largest milling center in the United States. Minneapolis is first and we were second until Buffalo outstripped us.

Mr. HUMPHREYS of Mississippi. May I ask you a question right there? Are these warehouses and mills so located as to enable them economically to use the river as a means of transportation?

Mr. BIGELOW. They are not immediately on the banks of the river, but that can be easily overcome. If we had the facilities for loading grain directly into the large barges that could go down the Missouri and the Mississippi and alongside an ocean-going steamer, we would have the facilities and there would be transfer elevators on the banks of the river. Now, I simply wanted to say these few words to show you the importance of this matter and to show you without doubt. the river would be utilized, and we are only waiting to have it put in proper shape so we can utilize it with safety and with ordinary expedition.

Mr. BORLAND. Mr. Bigelow, as a matter of fact, in the last two seasons has there not been a large and increasing movement of grain and flour by barge?

Mr. BIGELOWw. There has been of flour, but very little has been done in reference to shipping grain by barge. Of course, we do a very large export business in flour, but the grain up to the present time we have not utilized the river for because we have not the proper facilities for doing it.

The CHAIRMAN. How do you ship your grain now?

Mr. BIGELOW. We ship entirely by rail.

The CHAIRMAN. If you shipped by water, would it be shipped in bulk or in sacks?

Mr. BIGELOW. Everything is shipped in bulk.

Mr. HUMPHREYS of Mississippi. Where is that flour sent to that is to be exported; to which one of our ports?

Mr. BIGELOW. It goes to Liverpool

Mr. HUMPHREYS of Mississippi (interposing). I mean which one of the American ports does it go through?

Mr. BIGELOW. We ship quite largely by New Orleans. Of course, the Minneapolis mills go via New York and Boston and more or less via Baltimore and Newport News, and, while we ship more or less grain from the Atlantic seaboard via the Atlantic ports, our natural export ports are Galveston and New Orleans, and New Orleans takes the greater part; that is, larger than Galveston.

Mr. BORLAND. Now, Mr. Chairman, we have here the president and secretary of the boat line company. Mr. Dickey has been before the committee several times and has asked me this time to have Mr. Mackie, who is the technical man and the secretary of the company, address the committee, and therefore I will call on Mr. Mackie and not call on Mr. Dickey in order to save time.

STATEMENT OF MR. A. W. MACKIE, SECRETARY KANSAS CITY (MO.) RIVER NAVIGATION CO.

Mr. BORLAND. Mr. Mackie, give the committee an idea of the growth of your company's business, the growth of its ability, and its relation to the unimproved channel.

Mr. MACKIE. First, in order that you may understand the scope of my work as secretary, I will say that I am also assistant to Mr. Dickey, the president, and am in active charge of the operation of the boats, and I have been ever since the line was established.

The CHAIRMAN. In the operation of your line have you ever had any difficulty with railroads in any way?

Mr. MACKIE. In only one case, Mr. Chairman. Our rates east and west across the Mississippi in this country happen to break on the Mississippi crossing-that is to say, the rates from New England territory or Atlantic seaboard territory or the Central Freight Association territory are so much up to the Mississippi River, and then, if they go beyond the Mississippi River into the West, there is a difference of so much. In other words, the rates from New York city or New England points to Kansas City on most commodities are a combination of the rate to St. Louis and the rate from St. Louis across. Therefore, freight moving by our lines, moving westbound, comes to St. Louis on the rail lines and is there delivered when they put their cars on our dock. Then we take that freight up and put it on board barges and carry it to Kansas City, where it is again put on board cars and switched to such industry or customer as it is consigned to. We give that delivery service, absorbing, of course, the switching in our 80 per cent rate. We still do that at a saving of 20 per cent to the shipper. There is still that saving on our rate from St. Louis to Kansas City.

Mr. BORLAND. That is one thing I want to bring out. You absorb the switching charges on shipments between St. Louis and Kansas City. That is, you take the goods from the railroad bringing them to St. Louis, put them on a barge, and deliver them at the warehouse of your customer, even though it may not be located on the river?

Mr. MACKIE. That is true. The charges differ. Westbound freight originating in what is known as Central Freight Association territory or in the East is delivered to our line at St. Louis. When we get it to Kansas City, in order to make delivery to the factory or warehouse not located on the river we must have a switching service. The rates for this switching service range from $3 per car, without

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any basis of weight at all, for single-line switching, to as much as $9 per car on two-line switching, and occasionally a car costs $10 or $11 for switching, but our maximum absorption is $9 per car.

The CHAIRMAN. All of the switching charges are absorbed in your general charge for freight?

Mr. MACKIE. Yes, sir. Now, in establishing the rate it was considered advisable to give the customer or shipper a net saving under the rail rate, and in order to do that we had to give the same sort of service that the railroads gave. In other words, we have given the shipper a river service on exactly the same lines as rail service is given. Now, we did that very largely because we wanted to disturb as little as possible the affairs of the customer in his own office because of his patronizing us.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any trouble with the railroads in reference to the matter of terminals? Do they connect with you?

Mr. MACKIE. There was some question in Kansas City with regard to railroad tracks on a public levee. The railroad having paid taxes on some land there, claimed the land. However, that matter was settled amicably. The railroad company gave us a switch to our dock, and they treat us exactly as any other railroad line in Kansas City. They treat us as a connecting carrier, and that is the basis on which we have always worked. We are today a connecting carrier and one unit in the transportation system east and west through the United States. We receive more than 95 per cent of our freight westbound from rail lines concentrating at St. Louis and deliver practically 90 per cent of our freight in Kansas City in connection with railroads.

The CHAIRMAN. At how many points on the river do you touch railroad stations or terminals, or do they have water terminals on the river?

Mr. MACKIE. There are switch tracks to the railroads. Railroads parallel the Missouri River on both banks all the way from Kansas City to St. Louis, and at many points the railroads have switch tracks that come down close to the river, but they have no terminals there. The CHAIRMAN. Do they connect with you there?

Mr. MACKIE. No, sir; there is no occasion to do it. We think this, that a city which desires water rates should provide the connecting link between the freight and the water.

The CHAIRMAN. Are they doing that?

Mr. MACKIE. Different officers of our company have been called upon to visit cities and address commercial organizations on this question and create sentiment and show the reasonableness of it. Our naval architect has prepared a small plan which is suitable for any city of a few thousand population.

The CHAIRMAN. Where are your terminal stations?

Mr. MACKIE. Washington, Mo., which has a shoe factory and a corncob-pipe factory; Hermann, Mo., which has the largest wine industry in our section, and which city also has a German population and a brewery and shoe factory; Jefferson City, which is the capital of the State, has moved up now, and I have been recently asked to come down and tell them about terminals.

Mr. BORLAND. You also have farmers' warehouses?

Mr. MACKIE. Yes, sir; and that brings up another point. The most of our business, it so happens now, because of our limited capacity,