If there is going to be a delay, give us an explanation. Maybe by pushing them we can get that much cleared out of the way.

First of all, is the gentleman from Washington finished? I recognize the gentleman.

Mr. MEEDS. I would be happy to yield to Mr. Young.

Mr. YOUNG. I am in agreement with what the gentlemen are saying. I will get to questions later on, but I do hope that we finance the operation. It goes back to the Forest Service, and the criticism they have there. I just hope that when we make these recommendations and we ask that they be done, that they are also not stingy with dollars and give them the wherewithal to do their job. I know Mr. Seiberling will not be stingy.

Mr. MEEDS. I agree with you. The gentleman from Ohio is known as one of the greatest spendthrifts.

Mr. SEIBERLING. I am one of the greatest economizers. I always vote against the defense programs. [Laughter.]

Mr. MEEDS. First of all, Mr. Huntington, allow me to compliment you on your testimony. I find it difficult to conceive of any more graphic testimony about the problems created by conveyance of this land in a timely fashion. It is too bad we cannot put this on a big sheet and put it in front of Guy Martin so he would have to look at it every morning before he starts his day and think about all those expenses he had to go through to get that school.

It is just very good testimony, the kind that certainly impresses me. And I am sure the rest of the committee.

If this is a matter of your knowledge, is there a lack of personnel on the part of BLM? Do they not have the personnel to deal with this problem?

Mr. HUNTINGTON. The personnel, maybe not. It could be a little bit of everything. I really do not know. I am just supposing here. It could be a thing of priorities with BLM. I understand they just examined priorities from Doyon and stating that Doyon did not have prior authorization to land selections. However, the village selections within 11(a), one selection was selected way prior to regional selection.

Mr. MEEDS. As I recall, all were required to be selected sometime in 1973 or 1974.

Mr. HUNTINGTON. And we met the timeframe as required by law. Still, we see no title to the land.

Mr. MEEDS. So, you do not know if it is a matter of a lack of personnel or other matters in BLM.

Mr. HUNTINGTON. I cannot say.

Mr. MEEDS. Again, my compliments for your testimony.

I would also like to note for the record that I hopefully will question closely the people from the Department to determine if they, in fact, need more personnel to move this thing. It is clear that that is not the only reason. It does not take very many personnel to decide that they will go along with conditions subsequent and transfers. That is a policy decision that can be made by one person.

How long it takes to implement that with more alacrity I do not know. But I certainly would be willing to work for more funding and more personnel to accomplish it. I think it is bordering on a scandal.

Mr. SEIBERLING. It does not border, it is a scandal.

Mr. MEEDS. If that is the chairman's terminology, I will go along with it. It is a scandal that we have not worked more quickly on this. I think we here in Congress must take some of the blame. I certainly take some of the blame because I just have not been as aware as I have gotten through this hearing. I want to compliment the chairman for having these hearings.

I have not been aware as much as I should be of the delay, and I think we ought to commit ourselves to making sure that we have done everything we can to move the bureaucracy so that the kind of graphic illustration that this gentleman presents is not neces

sary.

Mr. SEIBERLING. I am certainly in agreement with what the gentleman says. He really put his finger on it. Would the gentleman yield?

Mr. MEEDS. I yield my time.

Mr. SEIBERLING. I would just like to read from the Department of the Interior's latest annual report on the Implementation of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act, as amended:

The survey of four Native village selections awarded to private survey contractors was completed covering 89,540 acres during the period of July 1975 to December 1976. Contracts for the survey of five other village selections involving 1,154,000 acres were awarded to private surveying contractors during the same period. Preparation is underway for contracts for the survey of four more village selections to be done in fiscal year 1977 approximately 1,260,670 acres. These cadastral survey contracts are obtained through standard departmental policies and Federal procurement regulations.

Since the inception of the survey program, 53 village surveys have been completed out of the 218 required. Twenty-nine village surveys have been scheduled for fiscal year 1977, using both Bureau of Land Management crews and private contract

crews.

Now, with the lackadaisical participation that this indicates, it is small wonder that Secretary Martin found it difficult to make any commitments as to when they expect to be completed with the actual fee title transfer. But it does seem to me that this indicates no conception of the problem of the kind that Mr. Huntington has laid out, and no prioritizing or their program so as to solve the immediate problems first and then go on and try to move it to the larger problems quite apart from the lackadaisical approach to the entire problem.

So I think the gentleman made a good point.

Mr. MEEDS. It may be necessary for some of us to try to gain some initiative by providing additional funds and earmarking them for specific things in the supplemental appropriations.

Mr. SEIBERLING. I would like to ask the staff to explore without further ado with the Department exactly what their problem is, what their funding is, and if necessary, we should do exactly what Mr. Huntington has indicated. I would thing that with the kind of record we are building here we perhaps could have success. I recognize the gentleman from Alaska.

Mr. YOUNG. Along those lines, I also would like to have the staff ask them if they see any real reason why they cannot expedite the process. If it is necessary, we can write legislation to remedy the whole problem.

Mr. SEIBERLING. It would take them at least 1 month to study whether they have those problems.

Mr. YOUNG. Your testimony is excellent, and we are all here patting everybody on the back. It is to the point, that I would like to make a suggestion. If you could, provide for us in your area instances where schools, or in your case, like your house, actually occurred, and what the effects are on the community. I know Galena, and I know it gets flooded. You are further down the river. But there are instances where the effect upon lack of being able to finance houses, HUD houses, PHS, et cetera-if you could provide that, I am sure your attorney can or you can give us information yourself.

Mr. HUNTINGTON. We will be happy to do that.

Mr. YOUNG. Second, you did not bring this up, but maybe I should not bring it up. Also, we have another additional problem concerning the Claims Act, and that is concerning the now possible decision of IRS affecting the corporations. I know you have your attorney in the room. If he would like to answer this, it would be helpful to me. It is my understanding that IRS now is going to come down with a directive that your investment, which you are able to do in exploratory work, et cetera, is to be-I use the term "capitalization of taxes," et cetera, which means a considerable amount of money on a corporation right now that has no real economic base. Could you touch on that vocally or with written testimony? This is not only in your appropriation, but with all appropriations.

Mr. HUNTINGTON. I would like to call on our attorney.

We will submit it in writing to the committee.

Mr. YOUNG. If I may, I have noticed that again, if IRS gets its way then this is another broken commitment, and it will be very difficult for the corporations to continue under their decision. This does not mean income, but investments.

Mr. SEIBERLING. This committee has no jurisdiction over IRS, but as individual members we can certainly pursue that matter.

Mr. YOUNG. We may not have jurisdiction over IRS, but if there is a method by which we can somehow alleviate present pressure on this legislation, I think that that can be done under the jurisdiction of this committee. We will look at it.

Mr. SEIBERLING. I do not know, possibly. We might end up getting into a jurisdictional hassle with the Ways and Means Commit

tee.

ny.

Does staff have any questions?

Mr. CRANDELL. No.

Mr. SEIBERLING. Mr. Huntington, we thank you for your testimo

Mr. HUNTINGTON. I thank you for the opportunity.

Mr. SEIBERLING. I could go on with the hearing further this afternoon, but the strip-mining conference report probably will be coming up on the floor in a few minutes, hopefully. I want to be present because I have some questions to ask of the chairman. I have spent 8 years working on that bill, and I do not want to miss the last part of it.

This subcommittee will recess this hearing until 9:45 tomorrow morning at which time we will reconvene in this room.

[Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m. the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 9:45 a.m., Friday, July 22, 1977.]

INCLUSION OF ALASKA LANDS IN NATIONAL PARK, FOREST, WILDLIFE REFUGE, AND

WILD AND SCENIC RIVERS SYSTEMS

FRIDAY, JULY 22, 1977

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON GENERAL OVERSIGHT

AND ALASKA LANDS,

COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND Insular Affairs,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. John F. Seiberling (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. SEIBERLING. The Subcommittee on General Oversight and Alaska Lands will come to order.

This morning we will commence our hearings by asking Mr. Willie Hensley, secretary of the board of directors of NANA Corp. and president of the NANA Development Corp., to take the witness stand.

Mr. Hensley, we very much appreciate your being here this morning, and we look forward to hearing your testimony. Mr. Young is away at the dentist this morning, but will be here after he has finished his dentist appointment. In the meantime we will ask you to proceed.

Do you have a prepared statement?

STATEMENT OF WILLIE HENSLEY, SECRETARY, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, NANA, INC.; AND PRESIDENT, NANA DEVELOPMENT CORP.

Mr. HENSLEY. Yes, I do.

Mr. SEIBERLING. Do you wish to read it or would you like to have it in the record and proceed extemporaneously?

Mr. HENSLEY. I would like to read it. It is very short.

Mr. SEIBERLING. Fine. You may do so.

Mr. HENSLEY. I also have a presentation that I am carrying for others that I would like to place in the record.

Mr. SEIBERLING. Could you identify the "they"?

Mr. HENSLEY. Mr. Byron Mallott, president of the Alaska Federation of Natives.

Mr. SEIBERLING. Without objection, that will be included in the record.

Mr. HENSLEY. And I also have the statement from the president of the Bristol Bay Native Corp., Harold Samuelson.

Mr. SEIBERLING. Without objection, that will also be included in the record.