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Mr. NELSON. The highest one was $4,800. The employee died, and we did not replace him.

Mr. THURSTON. In separating an employee from the service, when you take one, we will say, of a certain grade, if that certain person wanted to stay at a reduction, would he be given the privilege of doing that, or would he go out and a person of a somewhat lower grade, with lesser experience, be retained?

Mr. JUMP. I think that could be answered by this statement of policy. In effecting the reductions that have had to be made, we have tried to be as considerate as possible and to remember always the human character of the element that we are dealing with, and wherever it was possible to do so we have found places for people dropped.

Mr. THURSTON. For instance, take someone who has been employed, we will say, for 15 years. You find that you can get along without his services; whereas that same person may be trained and fully conversant with the duties assigned to a person, we will say, who has been in the service 10 years. Would you drop the person with 10 years' experience or the person with 15 years' experience?

Mr. JUMP. You mean that the two men would be equally interchangeable on the work?

Mr. THURSTON. Yes. Dr. STOCKBERGER. We have had several cases where the services of the man with the shorter experience have been finally terminated and a man with longer experience has taken his place. That is done wherever it is possible.

Mr. NELSON. Other things being equal, the man with the longer service would be retained, under the President's rule for separations from the service.

ELIMINATION OF POSITION OF DIRECTOR OF REGULATORY WORK

Mr. Sandlin. It is apparent that you have dropped the office of Director of Regulatory Work.

Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir,

Mr. SANDLIN. How did you find out that you did not need a position of that kind?

Mr. JUMP. Mr. Campbell has held that position since it was first created in the early 1920's. In that time there has been considerable reorganization of the regulatory work of the Department, and Mr. Campbell himself has been anxious for the past 4 years to get back to the place where he could devote his full time to exclusive direction of the food and drug laws. Shortly before the beginning of the year he requested, and the Secretary approved, that he be allowed to relinquish this work and go back to the Food and Drug Administration, and it was decided simply not to make any appointment. It is one of the ways of meeting the financial situation.

Mr. SINCLAIR. Then this regulatory work is not being done?

Mr. Jump. It is being done, but there is not any one individual in the Secretary's office who has exclusive direction of regulatory work. It comes up through the bureau channels the same as other types of work.

Mr. SINCLAIR. Is it spread out over different bureaus?

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Mr. JUMP. It has been so all along. It has been in the different bureaus all along, wherever the various laws were assigned for administration or enforcement. The Director of Regulatory Work was serving as a kind of clearing house. In case you wanted to come down and appeal from some ruling, you might go the the Director of Regulatory Work, if you did not want to go to the bureau chief, and he would call upon the bureau chief and get all sides of the case. That has been eliminated. If it is a matter that is under Doctor Mohler, it is taken up with him; if it is a matter relating to food and drugs, it will go directly to Mr. Campbell; and if you do not like the way they are handling it, you appeal to the Secretary and the Assistant Secretary, and it is handled as best we can. Of course, the solicitor also has considerable to do with the regulatory work, as all legal matters are passed upon by that office.

Mr. SINCLAIR. Then, of course, the work is really going on just as efficiently as heretofore?

Mr. JUMP. Oh, yes. It did not affect the continuation of the work. It was just one official serving as a central clearing house for administration of the regulatory laws, and the position has been eliminated. Considerable reorganization of the regulatory work has taken place since the position was created and of course in being occupied by Mr. Campbell the work was handled by probably the most capable administrator of such work in the Government. The question of whether the plan of having a departmental director for such work is entirely an efficient plan, involves some important points about which there are many varying opinions.

Mr. NELSON. Shall I continue, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. SANDLIN. Yes.

TRANSFER OF EMPLOYEES

Mr. NELSON. The next item is an apparent increase of $9,435 as the result of the transfer to this appropriation, with a corresponding reduction in the appropriation of the Bureau of Agricultural Economics, of five employees engaged in the regulatory activities under the Perishable Agricultural Commodities Act.

NEW POSITIONS

An increase, on the 90 percent salary basis, of $11,340 to provide for an Under Secretary and a private secretary to that official Secretary Wallace has already spoken with regard to that.

An increase of $2,268, on a 90 percent salary basis, to provide for two additional telephone operators. In the fiscal year 1933 we dropped two telephone operators in anticipation of the economies that would be effected by the introduction of the automatic telephone system, but now, as this chart evidences, we have gone beyond our ability to handle the situation, not only in that the number of calls to be handled has increased materially, but because the office hours have been so greatly extended that it is necessary for us to make a proportionate increase in the period during which the switchboard is open.

We have some complaints about the Department's telephone seryice. I believe that our girls are working harder than any other operators in the city of Washington in an effort to keep up with this

situation, because it is unprecedented. This does not give you the whole picture, because we cannot produce all of the figures. We cannot tell how many incoming calls are received, because there is no numerical count; and the business between the various departments is not recorded here, because we use, so far as possible, tie lines which involve no expense to the Department other than rental, but I think that statement is a very fair explanation of our situation as regards the telephone service.

LANGUAGE CHANGES

Then there are the changes in language--the one to provide for the Under Secretary of Agriculture; the other to permit the deletion of the authority previously provided for cleaning and guarding the buildings. Under the terms of this Executive order the Department will now no longer need such authority.

Then there is the change in the salary phraseology, in order to make ours conform to the other appropriations.

There is a reduction of $3,600 in the authorization for allowances for fuel, quarters, light, and heat for employees stationed abroad.

Mr. JUMP. That will be explained when the Bureaus of Agricultural Economics and Entomology appear. This is just the authorization for the use of the appropriations as provided by law.

COMPENSATION, MECHANICAL SHOPS AND POWER PLANT Mr. SANDLIN. This next item "Compensation, mechanical shops and power plant”, is the one that is eliminated?

Mr. Nelson. That is the one that we propose to completely eliminate. The following statement is submitted for the record: Appropriation, 1932.

$125, 000 Appropriation, 1933

125, 000 Appropriation, 1934.

120, 960 Estimated obligations, 1934.

112, 166 Budget estimate, 1935.

Decrease, Budget 1935, compared with estimated obligations, 1934 --- 112, 166

Vote: The complete abandonment of this appropriation is recommended. Under the provisions of Executive Order No. 6166, of June 10, 1933, the responsibility for the administration of all buildings and reservations in Washington, D.C., previously under the jurisdiction of the Department, was transferred to the Department of the Interior. In accordance with the terms of the order, the funds required for the performance of the necessary work were also transferred. In the interests of economy and efficient business administration the transfer of the funds available for obligation during the fiscal year 1934, as indicated below, is recommended in order to permit the complete elimination of this appropriation.

In making the transfer to the Department of the Interior, it proved impractical to separate the personnel engaged in strictly building maintenance operations as differentiated from those performing work ordered by the branches of the Department in connection with its scientific and technical laboratories and other miscellaneous mechanical work not classed as building maintenance. Assurance has been obtained from the officials responsible that the organization will be maintained by the Department of the Interior and that services required by this Department will be performed as heretofore. Difficulties are not anticipated in the performance of nontechnical operations, but it is possible that the more exacting requirements of the laboratory and research work may necessitate direct contact with the bureau personnel, in which event it may become necessary to reestablish a central shop organization in the Department of Agriculture for the performance of necessary work not classed as building maintenance.

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Obligated:
Salaries, as per schedules and detailed project

statement on p. 11, committee print, including
$86,856 transferred during 1934 to Interior De-
partment for building maintenance, pursuant

to Executive Order No. 6166, of June 10, 1933... $95, 888 $112, 166 Unobligated: Salary reduction..

11, 702 Working funds reduction.

17, 410 Total appropriation.

125, 000 120, 960

1 - $112, 166

8,794

1-$120.960

! This reduction of $120,960 below the appropriation for 1934 consists of: Impoundment of 633 percent of 15 percent pay cut..

-- $8,794 Funds transferred to other appropriations.

- 112, 166

-120. 960 ? The reduction of $112,166 in working funds for 1935 is recommended in order to permit the complete elimination of this appropriation as follows:

(a) Reduction of $89,237, for the transfer of the elevator service ($35,190), the power plant ($29,563), and the maintenance of buildings ($24, 484), to the Department of the Interior, pursuant to Executive Order No. 6166, of June 10, 1933.

(6) Reduction of $16,294, for the transfer of the funds required for the motor transport service and con. sulting engineer, to the appropriation “Salaries, office of the Secretary."

(c) Reduction of $6,635, and the transfer of this amount to the appropriation "Miscellaneous expenses." The Department of the Interior plans to continue the operation of the mechanical shops on the previously established basis of reimbursement at actual cost for work performed. The amount indicated is required to permit reimbursement to that Department for necessary job work performed for the office of the Secre. tary, not classified as building administration.

Mr. Nelson (continuing): This appropriation formerly provided for the maintenance of buildings, the operation of elevators, the operation of the power plant, and the operation of the motor-transport service. All but the latter have been transferred to the Department of the Interior, and we are recommending the transfer of the amount necessary for the motor-transport service to "Salaries, Office of the Secretary”, in order to simplify our bookkeeping problems and permit the complete elimination of this appropriation.

There is a situation, however, in connection with the shop work that perhaps needs another note. Over a period of years the mechanical shops have been developed not only as a building maintenance organization, but also to perform a lot of needed work for the technical organizations of the Department. When this Executive order came out, we attempted to subdivide the employees and separate those who were engaged in strictly maintenance functions from those who were engaged on these technical and laboratory operations for the bureaus, but we found that it was impossible; so we have transferred the entire organization to the Department of the Interior, and have received from the officials of that Department assurance that they will maintain our shop organization as heretofore.

We have every reason to believe that we will be able to work under that arrangement, but it is possible that changes might take place in the Department or in the Department of the Interior that would make it necessary for us to have some mechanics for the strictly technical and scientific work in the bureaus within our own jurisdiction. At present, however, the entire personnel is under the jurisdiction of the Department of the Interior.

Reductions in this appropriation include: $89,237 transferred to Interior, $16,294 to "Salaries, Office of the Secretary', and $6,635 to *Miscellaneous expenses”, to provide for the purchase of materials from the Department of the Interior. That completely eliminates the amounts heretofore provided.

MISCELLANEOUS EXPENSES, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE Mr. SANDLIN. The next item is for miscellaneous expenses, Department of Agriculture:

For stationery, blank books, twine, paper, gum, dry goods, soap, brushes, brooms, mats, oils, paints, glass, lumber, hardware, ice, furniture, carpets, and mattings; for freight, express charges, advertising and press clippings, telegraphing, telephoning, postage, washing towels; for the maintenance, repair, and operation of not to exceed 3 (including 1 for the Secretary of Agriculture, 1 for general utility needs of the entire Department, and 1 for the Forest Service) and purchase and exchange of 1 motor-propelled passenger-carrying vehicle, at a net cost of not to exceed $3,000, and 1 motorcycle for official purposes only; for the payment of the Department of Agriculture's proportionate share of the expense of the dispatch agent in New York; for official traveling expenses, including examination of estimates for appropriations in the field for any bureau, office, or service of the Department; and for other miscellaneous supplies and expenses not otherwise provided for and necessary for the practical and efficient work of the Department, which are authorized by such officer as the Secretary may designate, $115,048: Provided, That the Secretary of Agriculture, during the fiscal year 1935, may maintain stocks of stationery, supplies, equipment, and iniscellaneous materials sufficient to meet, in whole or in part, requirements of the bureaus and offices of the Department in the city of Washington and elsewhere, but not to exceed in the aggregate, $200,000 in value at the close of the fiscal year, and the appropriations made for such bureaus and offices for such stocks shall be available to reimburse the appropriation for miscellaneous expenses current at the time supplies are issued: Provided further, That the appropriations made hereunder shall be available for the payment of salaries of employees engaged in purchasing, storing, handling, packing, or shipping of supplies and blank forms, and the amount of such salaries shall be charged proportionately as a part of the cost of supplies issued, and in the case of blank forms and supplies not purchased from this appropriation the amount of such salaries shall be charged proportionately to the proper appropriation: Provided further, That the facilities of the central storehouse of the Department shall to the fullest extent practicable be used to make unnecessary the maintenance of separate bureau storehouse activities in the Department: Provided further, That a separate schedule of Srpenditures, transfers of funds, or other transactions hereunder shall be included in the annual Budget.

Mr. NELSON. We offer the following statement in connection with this item: Appropriation: 1932

$289, 200 1933.

190, 000 1934

267, 254

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Extimated obligation », 1934.
Budget estimate, 1935.-

267, 254 115, 048

Decrease, Budget 1935, compared with estimated obligations,

1934..

152, 206

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