MAINTAINING THE CONTINUITY OF PROJECTS

Mr. VAUGHN. One of the very first questions that is asked when an overseas staff is programing a replacement group is the question, is a replacement needed in this village or in this project. We try to be realistic about it and we do a little experimentation. In Colombia the first group that went in the fall of 1961 was not completely replaced after 2 years. Instead, certain villages did not receive a second volunteer to see what would happen, to see if any of the projects that were initiated would continue. It is a rather subjective thing. I suspect we do not know as much about it as we should.

Mrs. HANSEN. Don't you think this is important because if you have started a successful program, for example, a cooperative, and it is going along smoothly, then if a volunteer leaves and for some reason, either through lack of training, lack of initiative, lack of interest, or lack of managerial know-how it fails, can't it then become a reflection on the United States inasmuch as it could well be said, "They came down here, started something and didn't care what happened." Turning to the Indian populations. In our own Nation, Indian agents came and went. Some were good, some bad. Programs started, a presidential term ran out or there were transfers and so on; programs were never finished. The only things ever finished were the Indians because they seemed to get poorer and poorer. Therefore, it seems to me where we have the matter of a total intangible written into this, that it is a vital matter of good will to give them the feeling we have a continuing interest.

I am sure there are many places where there has been the impetus and they are ready to go by themselves, but even the most competent sometime like to know that interest is maintained and sustained. Perhaps there are places that you might want to offer advice as you go along, particularly as new steps are taken.

Mr. VAUGHN. Yes.

Mrs. HANSEN. For example, with the Andean culture you had to almost start from nothing in many instances. This is particularly true in Peru where Indians come into the cities not even speaking the language.

The objective, I assume, of the Peace Corps, is exactly like the AID mission the betterment of conditions in such a way that there is a place for the underprivileged in their own environment so it is not necessary to move into city slums. Isn't that part of the goal? Mr. VAUGHN. Yes, ma'am.

Mrs. HANSEN. That you better make living attractive enough in their own environment?

Mr. VAUGHN. That is right. I think that is a very strong point, Mrs. Hansen. I agree with it fully.

PACIFIC TRUST TERRITORY PROJECT

Mrs. HANSEN. Mr. Vaughn, I agree that the trust territories is one place where the Peace Corps can do an excellent job. One of the problems there has been recruitment of teachers. Distance and living conditions has created an inability to get enough teachers. Mr. VAUGHN. The isolation.

Mrs. HANSEN. Yes; the isolation. I think this is one place where you might be tempted to put some of your foreign volunteers, but here could possibly be a good place to inject a note of caution. (Discussion off the record.)

Mrs. HANSEN. My best wishes on the trust territory operation.
Mr. VAUGHN. Thank you.

Mrs. HANSEN. Are you working with the Department of Interior? Mr. VAUGHN. We are working hand in glove with them all the way through.

Mrs. HANSEN. For example, some of the lacks you are going to find are classrooms, books, facilities for teachers' living quarters. Also, a major problem will be to help develop the economy, for this is one of their substantial needs. I have forgotten what their level of per capita income is, but it is tremendously low.

Mr. VAUGHN. I understand it has declined in the past 10 years. Mrs. HANSEN. It has. There is little to the economy there. Fishing has not developed. Perhaps they need more canneries. Certainly, more market development. I know the Office of Territories is interested in raising the economic level. Only in the past 4 years has the Appropriation Committee begun to meet the goals set with money for schools and a developing economy.

Mr. VAUGHN. One of the problems that we would face and have faced in the past, and that we would face if we began to move more into the economic aid field, is the need for funds and capital assistance to make these projects go. If the Department of Interior were willing to supply the bricks and mortar and some of the other backup material needed, then I do not see any problems going into economic-type projects, like fishing, canning, and all the rest.

Mrs. HANSEN. I do hope the Office of Territories will work with you on some of these needs and perhaps present to the Interior Subcommittee on Appropriations next year budgetary items at least for some experimental work in fisheries development.

Mr. VAUGHN. Excellent.

Mrs. HANSEN. And in marketing work.

Mr. VAUGHN. We would find these programs very helpful, I am

sure.

Mrs. HANSEN. The major need is to begin to build a stable and developing economy.

Mr. VAUGHN. Apparently there is virtually no private investment from the outside.

Mrs. HANSEN. Very few. These islands have been, as you know, in a number of ownerships and no one of the ownerships ever finished a job.

CHAD PROJECTS

Mrs. HANSEN. In Chad you say volunteers will serve in programs of education, health, and agriculture.

Are any of them serving in transportation development?

Mr. VAUGHN. We have not programed any in this field for Chad. Mrs. HANSEN. Two years ago several women members of the Chad Parliament were in Washington-and as you know, Chad is landlocked.

Mr. VAUGHN. Yes, I do.

Mrs. HANSEN. And they stated that one of their major needs was highways.

Mr. VAUGHN. I am sure that is the case.

Mrs. HANSEN. Not much can be done for an economy, until there is transportation. Are we participating in any way? I think in many instances in underdeveloped countries and correct me if I am wrong that unskilled labor is available, but what you do not have are people for foremen or supervisors?

Mr. VAUGHN. Yes.

Mrs. HANSEN. Isn't this one of your problems?

Mr. VAUGHN. Yes, that is one of our key entrees in many areas.

PUERTO RICAN TRAINING CENTERS

Mrs. HANSEN. How much do we spend per year for our Puerto Rican and Virgin Islands training centers? How many trainees do we have there?

Mr. VAUGHN. I am not sure of these figures, Congresswoman. We have recently decided to expand substantially our Virgin Islands program. The capacity will be more than doubled, in fact.

Mrs. HANSEN. Do you want to put that in the record?

Mr. KANDLE. Yes, I can.

It is $2,338,000.

Mrs. HANSEN. Per year?

Mr. KANDLE. For 1967.

Mrs. HANSEN. How much did you spend in 1966?

Mr. KANDLE. $2,173,000 for 1966 training in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.

Mrs. HANSEN. How many did we train there?

Mr. KANDLE. 900, or we will train 900.

Mrs. HANSEN. How does this compare with the training centers of the Job Corps?

Mr. KANDLE. I do not know.

Mrs. HANSEN. Why don't you find out and put that in the record so we may have a comparable figure. I think it might be interesting. (The information follows:)

JOB CORPS/PEACE CORPS TRAINEE COSTS

According to information supplied by the Office of Economic Opportunity, the average direct cost of providing training, including allowances, to a Job Corpsman from the inception of the program to December 31, 1965, has been approximately $740 per trainee per month. The overall average cost of providing training to a Peace Corps Volunteer is expected to be $805 per trainee per month in fiscal 1966. The figures are, however, not easily comparable because of the widely different types of training and supervision provided in the two programs, and because of substantial differences in methods of accounting for overhead and capital costs, and in the types of items included in the training cost accounts.

DIRECT TRAINING COSTS

Mrs. HANSEN. I visited one Job Corps center this fall conducted by the Forest Service which cost $4,000 per person for training which averaged about nine and a half or ten months. They are turning out people to enter various phases of industry, some truckdrivers, some in the forest industry, and so on. Therefore, I think it might be

interesting to get from the Poverty Corps an average of what they are spending so we could compare it.

Mr. KANDLE. Our costs in direct training are $2,414 per trainee in 1966 and we estimate $2,338 per trainee in 1967. So they are much less than $4,000.

Mrs. HANSEN. Please call up Mr. Shriver and see what he has for a national average.

Mr. VAUGHN. You said 9 months, did you not?

Mrs. HANSEN. It was between 9 and 10 months.
Mr. VAUGHN. Ours averages about 3 months.

Mrs. HANSEN. That is why I think it would be interesting to have the cost record. Figures do not lie, you know. It is amazing sometimes how much you can prove with figures. Did you know that we spend approximately $11 billion a year, State, local, and Federal just to take care of juvenile delinquents and youthful criminals under age 25? It costs $3,000 to $5,000 per year per bed in a custodial institution for these "bad boys" of our Nation.

Mr. VAUGHN. How much?

Mrs. HANSEN. $3,000 average per year. Figures are very exciting, believe me.

PARTNERSHIP EXCHANGE PROGRAM

On page 69, in this proposed partnership exchange program, in the summer of 1967 approximately 100 foreign students from various colleges and universities would be programed into community action work. What kind of community action, where, and who is making the determination as to these programs?

Mr. VAUGHN. Sally Bowles is our expert on that. Would you like to answer that?

Miss BOWLES. On the summer programs for foreign students we have not really fully investigated the opportunities for a 2-month or 10-week program. However, there are a number of requests which have come in.

Mrs. HANSEN. Such as?

Miss BOWLES. There have been requests for Appalachia volunteer workers, to work in communities in Appalachia in remedial reading programs, Headstart programs, a whole variety of programs that operate during summer including camp work for underprivileged people.

EXCHANGE VOLUNTEERS ON INDIAN RESERVATIONS

Mrs. HANSEN. On the proposal to use the young people on Indian reservations

Mr. VAUGHN. That was just for example.

Mrs. HANSEN. Again, I think this is a poor example, for some of our Indian reservations are quite as bad as an Andes village, and I think the new Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Mr. Bennett, ought to be given at least 2 years to see what he can do.

Repeating again what the Indians' major needs are, one, jobs; two, conservation programs, such as reforestation and fisheries, jobs, housing, sewage, water, health, and so on. I don't see how it could possibly benefit a foreign country or the United States for them to work on an Indian reservation at this stage.

There are successful programs of VISTA volunteers, but these are your own young people, and we are not exhibiting to the world our failure to deal decently with a very sizable segment of our own population. I don't think we would have an ounce of influence left in India if some young Hindu came over here and visited one of my western Indian reservation and saw what the United States has not been doing for almost a hundred years.

As in the Andes villages where no Spanish is spoken, we have hundreds of Indian people who do not yet speak English and who are not able to move into the mainstream of American society because of this; neither do they have any training for jobs and employment. In some cases the sole outlook and sole hope has been a relief program. The Secretary of the Interior has now embarked on a new imaginative Indian program in the United States, and I do hope the Commissioner of Indian Affairs is given time enough to put this on the track and show some accomplishments.

Mr. VAUGHN. I share your view up to a point. However, my interpretation is that there are "Indian reservations" all over the world. They are where pockets of society which for various reasons have not been able to be integrated into the larger

Mrs. HANSEN. There isn't any excuse for us.

Mr. VAUGHN. There isn't for a lot of countries. But I think, of all the problems that you mentioned, the most important problem has been the one of attitude on the part of our Government. It is the patronizing approach that was used, and it has been the opposite of the Peace Corps approach. I think if we open up and let our people move in and

Mrs. HANSEN. I think maybe you could take young people from some areas, since they have some similar problems.

Mr. VAUGHN. Surely.

Mrs. HANSEN. But this program needs good judgment and commonsense. I can see a tremendous opportunity for an exchange of language teaching, for example.

There has been an increasing number of Indian young people who are interested in Job Corps programs, youth and community action programs, and we do not want to see any one of these opportunities abolished for them, yet programs have now been cut on our reservations, programs that should never be cut because these were to be used to keep young people busy during summers with forward looking programs. I would hate to see us take more money, unless thoughtfully done, away from these programs already established.

Mr. VAUGHN. Madam Congresswoman, would you be reluctant to see foreign volunteers work in the worst of our urban slums for the same reason you have against their working in the Indian reservations?

Mrs. HANSEN. Not necessarily, because you don't have the same problem. There is a problem rather hard to explain to the average person, as to why the Indians are on reservations, and why they have been kept there so long, and why the Government has been in charge so many years. A slum area didn't necessarily come about because of the Government plopping somebody there. However every Indian is on a reservation because the U.S. Government put him there.

For example areas in reservations with good fishing streams were overlogged, supposedly, under the supervision of the Bureau of In