done to the weak counties by the powerful ones. If the large counties received their full amount of representation ought they to complain? He should think not. It was said if five members more be given to the small counties, they should be so distributed as to take them from the other counties, and that one half should be given to the North, and the other to the East and West. But it was not possible that the interest of any county could be endangered by a general increase of five representatives. It was clear beyond controversy that the balance of power would be great enough on the side of the populous counties, which would have one hundred members against five. He contended that every contiguous interest would be subserved; that the ties of a common, general policy, and the bonds of friendly feeling would be strengthened, by the adoption of the principle he desired to introduce; while no danger or inconvenience could result to any part of the Commonwealth. The principle which he advocated, had been carried out, not only in Pennsylvania, but in the General Government. Suppose, in reference to representation in Congress, it was to be required that there should be a basis of 232,000 to give two Senators, and 116,000 to give one Senator, what would be the result? Applying the principle to the rates of population, five States of the Union would have but one Senator each, and four of the States would have no Senator. For the purpose of uniting the different branches, if they were allowed to incorporate, why not give just proportions to each, in every section of the Commonwealth? Inasmuch as his proposition would be doing the populous counties no injury, for the purpose of establishing a system founded on principles of abstract justice, let them come forward, and express their willingness to sanction and adopt it. There was no possibility of danger. There existed a fixed and settled feeling against cutting up old counties for the purpose of making smaller ones, which would prevent any considerable addition from being made to the number of representatives.

The counties which he represented had been unsuccessful in obtaining improvements, and the consequence was, that their population was sparse, but give them the same opportunities of others, and you will see towns grow up as rapidly as in other counties; and how were they to obtain these improvements if their voice cannot be heard in the Halls of the Legislature? He conceived the claims of those counties to a representative each, was founded on justice, and no injustice would be done to any other county by granting them this. From the fact that the counties of Potter and M'Kean have had for some years no Representative in the Legislature, they have but few improvements, not that they are incapable of being improved, but because they were neglected, and turned off, as the unkind mother would turn off her offspring and throw it upon the world to provide for itself. These counties were left to take care of themselves, the fostering hand of the Commonwealth had never supported them, and the sun of Internal Improvements had never shone upon them. They have been neglected by your law makers, and have almost become the Siberia of Pennsylvania, and so must remain until they have an opportunity of having their wants made known to your Legislature. If, then, this Convention can do justice to the people of those counties, he would ask in all seriousness that this justice might be extended to them.

Mr. STERIGERE was decidedly in favor of the principle the gentleman

proposed if he understood it; and he thought it was founded in justice and good policy, and he wished, however, to put it upon still broader grounds. This principle had the sanction of almost every State in the Union; and it also had the sanction of the Constitution of 1790, and of 1776; all the counties then organized, were entitled to a separate representation. He thought, the amendment should cover broader grounds than that proposed by the gentleman; and with this view he submitted the following proposition, as a substitute for the one proposed by the gentleman from M'Kean: "SECTION 4. In the year one thousand eight hundred and thirty-eight, and in every seventh year thereafter, an enumeration of the taxable inhabitants shall be made in such manner as shall be directed by law. The number of the representatives shall at the next session of the Legislature, after making such enumeration, be fixed by the Legislature and apportioned among the city of Philadelphia, and the several counties as nearly as may be, according to the number of taxable inhabitants in each, and shall never be less than eighty, nor more than one hundred. Each county now erected, shall have at least one representative, but no county shall hereafter be erected, unless a sufficient number of taxable inhabitants shall be contained within it to entitle them to one representative, agreeably to the ratio which shall then be established. No two, or more counties shall be connected to form a district, nor shall any county entitled to one representative, or more, be allowed an additional representative on any number of its inhabitants less than one half of the one hun dredth part of all the taxable inhabitants of the Commonwealth ".

Mr. STERIGERE said this amendment proposed an enumeration to be taken in 1838, and he had proposed that time, on the presumption that the Constitution would be adopted in the present year, which they would know before they adjourned, and if it would not be adopted this year, they could change the time. His amendment was more specific than that of the gentleman from M'Kean, inasmuch as it provides for an apportionment to be made on the next year after the enumeration should be made, and it proposed that every county now erected should be entitled to at least one representative. It also provides that no new county shall hereafter be erected, unless it embraces a sufficient representation to entitle it to one representative. At the time the old Constitution was adopted, this would not answer, because of the vast space of territory comprised in some of the counties. This, however, was not the case now. It would also have a tendency to guard against abuses arising from fractional parts of representation which may exist in some of the counties. Without further remark, he would submit it to the committeê, trusting that it would be adopted.

Mr. HAMLIN thought the proposition he had suggested covered the whole ground. With regard to that part in relation to new counties, he believed a committee had been raised for the express purpose of taking into consideration that subject, and when that committee reported, he thought we could act more understandingly on this subject. With regard to the limitation of representatives to one hundred, he had no idea that it would be adopted by the body, as each one was averse to having the number of representatives in his county reduced. He thanked the gentleman for his suggestion, but he did not think the course proposed would be adopted, because he did not believe that any gentleman would allow

his representation to be cut down. He thought the matter of requiring new counties to have a sufficient representation to entitle them to one representative was correct enough; but he hoped the Convention would first take the question on his proposition, and if that should be rejected, then he would thank the gentleman to bring forward his. He had no objection to the gentleman having his proposition considered, but he trusted the two would be acted upon distinctly and separately.

Mr. STERIGERE said he believed there was a feeling prevailing throughout the whole Convention against increasing the number of representatives, and he himself should always vote against it. He did not apprehend the difficulty of getting gentlemen to support this, from the large counties, and he did not believe any injustice would be done, because the fractions in many of the counties, he considered, would make up for the counties which would be entitled to representatives under this proposition. With relation to that part of the proposition which the gentleman had said could be acted upon hereafter, he had only to say that this was the section to which it appropiately belonged, and if we did not get it through now, he doubted whether we would get it through at all.

Mr. HAMLIN said if the gentleman would increase the number of representatives to one hundred and five, he would accept of it as a modification of his proposition.

Mr. STERIGERE could not do this, because he did not believe it would be sanctioned by either the Convention or the people.

Mr. STEVENS said, although the principle asserted by the gentleman from M'Kean (Mr. HAMLIN) appeared to be perfectly correct, yet he did not take the proper mode to carry it fully into effect. This principle ought to be carried out to the fullest extent, but he did not think it was possible to increase the number of representatives. He believed with the gentleman from Montgomery, that there was a decided feeling against this increase; and he believed the House of Representatives was sufficiently numerous, and ought not to be increased. He would, therefore, suggest to the gentlemen, whether it would not be more just to the small counties and the whole people of the State, that the representatives in the new counties should be increased, and that some of the over-grown counties should be diminished. In a representative body like that of the House of Representatives, there were other interests to be represented besides numerical strength. It was true, that every person paying a tax ought to be represented, but it did not follow, nor was it true in principle, that representation ought to be in proportion to taxation. Every person paying a tax should have some person to represent him, but as in the county of Philadelphia, he did not think they should be represented either according to numbers or to property. That wide spread communities should have a representative he admitted to be correct, but in order to effect this object older communities should not have a repretation in proportion. He would, therefore, suggest to the gentleman from M'Kean, to modify his amendment so as to leave the number of Representatives as they stand, at present, and providing that each county have at least one, and that no city or county should have more than six. This would more effectually protect the interests of the farming classes from the influence of those large manufacturing towns and commercial cities, which is being exerted so unjustly in this Commonwealth.

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If, however, the proposition of the gentleman from M'Kean was adopted, you have an increase of four or five representatives in addition to your present representation, and at the same time you will increase the representation of the city and county of Philadelphia. Their representation will be increased, and to that extent will you take

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from some of the agricultural counties the representation they ought to have; you take then from the farming counties five representatives, and you give to the single county of Philadelphia three additional representatives. He was in favor of giving to each of the counties one representative; but by this amendment, you take one representative from the county of Washington, one from the county of Lancaster, one from the county of Chester, one from the county of Dauphin, one from the county of Beaver, and one from the county of Adams. Now, he conceived that there was no justice in this, because the interests of those large cities might be directly contrary to the interests of the people of the State generally, and in some instances might be fatal to them. It cannot be denied by any one, that no matter how the members of the city and county of Philadelphia stand as to democracy or aristocracy, no matter how hostile they may be on any question of party politics, the moment they come into the House of Representatives, and get officers elected, that moment you hear no more of party on any question in which the interests of that city are concerned, but they go fifteen votes in a solid phalanx, for every measure which will benefit Philadelphia in the least. Any gentleman who would take the trouble to turn to the records of the Legislature, would be convinced of the truth of this assertion. With them it is all city of Philadelphia, and no considerations of party can separate them from their common interests; it is not human nature that they should be separated from them, as every man is apt to stand by his own interests. When it became necessary to build up a system of internal improvements for the benefit of that great metropolis, we find the members from the city and county of Philadelphia voting against every proposition to remove obstructions from the Susquehanna ; aye, almost voting to make it a penal offence to clear a channel in that noble river, for fear that some persons would prefer carrying their produce down it to Baltimore, in preference to carrying it across the mountain on horseback to Philadelphia. The city and county of Philadelphia have now nearly the one sixth of the whole representation of the State, and adding to this their plausibility of manner and profession, and the other influences they can bring to their aid, they can pass almost any measure they please in the Legislature, no matter how injuriously it may operate upon any other portion of the State. Allow that city and county to retain the one sixth part of the representatives, which they now have, and in a short time they will have a majority, because you will shortly have great cities in the West, Pittsburgh and Erie, which will support the interests of Philadelphia, and these three counties will control the whole State. In a large commercial and manufacturing place like Philadelphia, they can increase their representation to any extent by increasing their commercial interests, but in an agricultural community this could not be done, as it required a large space to carry on its operations, and these operations tended directly to increase the population of your cities. Then these populous districts should not be entitled to an equal representation with thinly settled com

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munities. Philadelphia only had fifteen representatives now, it was true, but had it not been for a kind of Providential rascality the county of Philadelphia alone would have had eleven representatives, instead of eight, her present number. When the enumeration came to be made of her inhabitants, instead of putting it into the hands of the officers designated by law, the County Commissioners appointed some worn out patriots of the party to make the enumeration, and they made an enumeration of upwards of thirty-one thousand taxable inhabitants, when that county never has polled more than eleven thousand votes, but a little over one third of the number of taxable inhabitants. Now, there never has been a period known when the voters of that county had been much less than three fourths of the whole number of taxable inhabitants. Take any other county, and the proportion will be found to be nearly about three fourths of the whole number of taxable inhabitants. The enumeration which was to be taken under the law of 1820-21, was to be an enumeration of all the taxable inhabitants above the age of twenty-one years; and the enumeration which was made of those taxables, exceeded by some thousands the enumeration of all the taxable inhabitants, when it was well known that it should always be some thousa:ds less. The enumeration of all the taxable inhabitants generally exceeded the enumeration of taxa ble inhabitants above the age of twenty-one about one fourth, but in the enumeration which was made in the county of Philadelphia, it exceeded the other by about six thousand, as any gentleman could see by a reference to the documents. The septennial assessment made by order of these County Commissioners in the city of Philadelphia, rated the taxables at 18,449, while the triennial assessment made the same year only put them at 14,419. In the county of Philadelphia the septennial assessment rated the taxables at 31,394, while the triennial assessment of the same year only made them 25,159. Besides this, he had frequently heard of frauds being practised at the time of election. Large importations of voters were brought in from New York, and New Jersey. He had frequently heard that votes could be obtained at fifty cents a head, and about that time the steamboats and hotels are crowded with them; indeed, he had heard of about three hundred of them sleeping in a barn the night before the election, and probably they stopped in the city long enough to get a pocket handkerchief a piece washed. He hoped a check would be put upon these frauds, and that the representation of the city and county would be reduced; as this was actually necessary for the protection of the great farming interests of the Commonwealth. He would again appeal to the gentleman from M'Kean, to accept of the modification he had suggested. In fact, he thought the restriction ought to be carried further, so that no city or county should have more than one Senator; because if the Senate became a concurent branch of the Government in all appointments made by the Executive, it was not proper that the city and county of Philadelphia, and one or two over-grown manufacturing counties, should have the appointment of all the Judges and all other officers for the whole State. The small counties have an equal interest in those appointed, and it was but justice that they should be protected. Let it not be said that there was any injustice in this, for it was the very usage practised upon in the Senate of the United States. There each State had two Senators; whereas, if the representation was apportioned as ours iş

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