affairs to laymen, and which is, at present, and career, and made some observations the only security for our religious liberty, which I ought perhaps to answer. But there and a great security for our civil rights. was one which I am particularly desirous This is a point which has scarcely been of noticing, because it was founded on touched upon in this debate, but it is one, what I think he will find that I am correct I believe, gravely affecting the interests of in characterizing as a misconception on the people of this country. Now, the his part and on that of his friends. The hon. right hon. Gentleman has appealed with and learned Gentleman seemed to be ofgreat confidence to what he describes as fended because I described some hon. Genthe sympathy of public opinion with the tlemen in this House as "Romanists." [Sir policy which he recommends. Sir, he is COLMAN O'LOGHLEN: Hear, hear!] And a very bold man who can, off-hand, or an hon. Gentleman who spoke last night without very laborious pains, decide what (Mr. Rearden) said that I had given him a is really, on a subject of this grave import, nickname because I had called him a the public opinion of a country like Eng-Romanist." I certainly had no intention land. It is not to be ascertained in a in using that word, to say anything that moment, because it is not formed in a mo- should be in the least degree offensive; and ment. What public opinion is to most I rather think that the hon. Baronet, individuals is the opinion of the circle in who has literary acquirements and powers which they move; and we in this political of literary research, will find that he is life of ours, who have the advantage under a mistake. I myself have read most of living in at least a considerable circle, of the great writers in magno certamine have some means, no doubt, of ascer- utriusque Ecclesiæ, and I believe I rememtaining what general opinion may be. But ber the time when the word "Romanist we are also apt to be wonderfully warped was first introduced. It was introduced as in our conclusions by the particular sphere a phrase of conciliation, because there is of observations in which we habitually another word which is connected with exist. But I differ, with diffidence, from odious associations, and has been for a long the right hon. Gentleman in his estimate time, with the people of this country, which of the general feeling of the country might describe his creed. When the word on this question. No doubt, if you take " 'Anglican" was introduced early in this rattling articles in newspapers and the debate, adopted for the first time, and reconceited conclusions of coteries as public peated every night in the nature of a coropinion, all is very easy for a public mau, relative expression, it naturally occurred to whether he be a Minister or a Leader me-as I did not choose to avail myself of a of the Opposition. But when questions of word of which I confess I should not be fundamental interest in the Constitution of ashamed were I of that religion-to use the this country arise, it is not in our power to correlative word "Romanist." Therefore I ascertain what the opinion of a nation like can assure the hon. Baronet that no offence England is in such haste and by such su- was meant. I will not refer at any length perficial means. I believe that the supre- to the observations he has made upon a macy of the Sovereign is a doctrine deeply statement with which I closed my remarks fixed in the convictions and in the con- before Easter. I made those remarks adscience of England. The more this subject visedly. It is my belief that there is in is agitated the more that principle will the English Church a party of extreme come to the surface; and it is upon con- opinions, who advocate the disunion of clusions like that, and not upon some Church and State. I was informed by alleged abuses, local abuses of an institu- an authority upon which I place implicit tion, that grave questions of this magnitude credit, that some leading members of that must be finally decided. Sir, I would party had been in habitual communication willingly have sat down this moment only and combination-I never used the word that would be discourteous to an hon. conspiracy, but I will not fight about words and learned Gentleman who spoke early in with those I described as Romanists, and this night's debate, and spoke too at some for the rest of the statement, that they were length. I refer to the hon. Baronet the in open confederacy, I leave the House to Member for Clare (Sir Colman O'Loghlen), judge of it for itself from the late division; who, in an agreeable and clever speech, and when the right hon. Gentleman comes which I may describe as an amiable invec- forward with a new policy, proposing, tive against myself, offered some very rightly or wrongly, a revolution in the severe but courteous comments on my life country, the dissevering of the Church

from the State, and boasts of the majority with which he can carry it into effect, the House must judge whether, under the circumstances, it was unfair for me to say he represented the combination which I described.

SIR FREDERICK HEYGATE said, to save the time of the Committee he would withdraw his Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Main Question put.

The Committee divided:-Ayes 330;

Noes 265 Majority 65.

Evans, T. W.
Ewart, W.
Ewing, H. E. Crum-
Eykyn, R.
Fawcett, H.
Fildes, J.

FitzGerald, rt. hn. Lord
O. A.
Fitz Patrick, rt. hn. J.W.
Foley, 11. W.
Foljambe, F. J. S.
Fordyce, W. D.
Forster, C.
Forster, W. E.

Fortescue, rt. hn. C. S.
Fortescue, hon. D. F.
Foster, W. O.

French, rt. hon. Colonel
Gaselee, Serjeant S.
Gavin, Major

Gibson, rt. hon. T. M.

Gilpin, C.

1676

, Sir J.
Kearsley, Captain R.
Kennedy, T.
King, hon. P. J. L.
Kinglake, A. W.
Kinglake, J. A.
Kingscote, Colonel
Kinnaird, hon. A. F.
Labouchere, H.
Laing, S.

Layard, A. H.

Leader, N. P.

Lamont, J.

Lawrence, W.

Lawson, rt. hon. J. A.

Leatham, E. A.

Leatham, W. H.
Lee, W.

Leeman, G.

Lefevre, G. J. S.

Lewis, H.

Locke, J.

Gladstone, rt. hn. W. E. Lorne, Marquess of

Gladstone, W. H.

Glyn, G. C.

Goldsmid, Sir F. H.
Goldsmid, J.

Goschen, rt. hon. G. J.
Gower, hon. F. L.

Gower, Lord R.

Graham, W.

Gray, Sir J.

Gregory, W. II.

Lowe, rt. hon. R.

Lusk, A.

Maguire, J. F.

McKenna, Sir J. N.

M'Lagan, P.

M'Laren, D.

Marjoribanks, Sir D. C.

Grenfell, H. R.

Greville-Nugent, A. W.

F.

Greville-Nugent, Col.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.
Grosvenor, Earl
Grosvenor, Lord R.
Grosvenor, Capt. R. W.
Grove, T. F.

Gurney, S.

Marshall, W.

Martin, C. W.

Matheson, A.

Melly, G.

Merry, J.

Milbank, F. A.
Mill, J. S.

Miller, W.

Mills, J. R.

Milton, Viscount

Mitchell, A.

Moffatt, G.

Beaumont, II. F.
Beaumont, W. B.
Berkeley, hon. H. F.
Biddulph, M.

Bingham, Lord
Blake, J. A.

Blennerhassett, Sir R.
Bonham-Carter, J.

Bouverie, rt. hon. E. P.
Bowyer, Sir G.
Brady, J.

Brand, rt. hon. H.
Bright, Sir C. T.
Bright, J. (Birmingham)
Bright, J. (Manchester)
Browne, Lord J. T.
Bruce, Lord C.

Bruce, rt. hon. H. A.

Bryan, G. L.

Cowper, hon. H. F.

Cowper, rt. hon. W. F.

Craufurd, E. H. J.
Crawford, R. W.

Crossley, Sir F.

Dalglish, R.

Davey, R.

Davie, Sir H. R. F.
De La Poer, E.
Denman, hon, G.

Dent, J. D.

Dering, Sir E. C.
Devereux, R. J.
Dilke, Sir W.
Dillwyn, L. L.
Dixon, G.

Doulton, F.

Duff, M. E. G.

Mitchell, T. A.

Hadfield, G.

Moncreiff, rt. hon. J.

Hamilton, E. W. T.

Monk, C. J.

Hankey, T.

Hanmer, Sir J.

Hardcastle, J. A.

Monsell, rt. hon. W.

Moore, C.

More, R. J.

Harris, J. D.

Morris, G.

Hartington, Marq. of

Morris, W.

Hay, Lord J.

Morrison, W.

Hay, Lord W. M.

Murphy, N. D.

Hayter, A. D.

Neate, C.

Headlam, rt. hon. T. E. Nicol, J. D.

Henderson, J.

Norwood, C. M.

Heneage, E.

O'Beirne, J. L.

Henley, Lord

Herbert, H. A.

O'Donoghue, The

Hibbert, J. T.

Hodgkinson, G.

Holden, I.

Hodgson, K. D.

Holland, E.

Horsman, rt. hon. E.

Hughes, T.

Butler-Johnstone, H. A. Edwards, C.

Butler, C. S.

Buxton, C.

Edwards, H.

Buxton, Sir T. F.

Eliot, Lord

Calcraft, J. H. M.

Enfield, Viscount

Calthorpe, hn.F.H.W.G.

Candlish, J.

Esmonde, J.

Howard, hon. C. W. G.
Howard, Lord E.

Hurst, R. H.

Hutt, rt. hon. Sir W.
Ingham, R.

Jackson, W.

Erskine, Vice. Ad. J. E. Jardine, R.

O'Brien, Sir P.

Ogilvy, Sir J.

O'Loghlen, Sir C. M.

Onslow, G.

O'Reilly, M. W.

Osborne, R. B.

Otway, A. J.
Owen, Sir H. 0.

Padmore, R.

Paget, T. T.

Pease, J. W.
Peel, A. W.
Peel, J.
Pelham, Lord
Philips, R. N.

Jervoise, Sir J. C.

Platt J.

Hogg, Lt.-Colonel J. M. Parker, Major W.

Thompson, A. G.

Thorold, Sir J. II.

Patten, rt. hon. Col. W. Sykes, C.

Tollemache, J.

altered the relations between the Executive Government and the present House of Commons, placing an emphasis on "the present House of Commons," and proposed the adjournment of the House until MonTrevor, Lord A. E. Hill- day. The appeal for adjournment he could

Torrens, R.

Treeby, J. W.

Turner, C.
Turnor, E.
Vance, J.

Verner, E. W.
Verner, Sir W.
Walcott, Admiral
Walker, Major G. G.
Walpole, rt. hon. S. H.
Walrond, J. W.
Walsh, hon. A.
Warren, rt. hon. R. R.
Waterhouse, S.

Welby, W. E.
Whitmore, H.
Williams, Colonel
Williams, F. M.
Wise, H. C.
Woodd, B. T.
Wyld, J.
Wyndham, hon. H.
Wyndham, hon. P.
Wynn, Sir W. W.
Wynn, C. W. W.
Wynne, W. R. M.
Yorke, J. R.

TELLERS.

Taylor, Colonel
Noel, hon. G. J.

MR. DISRAELI: Sir, the vote at which the Committee has now arrived has altered the relations between Her Majesty's Government and the present House of Commons; it is, therefore, necessary for us to consider our position. I propose, with the permission of the House, to move that the House, at its rising, adjourn until Monday

next.

not resist; but to his perfect astonishment
he had received a message from the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer to the effect that,
although the business of the country was
to be suspended until Monday, the Com-
mittee on the Irish Church would not stand
as the first Order for that Day, but that
it was intended to proceed with the Com-
mittee on Ways and Means. He (Mr.
Gladstone) gave notice, therefore, that he
should move
on Monday next that the
Standing Order which regulated the order.
of proceeding on Monday should be sus-
pended, and that the Order of the Day
for the Committee upon the Established
Church of Ireland should take its place.
He would, however, ask the right hon.
Gentleman, whether it was his intention to
allow the discussion upon the Irish Church
to take precedence of the other business
on Monday?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE-
QUER said, that Ways and Means had
been placed on the Paper in the ordinary
The House could on Monday decide
way.
the adjournment of the House till Monday.
as to the course of business. He moved

MR. CARDWELL said, that, when the arrangement for Committee on Ways and Means, as the first Order on Monday, was tions of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Lancashire would be considered that evening.

made, it was understood that the Resolu

MR. GLADSTONE asked the Chan

cellor of the Exchequer, whether he would

MR. GLADSTONE: I naturally, in common with other Members of the House, regret very sincerely any obstruction or interference with the general course of busi-solutions in Committee being the first Order now assent to the consideration of the Reness; but I cannot possibly object to the Motion made by the responsible Ministers of the Crown under the circumstances of

the case.

MR. DISRAELI then moved that the Chairman report Progress.

House resumed.

Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Monday next.

PARLIAMENT-BUSINESS OF

THE HOUSE.

MR. GLADSTONE said, that some half-hour since, the Prime Minister announced that the vote of the House had

of the Day?

THE APPROPRIATION ACT.

POSTPONEMENT OF MOTION.

THE EARL OF MALMESBURY said, he

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, the BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE-VICTORIAright hon. Gentleman the Member for South Lancashire had exhibited unnecessary excitement. There had been no engagement, and the request made of the House by his right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury was a very natural one under the circumstances.

46

MR. CHILDERS said, he was of opinion that the Irish Church" should be placed as the first Order for Monday.

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE sug. gested that the House were only losing time. It would be easy on Monday after the statement of his right hon. Friend to settle the course of business.

MR. WHITBREAD said, he had not expected to find the Government acting in the manner they were doing.

LORD JOIN MANNERS denied that the Government had done anything wrong in the matter.

VISCOUNT GALWAY said, that the last man who ought to complain of the time of the House being wasted was the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Lancashire.

Motion agreed to.

had to appeal to the noble Lord opposite (Lord Lyveden) who had given notice

"To call the Attention of the House to the Correspondence respecting and arising from the Non-enactment of the Appropriation Act in Victoria and the Recall of the Governor of the Colony,"

to postpone his Motion until some day next week, in consequence of what had taken place last evening in the other House of Parliament.

LORD LYVEDEN said, that although the Motion he intended to submit was not of a party character, he should not hesitate to comply with the noble Earl's request. He should therefore postpone it till Friday next. But at the same time he must express a hope that the noble Duke the Secretary of State for the Colonies would not take any action relating to the subject before the discussion.

THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAM said, he did not think that it would be right for him to give any engagement in reference to the course which he might think fit to

House, at rising, to adjourn till Monday take should any circumstances arise which,

next.

in his opinion, called for the action of the Secretary of State; but he could assure the noble Lord that it was not likely that anything could arise before the discussion which would affect the question in one way or the other. The last mail brought nothing which called for an answer, and he was not aware that it was likely that there would be any communication from the Government to the Colony before the time when this discussion was arranged to come on. With regard to the question itself, he would say that he believed there was not, nor ever had been any difference of opinion between the Government and the noble Lord with regard to the impropriety of such a grant as that which had been proposed; nor did he believe that there would be any difference of opinion in their Lordships' House. No doubt there might be difference of opinion as to the course which should be pursued; and upon that matter it was quite right that there should be discussion.'