such an inquiry either here or at the India | manner, they would cease to be longer a House. I thank the right hon. Baronet deliberative assembly; and if they did not for the counsel he has so kindly given me mark their sense of such treatment, their to-night regarding my future course in this independence would be gone. He also obHouse. I receive his advice in the spirit injected to the measure itself on account of which it was conveyed, and shall follow it. Motion withdrawn.

its proposing to reduce a duty, which, being but 6 per cent, could only be regarded as a revenue, and not a protective duty. In the present state of the public revenue, and with the prospect of a failure of the potato crop, and the harvest in Cornwall, it would be particularly unjust to pass a law which would have the effect of subjecting the Cornish producers of copper ores to competition with the slave-raised copper of Cuba. If there was an independent Peer in the House, he must vote against the first reading of the Bill.

The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE trusted the House would not be induced by the statement of the noble Lord to dispose in this summary manner of a Bill which was intended, not to check and embarrass, but to promote the trade of the country. Did not the noble Lord know, that by the false idea of giving protection to British copper, the smelting trade of this country had been

EARL GRANVILLE moved the First exposed for years to the severest danger— Reading of the Bill.

LORD REDESDALE said, that however contrary it might be to the usual practice of the House, he should move as an Amendment that the Bill be read a first time that day six months. He did so because he considered that the treatment which their Lordships had received from the other House of Parliament on the subject of this Bill was such that it became their duty to mark their sense of it in the strongest possible manner. The resolutions on which this Bill was founded were carried in Committee of Supply on the 18th of April; but the Bill, by an unnecessary delay, was not brought into the House of Commons until the 8th of May. From that time down to the 28th of August there was not a week in which it was not fixed for a second reading; and he believed it was adjourned about thirty times before it came to a second reading. It was not read a second time, therefore, until the 28th of August, and now, on the 1st of September, within two or three days of the prorogation, it made its advent into this House. Was it proper, he asked, that a Bill which in any way affected the financial circumstances of the country, should be brought up at a period when it was impossible to give it fair consideration? If they were to be treated in this

and in fact had been in a course of gradual diminution? Did the noble Lord know that the effect of the measure, which was passed with a view to protection, had caused the establishment of smelting companies in places where smelting companies never before existed? That, he could assure him, had been the case in Chili, the United States, and other parts of the world. Amongst other authorities he might quote that of our consul at Philadelphia, who stated, that in Boston, United States, a company had erected furnaces, and were engaged in smelting considerable quantities of Mexican and Cuba ores-which ores, if not for our high duties, would have been all smelted in England? The noble Lord would promote British industry by causing the ores which would have been smelted in this country to go to America and be smelted there. The consul went on to say that smelting companies had also been talked of in New York, New Jersey, and Philadelphia. Then there was the evidence upon the subject which had been given before the Committee on the Navigation Laws; yet, in the face of such evidence, he was now told that it was essential for the interest of this country to continue the duty under which the smelting trade had broken down. The question was, should the smelting trade be retained in England, or be

driven to other countries; and he trusted to by a small majority, and that at a pethe House would not adopt the extraordi- riod of the Session when nine-tenths of nary course recommended by the noble the Members had left town. The noble Lord, which was a most unheard-of pro- Earl then called attention to the apprehenceeding, and the avowed object of which sions existing of a deficiency of food in was to defeat the Bill altogether. The Bill Cornwall by a failure of the potato crop had been passed in the other House by a and the wheat harvest, through the conlarge majority; and if their Lordships re- tinuance of wet weather; and contended fused it a first reading, they would mark that this evil would be much aggravated it not merely with discourtesy, but con- by the want of employment that would tempt. follow the enactment of the present Bill. If there was a body of manufacturers in the country, who were in a flourishing state, it was the copper smelters; and, in addition to the injury which the Bill would inflict on the Cornish miner, it would also have the effect of creating a monopoly in copper smelting.

LORD REDESDALE explained that he had no wish to treat the House of Commons with discourtesy, provided it treated this House with courtesy; but he had stated, and no answer had been given to him, that to send up to that House on the 1st of September a Bill which was brought in in the Commons as early as May was an act of discourtesy. He objected to the measure on its first reading, on account of the late period at which it had been sent up; and he must say that it constituted good ground for this House resenting the treatment which it had experienced at the hands of the House of Commons during the present Session.

LORD MONTEAGLE, whilst supporting the Bill, agreed with Lord Redesdale in his censure of the practice that had grown up of sending important Bills to their Lordships' House at a period so late in the Session. He thought this House was called upon in some way or other, not merely to mark its sense of this mode of proceeding, but to guard against that mode of proceeding hereafter; and he hoped it would be proposed in the next Session of Parliament to take some step that would preclude their Lordships, except where special cause was shown, from entertaining any Bill whatsoever that came up to them after a certain date. Their Lordships had it in their power to mark their sense of this mode of transacting the business of Parliament; and he wished the Bill on the table was such as, without any public inconvenience and sacrifice of the rights of third parties, he could, by rejecting it, mark his own sense, individually, of the manner in which the House had been treated; but as he believed that this Bill would be considered most beneficial to the manufacturing interests of this country, he would therefore support the first reading.

The EARL of FALMOUTH supported the Amendment, and argued that the Bill had not been sufficiently considered in the House of Commons, where it was agreed

The EARL of DESART said, that from the observations of the noble President of the Council, it would almost appear that the copper-smelting trade was on its last legs, and had nearly left this country; whereas he believed that the smelters were about the most flourishing interest which existed at the present moment in the whole of Great Britain, and that if they were not so powerful and so well represented in the other House of Parliament their Lordships would have heard nothing of the measure now before them. As the Bill had not been sent up to their Lordships' House until within two or three days of the prorogation, he trusted that they would adopt the Amendment of his noble Friend.

LORD WYNFORD considered that the House had not been treated with respect as regarded this Bill. They ought to remember that it was a Bill which, if it passed into law, would confer a benefit on slaveholders.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Friday, September 1, 1848.
MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.—3o and passed:-Copper and
Lead Duties; Poor Law Auditors Proceedings Restriction.

PETITIONS PRESented. By Viscount Morpeth, from the

Parish of Halifax, in the County of York, for a Better Observance of the Lord's Day.-From Members of the Gisburn District of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows, for an Extension of the Benefit Societies Act to that Order. By Mr. Anstey, from William Cobbett, a Prisoner in the Queen's Bench Prison, praying for the Production of certain Papers, relative to his Case.-By Sir R. H. Inglis, from several Clergymen of the United Church of England and Ireland, against the Diplomatic Relations, Court of Rome, Bill.-By Mr. George Hamil

Lambeth, for Inquiry into the Present State of the Law

ton, from the Minister and Congregation of the Episcopal | tion from one of the judges that I was expected to Chapel, Upper Bagot Street, Parish of St. Peter's, attend chambers during that vacation. I disclaimDublin, for Encouragement to Schools in Connexioned being subject to any such duty, and declined to with the Church Education Society (Ireland).-By Mr. attend. Since that time no communication on Pearson, from Inhabitants of the Parish of St. Mary, the subject has been made to me by any of the in reference to Grand Juries. By Viscount Morpeth, judges: but upon my return from the circuit last from Clergymen of the Church of England, residing in week, I heard from my clerk that it was reported the several Parishes of the Town of Southampton, in that I was about to attend chambers. I immefavour of the Health of Towns Bill.-- From Members of diately stated that such report was not authorised Waterford Sanitary Association, in favour of Measures by me, and that I did not propose to attend; and for the Prevention of the Indian Cholera in Ireland. By the notices referred to in the petition have none Mr. Anstey, from Daniel Keane, of 36, Lincoln's-Inn- of them been issued by my direction, or had my Fields, in the County of Middlesex, respecting the Ab- sanction. I learn from the Lord Chief Baron that, sence of Judges from Chambers.-From Ratepayers of upon his appointment, Lord Denman and the late the Township of Rotherham, Yorkshire, for an AlterLord Chief Justice Tindal, both intimated to him ation of the Law respecting Mendicants.-By Viscount Morpeth, from Officers employed in the Keighley Union, that it was no part of his duty to attend chambers, Yorkshire, in favour of a Superannuation Fund for Poor pursuant to the resolution of 1838; and the Lord Law Officers; also for an Alteration of the Poor Law Chancellor has given me permission to authorise Union Charges Bill.-From the Grand Jury of the City you to state to the House, that he considers that of Limerick, respecting the Impediments in the River it is not my duty to attend upon the present occaShannon. By Mr. Aglionby, from Henry Chawner, sion. I received your letter and the petition last Esq., Lord of the Manor of Greatham, in the County of night, and also letters from two solicitors; and, Southampton, against the Proposed Inclosure of the learning from them that there were some matters calling for an early judicial interference, I did not think it right to stand upon a question of strict obligation, but came to town this morning and

Waste Lands.

LORD CHIEF JUSTICE WILDE.

In answer to a question from Mr. AN-directed immediate notices to be sent to the par

STEY,

tion."

ties that I would attend at chambers to-morrow at eleven o'clock, and I shall attend accordingly, for The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, a few days, in order that the public may not be that hon. Members who were acquainted inconvenienced while the judges make their arwith the Lord Chief Justice of the Com-rangements for future attendance during the vacamon Pleas would be satisfied, without any statement from him, that that learned individual would not be neglectful of any duty attached to his high office. He had, however, communicated with the learned Judge on the subject, and received from him the following statement, dated August 30, which he would read to the House. The Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, in a letter addressed to him (the Attorney General) stated

"I am much obliged to you for your note and the copy of the petition about to be presented by Mr. Anstey. The only observation which I have

He was sure that the House would acknowledge that the Lord Chief Justice had acted most praiseworthily in taking care that the public should not be put to an inconvenience; though that act of kindness on his part must not be construed into any admission that his attendance was obligatory.

66

SWEEPS.

ago

MR. ANSTEY said, that some time he had put a question to the right hon. Secretary for the Home Department as to the illegal to make upon its contents is, that so far as they sweeps" advertisements; and refer to me, they are founded in error. I am not as to the intention of the Government to on the rota for attendance at chambers, nor is it prosecute the parties who offended in that any part of my duty as a Chief Justice to attend. respect. The answer he received was, In the arrangement of the judicial duties, that of the routine attendance at chambers has always been that the matter would be referred to the performed by the puisne judges; and neither the proper authorities; and he now asked the Chief Justices nor the Lord Chief Baron are in the hon. and learned Attorney General, whehabit of attending, although, under special circum-ther any decision had been come to on the stances, and as an accommodation to their brother judges, they may have attended on particular occasions. Previously to the appointment of the three additional judges, in 1832, there was no regular attendance at chambers during the long vacation. In 1838 a resolution was adopted by the

judges, that the last newly-appointed judge who

subject? He asked the question in the interest of certain newspapers, which had hitherto refused to insert such advertisements.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL believed

that there had been a misconception of the had not before performed the duty should be the attending judge in the long vacation. The intention of the Act of Parliament introChief Justices and the Chief Baron have consid-duced by the noble Lord opposite with reered that resolution to refer to the judges charged spect to the authority or duty of the Attorordinarily with the duty of attending to chamber business, and have never held it to refer to them-ney General to prosecute in cases of this selves, or acted upon it. In the long vacation of He believed that that duty of the 1846, following my appointment, I had an intima- Attorney General existed only in respect

sort.

VISCOUNT MORPETH assured the hon. Baronet that the Committee on Works of Art expressed their sense of the great and splendid generosity exhibited by Mr. Vernon in the donation he had made to the country.

to racing. He, however, admitted that | donation like that were to be allowed to the evil referred to was so extensive, and pass by in silence, he feared that the public tended so much to the demoralisation of would not deserve to receive such anthe people engaged in it; and that at the other. same time the permission of it was not right or fair towards those newspapers which, in obedience to the law, abstained from inserting advertisements of the nature referred to that he felt he should be compelled to take proceedings, if the practice of publishing those advertisements were continued. He thought it right to give this public notice on the subject, in order that parties might not afterwards excuse themselves on the plea that they had offended innocently and in ignorance of the law.

SIR R. H. INGLIS said, an answer precisely similar to the one which the House had just heard had been given to a question put by him three months ago.

SIR G. GREY said that he had stated, on the occasion alluded to by the hon. Baronet, that he had referred the matter to the Attorney General. Since that period the offence had gone on increasing.

CEYLON.

In reply to a question from Mr. HUME, MR. HAWES stated that Her Majesty's Government had received two despatches from the Governor of Ceylon, dated in July, which stated that a noisy meeting had taken place in Kandy on the subject of ordinances recently issued by the Colonial Government; that Sir E. Tennent, the Colonial Secretary, had been despatched to Kandy to explain the ordinances to the people; and that they were perfectly satisfied with his explanation. The Governor, in a despatch of the 12th of July, stated that every thing was quiet. It was quite true the troops had been ordered out, but it was rather for show than use, on account of the police feeling some alarm; and the appearance of the soldiers had the immediate effect of producing tranquillity. With regard to the ordinances in question, he (Mr. Hawes) might state that the Governor had repealed a very large portion of the taxation of Ceylon; he had equalised the import duties, and had reduced the The ATTORNEY GENERAL under-export duties, but he found it necessary stood the question of the hon. Member for Youghal to refer to the advertisements in certain newspapers respecting different "sweeps." He was not at all anxious to take any steps in the matter, as such proceedings were always painful; but the subject had been so much pressed on his attention, that he felt bound to exercise the power vested in him.

LORD G. BENTINCK trusted that there would not be one law for the rich, and another for the poor. If these " sweeps, which were the lotteries in which the middle classes took part, were to be put down, it was to be hoped that all lotteries of every description at the clubs and among the higher classes would be treated in the same way.

MR. VERNON'S GIFT.

to substitute some other taxes. That taxation was not, however, as had been stated in another place, in the nature of a poll-tax. It was a tax for the improvement of the roads, similar to the old statute-labour in this country, the inhabitants of certain districts in Ceylon being required to give six days' labour in the year, or to pay 3s. in lieu of it. This had been explained by Sir E. Tennent, and the people seemed to be perfectly satisfied VISCOUNT MORPETH brought up the with his statement. A tax upon guns had report of the Committee on Works of Art. been imposed by the Governor; but forSIR R. H. INGLIS thought that some ac-merly no one in the island was allowed to knowledgment of public thankfulness ought to be offered to Mr. Vernon for the unparalleled donation he had made to the country. He could not allow the report of the Committee on Works of Art to be laid on the table without expressing his opinion, that an act so unprecedented as that of Mr. Vernon should not pass without acknowledgment. Something ought to be done to mark the public gratitude. If a

carry a gun, and this matter had also been satisfactorily explained by Sir E. Tennent. Subject at an end.

COPPER AND LEAD DUTIES BILL.

On the question that the Bill be read a Third Time,

LORD G. BENTINCK moved, as an Amendment, that it be read a third time that day month.