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steps to church preferments, God be merciful to those churches, which shall fall under the government and feeding of such a clergy.Thus, Mr. Pym, you see the issue of our good endeavours vanish into smoak: what should be the reasons, I know not; but I may well guess it comes by the like practices that were used in king James's time; for then we had the like gracious Answers to Petitions of Religion, the like Proclamations, the like declara tions, the like command to put laws in execution against Recusants, and yet little done; being prevented by the secret directions and commands of some eminent ministers of state, which I am able to justify by a letter under their hands, which I have now about me; and I wish that all such as have notice of any such private letters as have been sent for the stay of execution of those laws, would give this house notice thereof."

Sir Rob. Philips. If ever there were a necessity of dealing plainly and freely, now is the tine: there is an admission of papists and Je suits, as if it were in Spain and France. This increase of papists is by connivance of persons that be in authority; 940 persons in houses of religion being papists, of English, Scots, and Irish in the Netherlands, maintained by the papists of England: and of this I shall deliver the particulars, that we may frame a Remonstrance to the king, that unless there be some better performance of his maj.'s so many Answers to our Petitions, our religion will be past

recovery,'

Mr. Coriton, That these papists, by laws or acts of state, may be removed from their offices, which we have just cause to suspect.' Mr. Selden moveth, That these things may be debated in order; and firt, for releasing the Jesuits that were arraigned at Newgate, whereof one was condemned: they were ten in number, which were priests, who had a college here in London about Clerkenwell: and those men could not attempt these acts of boldness, but that they have great counte

nance.'

Mr. Secretary Cooke replied, "That a minister of state had notice of those ten, and this college intended to be kept at Clerkenwell; that it is plain there was a place appointed for this college, and orders and relicks prepared. The minister made the king acquainted with it; and I should not do my duty, if I did not declare how much his maj. was affected with it. His maj. referred it to the special care of the lords of the council; who examining the same, sent those ten persons to Newgate, and gave order to Mr. Attorney to prosecute the laws against them: That this college was first as Edmonton, removed thence to Camberwell, and from thence to Clerkenwell.'—Ordered, That all the knights and burgesses of this house should to-morrow morning, delare their knowledge, what letts or hindrances have been to stay the proceedings against

Recusants.

Complaint against lord Lambert 1 Fot 1.1

A complaint was made against the lord La bert, a baron of Ireland, and a member of t house; who being a colonel of soldiers Middlesex, hath imposed 4d. upon ev soldier towards his officers charges; and t petitioner refusing to pay, was first set in t stocks, and after by the lord Lambert, co mitted to a public prison.-Ordered, that lord Lambert shall be sent for, to answ this.

Debate on a Commoner's appearing to e sæer before the Lords.] Sir John Eppesley sireth leave to answer a complaint against h in the higher house.

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Mr. Selden hereupon, That the use w and citeth precedents, That no should be called to the higher house, but will trench upon, and disadvantage the privile of this house; and until the 18th of k. Jam there was never a precedent to the contrar that this therefore may be considered of by select committee.'-Ordered, that sir Jo Eppesley should not have leave to answer the lords house.

Mr. Secretary Cooke said, 'I am as caref to maintain a good correspondency with t lords as any man; but connivancy in this ki may overthrow the fundamental rights a liberties of this house: let it, therefore, seriously considered of, for this not only co cerneth the right of this house, but the libert of the whole commonwealth.'-Ordered, the a special select committee shall be appointe to confer of this,

The Answer of the Barons, &c. of the Exch quer, concerning Tonnage and Pounduge.] M Chancellor of the duchy delivereth an Answe in writing, from the lord treasurer, chance lor, and barons of the exchequer, to th Message sent them by the house of commons viz.

"Whereas the honourable house of com mons, by order of the 12th of this instant Fe bruary, have appointed that notice should be given to the lord treasurer, chancellor, and barons of the exchequer, of a Declaration ruado by sir John Wolstenholine, Abraham Dawes and Rd. Carmarthen, in the said house, of the Goods that the Merchants brought into the king's storehouse, and laid up there for his majesty's use, were detained, as they conceive only for the duty of Tunnage and Poundage and other sums comprised in the book of rates; which notice was given, to the end the said court of exchequer might further proceed therein, as to justice should appertain :---Now, the lord treasurer, chancellor, and barons, out of their due respect to that honourable house, and for their satisfaction, do signify, that by the orders and injunctions of the said court of exchequer, they did not determine, nor any ways trench upon the right of Tunnage and Poundage; and so they declared openly, in the court at the making of those orders: neither did they, by the said orders and injunctions, bar the owners of these goods to sue for the But whereas the

same in a •·lawful course.

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concerning Tay
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imposed 4d
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ic prison.-Order-
ail be sent for,

473] PARL. HISTORY, 4 CHARLES I. 1628.-—Report relating to Popish Priests.

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said owners endeavoured to take those goods mon kitchin, buttery, and cellar, their houseout of the king's actual possession, by writs or hold-stuff is all marked with J† S. there is a plaints of replevin, which was no lawful action monthly book of their daily expences, and a or course in the king's cause, nor agreeable to contracted annual account in Latin, under the his prerogative: Therefore, the said court of rector's hand. It appeareth that they had exchequer, being the court for ordering of the purchased 2007. lands per ann. and 60/. in moking's revenue, did by these orders and injunc-ney did remain over and above their expences, tions stay those suits: and did fully declare, There were also divers letters, directions and by the said orders, That the owners, if they orders from a popish father from Rome, and all conceived themselves wronged, might take such parts beyond the seas. They had appointed Commoner's appears remedy as the law alloweth. Signed, RICH. a time of meeting which was st. Joseph's day, ords.] Sir Jon WESTON Treasurer, Lo, NEWBURGH Chancel- and then they should have said mass. All their swer a complantor, Jo. WALTER Chief Baron, JOHN DENHAM, papers were delivered to Mr. Attorney who reTHO. TREVOR, GEO, VERNON, Barons. commended them to Mr. Long.'

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dents, That to the higher and disadvantage

d until the 18th at i =precedent to the c may be consider -Ordered, the

not have leave a Cooke said, 'I s od correspondeay but connivancy he fundamental n house: let it, t ed of, for this sta of this house, but the monwealth.'-Ord

thnittee shall be

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This being read, Mr. Kirton said, We looked for satisfaction, but now we see a justification of their actions. I therefore desire we may procced to consider of their proceedings, and whether ever the court of exchequer held this course before for staying of replevius, and whether this hath been done by the regal prerogative of the king, or the court of exchequer,' -Ordered, That a select committee of the lawyers, exchequer-men, shall take this into their consideration. -Mr. Selden said, We have delayed the proceedings with the Customers, expecting some good success from the exchequer; but finding it otherwise, I desire the Customers may be called to the bar on Monday next; which was ordered.

Sir T. Hobby's Report relating to Popish Priests.] Sir Tho. Hobby reported, That he and the rest that were appointed for the service concerning the Priests, had examined the keeper

Sir John Elliot said, In all this I see his majesty's goodness is clear, and we shall stifl

retain the comfort of it. You see here is a

ground laid for a new religion, and a foundation for the undermining of the state; and, when they should be brought to trial, then Í see the over-otiiciousness of ministers of state to interpose themselves to preserve these men, to all our ruins: these men were in subjection to a foreign power, and disclaim our sovereign. What could be their purpose that laboured to find out a way to free them, but to seek our ruin? For I fear the drawing of their indictment was maliciously done for that purpose. The person that I look at first is the Attorney, whom we still find faulty in this matter of religion; when he saw the importance of the cause, and had directions from the king and council; and yet, in a cause that so much concerns the king, the people, religion and all, he

he Barons, &ef of Newgate, who confessed, the 1st of Dec. he must take his own hand away, and put it to

mnage and P luchy delivereth

e lord treasure. of the exchequer. by the house of honourable house he 12th of this ited that notice treasurer, chan juer, of a Declara holine, Abralas

in the said bose rchants brought

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nd laid up the etained, as they Tunnage and rised in the bod

received ten prisoners, suspected to be priests,
and said, That at the sessions the 3rd of Dec.
last, 3 of them were indicted for priests; and
one of them condemned, that was afterwards
reprived: and the night before the execution
Mr. Recorder sent a warrant to stay execution,
which was seconded by a warrant from the
lord chief justice Hyde: all the rest did refuse
the oath of allegiance, and it was ordered, that
they should be kept till the next sessions.
The earl of Dorset sent word to the keeper,
That his majesty's pleasure was, they should
be delivered; and a warrant came from Mr.
Attorney, to bring the priests before him, who
took sureties of them to appear 20 days
after notice at the council-board; and so they
discharged.-Hereupon.

were

Sir N. Kich said, I am confident the grace of the king bath been abused in this; that therefore the privy councellors of the house must know, whether it was by his majesty's directions, or not.' And it was moved, That Secretary Cooke may, first, declare his knowledge in this.

ren, to the end? ght further prac ld appertain ellor, and bare that bonor on, do sigui, ba For the said com determine,

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of Tunnage a leclared ope of those cales a orders and

Mr. Secretary Cooke, thereupon, made a long declaration to the house concerning those Priests, and the discovery of them; and produced the papers that were found in the house amongst them upon search; and he said, that it did appear that they were jesuits and priests, by the inventory of their goods: they had

their chanel and libus

plenished

another; this negligence repders him inexcusable. The next is that great lord, the earl of Dorsat; I find him to interpose himself herein. Let us fix it upon his person, and know by what warrant he did that which was done. I observe another person faulty also; I heard the priest was condemned, and Mr. Recorder made a reprieval: no man could vent his malice more to this kingdom, than in the preservation of these men.'

Sir F. Seymour, with vehemency, taxed both Mr. Attorney's affection and judgment herein; and declared that continual letters were sent, from Mr. Attorney, in stay of proceedings against recusanis. You see how slightly Mr. Attorney hath put over a business of this weight to Mr. Long.'

Mr. Cross, the pursuivant, being examined, said, That there were 11 men in the New Prison; and the keeper of the prison saith, they were delivered by warrant from the coun cil-board.'-It was ordered, That Mr. Recorder shall be rather sent unto to be examined, than to be sent for as a delinquent; in regard he hath, formerly, had the honour to sit in the chair here.

Mr. Secretary Cooke said, That herein we shall find, that the king being merciful in case of blood, gave directions for the reprieving of the condemned priests.

Sir J. Elliot I doubt not but when we shall

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Mr. Selden declared, That he was present at the sessions, and plain treason was proved, and nothing done in it.'-The further examination of this was referred to a select committee. Feb. 16. At the committee for Religion, Mr. Stroud moved, That the lord chief justice may be called to give an account of his stay of justice, in the execution of the condemned Priests; which he ought not have done, though his maj. signified his pleasure to the contrary.'

Sir F. Seymour made report to the h "That he and others came to Mr. Attor chamber; but not finding him there, went to Mr. Long, who shewed them a l from Mr. Attorney directed to him the Mr. Long, which was all the instruction had to prosecute the Priests, and none but, for the other men, he was to take t into a private room, and offer them the of allegiance; which if they refused, ther proceed to prænunire. After this we wer Mr. Attorney, and desired him to give us answer to every particular question. Wh upon he set down the answer with his hands, but seemed oftentimes loth to deliv unto us; yet at last he did deliver it, wh was as followeth: I received order from council, to proceed against the priests; an did, accordingly, proceed against them, an gave directions to have thein brought be ine; and took their examinations and the formations; and I sent for Mr. Long, and sired him to take special order therein. know not, nor ever heard, of any land convey to the college, but only in general; and I g directions to intitle the king to the goods. understood an indictment was preferred agai 3 of them for treason, and the rest of præu nire; and I receiving command from his m for their bailment, supposed them bailable. Hereupon it was ordered, That such Pric as are not convicted and condemned, shou be proceeded against.

The Chancellor of the Duchy said, That this was a thing ordinary for a chief justice to do, in queen Elizabeth's and k. James's times; as also a declaration in the Star-chamber, that all condemned Priests should be sent to the castle of Wisbich; and from hence (though the king had given no order for the reprieve) Report of the Judges Answers concerni he might have taken warrant for his proceed-stay of Execution of Popish Priests.] Feb. 1 ings.'

Mr. Selden made a report from the committee, for the further examination of Mr. Long, concerning the proceedings at Newgate against the Jesuits; whereby it plainly appeared, That the evidence, tendered in the court at Newgate, did clearly testify these men to be Priests; yet the lord chief justice, Richardson, did reject the same, against the sense of the rest of the judges and justices present; whereby it is plain he dealt underhand with some of the Jesuits.-Ordered that two incinbers shall be sent to each judge, that were present at the sessions at Newgate; who were said to be the lord chief justice of the King's bench, and the lord chief justice of the Coinión Pleas, Justices Whitlock, Jones, and Crooke.

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Mr. Selden reported, That he, and son others, examined Mr. Long, who said, Th Mr. Cross the pursuivant coming from Mr. A torney with direction, desired a warrant writing, and so Mr. Attorney sent him a lett before-mentioned; and so he indicted them a as Priests. And the same day they were to tried, he told the lord chief justice Hyde, th he had divers papers that did conduce to prov them priests or jesuits, and he said he was read to read them; and thereupon the lord Rich ardson said, We are upon a point, whethe priests or no priests, and they must have righ done them.' Another Judge said, 'We cam to do right to all. And the lord Richardso asked him, If he had any other evidence. H said, He had no other but those papers, whic he thoht would give clear satisfaction. Th Sir Henry Martin made report, That he, lord Richardson said, All that was but dis with others, went to the recorder of London, course: he said, What say you to the point to know by what warrant he made stay of ex-priests or no priests? To which Mr. Long ecution of the Priest. He denied that he gave answered, I saw not these men made priests any order or direction for the stay. Where- but he said, In the house where they went upon James, the clerk of Newgate, being there taken, were found copes and vestments for present, came to him, and said, He was sorry priests: and that he said to the lord Richardson that he had named Mr. Recorder, for Mr. Recorder gave no directions; but the warrant came from the lord chief justice Hyde.'Whereupon Sir H. Martin, with the rest of the committee, went to the said lord chief justice Hyde, who told them, That he gave his said warrant by command from his majesty."

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I am ready to open all this, if you please, of to answer any questions, which you shall ask concerning such things as I have read in the papers. The papers contained divers examine ations, and yet none were suffered to be read but one; and that not being conceived a fu proof, the rest were refused.'

Sir R. Philips. Never was the like exam- | ple or precedent: if the judges give us not better satisfaction, they themselves will be parties."

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Sir T. Hobby reported from the lord chief justice Hyde, That he doth not remember any papers tendered by Mr. Long were rejected; or that he affirmed they were dangerous persons, and a college of Jesuits; but howsoever, Mr. Long tendered nothing to prove them so, but that he held divers papers in his hand.'

Mr. Wandesford reported from the lord chief justice Richardson, who said, Mr. Long did discourse of the place and house, but did not press the reading of the papers; neither knew be what was in the papers, nor doth he know of any thing to prove the persons Priests.'

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Sir. T. Barrington delivered the answer of justice Jones, who saith, That some papers were offered by Mr. Long, but he knew not the contents thereof, nor the reason why they were refused; but he came late for want of his health, and the second day was not there

at all.'

Sir Miles Fleetwood delivered the answer of justice Whitlock, who said, He came late, and therefore understood not the business, and the second day was not there at all.'

Sir W. Constable delivered the like answer from justice Crooke.

Sir T. Barrington saith, That although Mr. Justice Jones did not write the name of my lord Richardson, yet in discourse he named him to be the man that did say, the point in proof is, whether priests or no priests.'

Sir N. Rich. Here is a charge of an high nature on the judges by Mr. Long; that now Mr. Long make good his charge, or suffer for it; for there were witnesses enough in the court.'-Ordered Mr. Long to be here on Thursday: also, That the justices, about the toan, shall be required to deliver in all the names of the recusants remaining about the town, their conditions and of what country hey be also, That the gentlemen of the Inns of court and chancery, shall give in their knowledge what recusants are there.

:

On Wednesday the 18th of February, a public fast was kept by the house at Westininster, where were three sermons.

Debate on the Seizing of a Member's Goods for Tonnage.] Feb. 19. Mr. Dawes, one of the Customers, being called in to answer the point of privilege in taking Mr. Rolles's Goods, being a member of the house, saith, 'He took Mr. Rolles's goods by virtue of a commission under the great seal, and other warrants remaining in the hands of sir John Elliot: that he knew Mr. Rolles to be a parliament-man, and that Mr. Rolles demanded his privilege; but he did understand that this privilege extended only to his person, and not to his goods." "That he took those goods for such duties as were due in king James's time; and that the king sent for him on Sunday last, and commanded him to make no further answer.'

Mr. Carmarthen, another customer, called in, saith, That he knew Mr. Rolles to be a parliament-man, and that he told him he did not find any parliament-man exempted in their said commission; and if all the body of this house were in him, he would not deliver the goods; if he said he would not, it was because he could not.'

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Mr. Wandesford moved, That the delinquency of these men may be declined for the present; and that we may, first, go to the king by way of Remonstrance, considering the matter from whence this doth arise; if there were a single privilege, it were easily determined.'

Mr. Selden If there be any near the king that misinterpret our actions, let the curse light on them, and not on us: I believe it is high time to right ourselves; and until we vindicate ourselves in this, it will be in vain for us to sit here.'

Sir N. Rich moveth, 'Not to proceed in this, until it be, by a select committee, considered of; in respect the king himself gave order to stay those goods, though the goods of a parliament-man.'

Sir J. Elliot. The heart-blood of the commonwealth receiveth life from the privilege of this house.'-It was resolved that this shall be presently taken into consideration; and being conceived a business of great consequence, it is ordered, that the house shall be resolved into a committee for the more freedom of debate.

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Feb. 20. Sir J. Wolstenholme, another of the Customers, called in, saith, That he was commanded, from the king, to say, that the goods were taken for duties and no more; that he sought not to farm the customs, and told the king, being sent for to his maj. that he was not willing to deal therein, until the parliament had granted the same.'-Hereupon the Warrant, from the king to the Custoiners, was read in hæc verba :

"Carolus, Dei Gratia, &c. To the lord treasurer, chancellor, and barons of our exchequer, and to the Customers of our ports.

"Whereas the lords of our council, taking into consideration our revenue, and finding that Tunnage and Poundage is a principal revenue of our crown, and hath been continued many ages; have therefore ordered, that all those duties of subsidies, customs and imposts, as they were in the 21st year of king James our late royal father, and as they shall be appointed by us under our seal, be levied: know ye, That we, by the advice of the lords of our council, do declare our will hereby, That all those duties be levied and collected as they were in the time of our said father, and in such manner as we shall appoint. And if any person refuse to pay, then our will is, that the lords of the council and the treasurer shall commit to prison such so refusing, until they conform themselves. And we give full power to all our officers to

receive, levy, and collect: and we command our barons and officers, from time to time, to give all assistance to the farmers of the same, as fully as when they were collected by authority of parliament.”

Sir H. May. The king and council took notice, that this gentleman was a parliamentinan; and it is the first time that, for the king's revenue and for duties, parliament-privileges ever held.'

Sir P. Hayman, Our mouths are stopped, if this be the king's revenue.'

Mr. Selden saith, That he conceiveth the case of the 3 customers, to differ in the degrees of their offences. 1. For sir J. Wolstenholme, whatever he saith here, he hath often confessed the goods were taken for Tunnage and Poundage; so that, as he broke the privilege in taking the goods, so likewise in his swearing one thing, and the contrary plainly appearing upon proof and his own confession, he plainly deserves punishment. 2. Mr: Dawes's case differeth only, in that sir J. Wolstenholme is a patentee, and Mr. Dawes only a sharer. 3. Mr. Carmarthen's case differeth in saying, If all the parliament were in him, he would not deliver the goods.' --Hereupon it was ordered, That Wolstenholme's case shall be first decided; and the point is, Whether by the lease, sir J. Wolstenholine having seized the goods, hath interest

or not.'

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the case of sir R. Howard, in the high comm sion. And all privilege is good, unless in ca of high-treason, felony, or breach of the pead Sir R. Philips. Thus you see how fast t prerogative of the king doth intrench on liberty of the subject, and how hardly it is covered. He then cited many preceden wherein the goods of a member of parliame were privileged from seizure, in the exchequ In 12 Eliz. it was resolved in parliament, T 20 days before, and 20 days after, was time of privileges.'

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Sir H. May desired, That, in this debat we may tic ourselves to point of law and thority, and not to point of reason; and co ceiveth that no privilege lieth against the kir in point of his duties and customs.'

Sir F. Seymour. I desire it may be t first debate, whether this case doth conce the king or not; for I conceive these custome have not made good that there is any righ here is art used only to intitle the king. I co ceive it is an high offence, for any man to l the scandal of every project upon the king'

Mr. Glanvile. flere is a cunning affiday in the exchequer, to intitle the king; a mo cunning project, and an offence of high natur to shelter their projects under the command the crown.'

Mr. Secretary Cooke. The point in que tion is, not the right of the subjects, but th right of the parliament's privilege, and that i the case of Mr. Rolles; and this is only now i question.'

Sir J. Strangeways. I know no reason why we should draw a question upon ourselve which we need not, especially between th king and us. I conceive it, plainly, that thes customers took these goods in their own righ not in the king's; in this the privilege is plainl broken, which is easily determined."

Mr. Banks. In this case there is no inter posing of the king's right; and the king, by hi proclamation, hath declared so much.-Tha the courts at Westminster do grant 12 day privilege to any man, to inform his counsel inuch more the courts of parliament are t have their privilege. The king's command cannot authorize any man to break the privi lege; no more than it will warrant an entry upon a man's land, without process of law.

Mr. Glanvile, Here is a sum of money advanced, a lease granted for certain years, and certain rent reserved; and though there be a covenant to those men, that if there be loss, it shall be abated, yet that cannot take away their interest.' The substance of the affidavit made by the customers in the exclequer, is, That the goods of the merchants seized by them, and remaining in the king's storehouse, were seized only for duties to the king, mentioned in a commission under the king's signet; and that themselves, the customers, had no interest, nor pretence of interest therein. Feb. 21. Mr. Littleton, at the committee on the Complaint of the Merchants, argued, Whether a member of the house hath his goods privileged upon a prorogation, being scized for the king? All privileges are allowed for the benefit of the cominon-wealth; the parliament's privilege is above any other, and the parliament only can decide privilege of parlia ment, not any other judge or court. That a man may not distrain for rent in parliament time, but for all arrearages after the parliament he may distrain: he is not to be impleaded in any action personal, or his goods seized in the Mr. Selden. If there were any right, the exchequer. Both by record and act of parlia- pretended right is in the subject. 1. Whether ment, he is in the king's royal protection; that privilege in goods? 2. Whether the right were it might be high-treason to kill a parliament in the customers only? 3. Whether privilege man; and the king answered it accordingly, against the king? 4. If the lords have no pri which made it a law. For the judges to deter vilege in parliament for their goods, they have mine privilege of parliament, were to supersede then no privilege at all; for they are privi and make void the law: and as to the Procla-leged in their persons out of parliament. For mation, the privilege stands good until the day the point of interest, it is plain, no kind of of prorogation. The king is never so high in covenant can alter the interest; and, ques

puint of state as in the parliament: cited in

Mr. Solicitor. If he have no right, how can he make a lease? then this pretended right of the customers must needs be void and therefore the goods must be taken, not in their own, but in the right of the king.'

tionlose had the case in the exchequer ap

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