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their predeceffors? In concluding, the hon. Member corttended, that the long time which had elapfed fince the affair at Toulon took place, during which no attempt had been made by the parties interefted to prefer any claim in a legal way, to the inveftigation of which the war could have been no bar, was in itfelf a prefumptive evidence that thofe parties felt themselves that they had no right to the remuneration which the motion before the Committee propofed to grant

them.

Sir Home Popham fpoke to the following effect:-Sir, the queftion before the Committee, on which I did not expect any difference of opinion, is fo intimately connected with the profeffion to which I have the honour of belonging, that I cannot refift offering a few remarks on the fubject, especially as neither the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, nor the hon. Gentleman who fpoke laft, have fairly and correctly stated the cafe with refpect to this point; whether the French fleet was delivered over to the noble and gallant Admiral, or whether it was taken poffeffion of by a military operation. That the operation might have been combined I have no doubt, and that intercourfe might have been had with fome of the factious in Toulon is alfo very probable, but the predominant feature was certainly military. On the 23d of August, Lord Hood appeared off Toulon with 14 fail of the line, where he found Admiral St. Julien (a creature of the Republic) in command of the French fleet of feventeen fail of the line, and who had fufpended Admiral Trogoffe from all his functions and command, and confequently all the expected co-operation on the part of Trogoffe was at an end, and the gallant Admiral decided to attack the French fleet in the formidable pofition in which it was moored; and like a great General (having long established his character as a great Admiral) he difembarked the part of the army ferving in his fleet with the marines, and took poffeffion of Fort La Malgue. After this was atchieved, did he not send a flag of truce to St. Julien the French Admiral, and make a difpofition to attack his fleet at anchor from the batteries of La Malgue, and the co-operation of the British fleet? These preparations, and the name of the noble Admiral, and the recollection of the victories that compofed its glory, had the greatest effect on St. Julien: the British Admiral's conduct at Baffe Terre, where he manoeuvred the French Admiral De Graffe from his anchorage, and took poffeffion of it, was fresh in St. Julien's memory; he knew he had to contend with a man who had

bee

been in the habits of turning his countrymen out of their roadsteads and taking poffeffion of them, and that the fame military talent might be applied here. Shall we, fays St. Julien to his partifans, give another opportunity of adding new laurels to the English flag, and increafing the difgrace of France? No! let us retire, let us join the army of Carteaux, rather than rifk the iffue of a battle. These were the motives which induced St. Julien to defert his fleet, accompanied with the crews of feven hips moft attached to him, at the very moment the British Admiral was about to enter to attack him. Can this then be called a convention? No; there was no condition, no convention between the contending commanders. And even in this, as well as after Lord Hood entered Toulon, he was feen to act not only as a gallant naval officer, but also as a great General, and confummate statesman; and then whether the fleet furrendered, or was taken for Louis XVI. the operation to all intents and purposes must be confidered as a military operation, and is entitled to the highest praife. It was difficult to fay upon what ground a claim fo well founded could be objected to. If the idea is to go abroad that the liberality of the House will not fhew itself to fignal fervices at the recommendation of his Majefty, what difconraging effects may it not produce? Even at this moment, when Lord Nelfon is blockading that, fame port of Toulon; when perhaps he is on the eve of capturing the French fleet either by valour or negociation, is it to be held out that for fuch fervices there is to be no reward, because they may be faid to be atchieved by a convention? I contend that Lord Hood's conduct throughout the whole of this business evinced the higheft fenfe of honour, and the moft refined delicacy. The queftion in my opinion is of the first importance, and I recommend it to the ferious confideration of the Houfe, and warn them how they permit either fophiftry, or a mere quibble of the law to fruftrate the claims of acknowledged merit to the strongest proofs of their liberality. Aware of the great and in'erefting bufinefs now ftanding in fucceffion in the order of the day, I fhall not trouble the Committee further, and earnefily hope the remuneration recommended by his Majefty in council will be voted without another diffentient voice,

Mr. Creevey confidered this motion to involve a question more proper for the Admiralty Court to decide upon than that House, and as he knew of nothing more dangerous than any interference on the part of the Houfe with whatever be

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longed to the jurifdiction of the courts of law, he would op pofe the motion.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer explained what he had faid with respect to the original capture of thofe fhips. He admitted that there was fomething of the character of a convention about it, but not fuch a one as that attributed to it by the learned Gentleman on the other fide. He denied that he had ever preffed this motion as a claim of right; he urged it as an appeal to the liberality of the Houfe; and he confeffed that he felt it to be an appeal to fomething more than liberality, confidering all the circumftances, although he had relied on that principally, and he was perfuaded it was that to which a deferving British officer could never apply in vain. When the peculiar nature of this cafe was candidly viewed, when the time which thofe fhips had been in ufe, and the benefit refulting therefrom to the country was confidered, he trusted that no difference of opinion could arise as to the propriety of granting to thofe gallant officers a full equivalent, particularly as it must be recollected that the application was not new in principle, but recognised by the cafes to which he had already referred, cafes which he contended were analogous to that before the Committee.

Dr. Laurence withed it to be diftinctly understood, that liberality was the only ground upon which this motion rested; and in fuch a cafe he certainly was not difpofed to be a niggardly remunerator to any of thofe gallant men who formed the pride and glory of the country. The learned Gentleman took notice of the remarks of the hon. Admiral (Sir Home Popham) that he should accede to the motion before the Committee left the rejection of it should damp the zeal of our fleets, particularly that now probably before Toulon. For himself he felt no apprehenfion on that score. Whatever might be the refult of the prefent motion, he knew the gallant and difinterefted character of our navy too well to fuppofe that any confideration of gain could ftimulate them, or any apprehenfion of lofs could reftrain them from the utmoft exertion of their duty. He recommended that further time fhould be taken fully to examine the nature of this question before the motion fhould be adopted; and he thought that a motion of this nature thould be preceded by a refolution of the House as to the fact of the merit of the force to whom the propofed reward was to be given. He concluded with acknowledging the conduct of Minifters, in thus fubmitting the measure to the confideration of the Houfe, to be no

thing more than a performance of their duty; but deprecated any hafty decifion.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that the learned Gentleman had done Minifters nothing more than justice in ftating, that they had brought this motion forward from a fenfe of duty.As to the distinction made between the grounds of right and liberality, the propofition of this claim to Parliament was itself a proof that it was not conceived toTM reft upon the ground of right; for if it was, no fuch application need have been made. Neither of the cafes referred to, namely, thofe of the Helder and Copenhagen, were brought before Parliament. The right of his Majesty to grant a remuneration for those fhips was not doubted; but yet, from the amount of the prefent claim, and from the time which had gone by fince the expedition to Toulon, referred to in the motion, an application to Parliament was deemed the proper mode of proceeding.

Sir Home Popham, in allufion to the notice taken of his fentiments by the learned Gentleman on the lower bench, faid, that perhaps in his anxiety for the adoption of the motion before the Houfe, he might have ufed expreffions too ftrong; but yet he hoped it was not fuppofed that he could be capable of thinking a British feaman would be influenced by fuch motives as the learned Gentleman had inferred from thofe expreffions,

Dr. Laurence faid, he had only animadverted on the fentiment referred to by the hon. Admiral, in order to have it difclaimed.

Mr. IV. Smith thought, that when it was proposed to vote away a fum of fuch magnitude as that fpecified in the motion, no bufinefs about to be brought forward should prevent Gentlemen from fully ftating their opinions as to the juftice and neceffity of the vote. However much he refpected the character of the navy in general, or admired the conduct of the gallant admirals to whom the motion referred, or however warm his friendship for naval officers who were interested in the motion, he could not perfuade himfelf to vote for the propofition before the Committee under the prefent circumftances, although he came down to the Houfe almost resolved to do fo. This opinion he confeffed was changed, by the arguments he had heard, and which convinced him that further time was neceffary to inquire into the cafe. It was neceffary to afcertain whether thefe fhips were valued properly, whether the fum propofed to be granted was too much or too little, and to whom and

how

how it ought to be diftributed. If the claim was founded on right, the Houfe fhould not ufurp the privilege of the Admiralty Court by deciding upon it. Thefe, however, were points upon which, if time were allowed, the Houfe would be competent to determine fairly, and alfo upon that which was very material, namely, how many land troops co-operated with the naval force at Toulon, and what proportion of this prize money they were entitled to. He urged as an additional argument for farther time, that the proceedings of the privy council recommending this meature had only been printed two days. On the whole, there were many reafons for further time, and none that were forcible for the fudden difcuffion required by the right hon. Gentleman on the Treafury bench.

Admiral Berkeley faid, that the foldiers on board Lord Hood's fleet at the time the French fhips were taken poffeffion of, were unquestionably entitled to their fhare of this prize money, but none of the troops which arrived at Toulon fubfequent to that tranfaction.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought that there was no doubt that foldiers in the fituation on board defcribed by the hon. Admiral, would, in the diftribution of the prizemoney, be confidered as marines.

Sir William Scott declined to give any opinion upon the general queftion implicated in this motion, as it came to be decided upon by him in other circumftances; but with repect to the fubject alluded to by his right hon. Friend wha fpoke laft, he stated that foldiers ferving on board the fleets were entitled to their fhare of prize money as marines.

Mr. Kinnaird confidered this a queftion of much importance. He would afk, whether, if the Bourbon family should be restored to the throne of France, the Houfe might not be again called upon to give a remuneration for thofe fhips? He thought fuch a claim in fuch an event not improbable, and for that and other reafons he would oppofe the motion, and move the previous queftion.

This motion was confidered irregular in a Committee.

Mr. Johnstone obferved, that Lord Mulgrave was at Toulon, and asked if it was intended in the propofed diftribution of this prize money that his Lordfhip should share as a marine? The hon. Member faid, that he understood there were four regiments of land forces at Toulon, who were entitled to their proportion of this remuneration.

Admiral Berkeley faid, there were only two regiments ferving as marines.

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