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ties we have fo long heard of, and they cannot be reduced without taking away the competition which has produced them. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman alfo in the propriety of Government taking the whole of the recruiting fyftem into its own hands. I agree too, that the first part of the addrefs ought to be voted, namely, thanks to his Majefty for his gracious communication, and an acknowledgment of the zeal of the people of Ireland; but there I think the addrefs ought to ftop for the prefent: I am not, without much further confideration, prepared to fay yes to the remainder of the addrefs, which will tie down this Houfe to every thing but the mere detail of a fyftem, the principles of which I do not approve, and for the confideration of which this Houfe has not had time enough; and therefore I fhall move, by way of amendment to this ad drefs, to leave out all the latter part of it, for the purpose of inferting the words, and that we fhall take the fame into our most serious consideration.”

The question being put,

Lard Caftlereagh defended the whole of the fyftem opened by his right hon. Friend (Mr. Yorke), and maintained, that although part of the plan went to adopt opi nions delivered on former occafions by the right hon. Gen tleman who had juft fat down, which opinions were not adopted when they were offered, yet it did not follow that Minifters had acted unwifely; for although they now propoled to fufpend the operation of the army of reserve act, and make fome other regulations, yet the measure of the army of referve, and the other meafures, were perfectly wife at the time they were adopted; and Minifters would have been highly culpable if they had not adopted fuch meafures, for by no other could they have raifed the number of men that had been raised. The purpose of these measures having been anfwered, another policy became advifeable under different circumftances. As to the apprehenfion, that fome of the Irish militia might propofe to come to this country, while others might be unwilling, he could remove all alarm on that fubject, by affuring the House, that to his knowledge every man in the Irish militia was ready to join in the offer which had been made on this occafion. He approved, however, of not increafing the number of militia actually to be in Ireland. The vacancy occafioned by their coming here was only to be filled up, for it was delirable that the militia fhould bear proportion to the regular force in Ireland, the militia not exceeding 28,000,

X x 2

28,000, and the regular force in Ireland now being 35,000. The noble Lord then entered into an enumeration of the different numbers raifed by recruiting for the line fince the operation of the army of referve act, comparing it with former periods when there was no fuch act to operate, to fhew that it had not by any means had the effect of dimi nishing the fervice, as had been fuppofed. He concluded with oppofing the amendment, and giving his hearty affent to the original addrefs.

Mr. Baftard faid, if the amendment fhould be withdrawn, he fhould, for the prefent, only exprefs a hope, that there would not be any thing haftily done in this important bufi nefs; and he affured the Houfe that he fhould oppose, at all times, every measure that tended to alter the fundamental principles of the militia laws.

Dr. Laurence declared that the fituation of Ireland was not fuch as could afford the number of troops which were fpoken of being fent out of the country. He was willing to accede to the ftrongest terms which could poffibly be adopted with refpect to the loyal and generous offer of the militiamen of Ireland, but he could not fee that it was equally politic to accept of fuch offers now, as it was those of the English militia in 1798, when it was evident that every thing was wanting to crufli and beat down a violent and powerful rebellion in their country. If a perfon was now to afk him in what part of the empire do you most want. 10,000 additional troops, he muft anfwer, in Ireland. And yet if he was afked from what part of the empire are 10,000 troops to be drawn by his Majefty's Minifters, he muft fay, from Ireland. He knew that there might be fomething of a doubt as to the propriety of fuffering 28,000 of fuch a force as are called militia, to remain in Ireland with a regular force amounting to only about 30,000. But this could by no means juftify the withdraw ing of a difciplined force from a country which was particularly threatened with danger, and fubftituting in its place a new levy of recruits. This fort of wisdom in Ministers, together with their various alterations of opinion, he thought could only be accounted for by a comparison with their conduct upon a former occafion, when they committed and recommitted, and, to prevent the ridicule of fuch recommitments, waited two days in order to bring forward a volume of new clauses.

Colonel Hutchinfon declared that the addsefs had his most hearty approbation, as far as it went with refpect to the Irish

militia;

militia; but he was forry to fee the word feveral in the rcfolution, when he was certain, that the unanimous determination of the Irish militia might be depended on, if their fervices were required. However their intentions were Laudable and generous on their part, to affiit the Crown in any part of the empire, and to make a return for the liberal affiftance which had been afforded to their country at a former period, would any military man fay that it was confiftent with found policy to withdraw difciplined troops from a country which was particularly and avowedly threatened with an immediate attack, and to place in their ftead the fame number of raw, undifciplined troops, which might require two years before they would arrive to an equal state of perfection? Was it wife, or was it juft or politic, he would aik any country gentleman, when a country was threatened with immediate invafion, to withdraw 10,000 of as fine peafantry as any in the world, from its native refources of defence, and to withdraw along with them the gentlemen of the first refpectability in wealth or influence within that country, from the affittance which they could otherwife afford it by their wifdom, their power and their connections? If England was fituated as Ireland now is, would the country gentlemen of England think it reafonable? He knew that his Majefty's Minifters did not poffefs the power to enforce the extenfion of the fervices of a militia force, but he implored the country gentlemen-to confider whether it would not be better to recommend a change of the militia of the two countries, than to leave 10,000 recruits to be railed in the place of an equal number of we difciplined troops, which were to be withdrawn from its defence. He had often recommended to his Majefty's Minifters to inquire into the ftate of that country; but unfortunately for that people, and to the difgrace of the Ministers, they had never thought fit to inquire into the bufinefs. He was convinced, however, that, if a number of the enlightened part of this country, the fuperior officers of the militia, were to go over to Ireland during a time of fuch peril as the prefent, and were to fee the struggles that would be made by the great majority of that people in the defence of their King and of their Conftitution, they would, nay they muft,, confiftent with their own good fenfe, come back when the conteft was over, with a thorough conviction on their minds, that those people deferved better treatment than they had hitherto received from the fervants of that Crown for which they were ready to face any force, however formidable, or

however

however fpecious might be his pretences. He would not confider himself bound to the fupport of any future measure that might be brought forward by the bill; but, inasmuch as the addrefs expreffed an approbation of the loyal and gallant offers which had been made, he would for the prefent give his vote in fupport of it, but would at a future period declare his fentiments freely with refpect to any provifion which might tend to weaken the native defence of the country in a moment fo important as the prefent.

Mr. Bankes did not wish the Houfe to pledge itself to adopt fyftem before it was aware what that fyftem was to be; for which reafon he withed the Houfe to inquire into this matter before it voted any thing further than thanks to the Throne. He deprecated any meafure tending to weaken the force of Ireland, which was much more vulnerable than this country. He thought the proper fphere of the militia fervice was in its own home. He was adverfe to the admiffion of a principle which would authorize a fimilar offer on the part of the English militia; and in the prefent circumftances of Ireland the force propofed to be taken from it must be replaced by fome other. He was for the strict obfervance of public faith upon all occafions whatever. The events of 1798 were highly detrimental to the militia fervice in general; and he concluded by obferving that, in his prefent view and under his prefent information of the fubject, he should, if puthed to a vote, give it against the meafure entirely.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, after noticing what he conceived as inconfiftencies of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) with refpect to his opinions and conduct relative to a question fimilar to the prefent, palfed on to the confideration of the fubject before the Houfe. The conduct of the Irish militia was worthy of the highest encomiums; but he deprecated the idea held out, that thefe fpirited and patriotic offers could not be accepted without a breach of faith. The effect of the addrefs was, that they would proceed to confider of fuch provifions as may be neceffary to enable the Crown for a time to be limited to accept thefe offers: it was material to confider the best means of enabling the Crown to exercise a difcretionary power on this occafion. On this he contended it was material that Parliament fhould come to a speedy determination. It was material that the Government of Ireland fhould know in the interval of the enfuing recefs, that the Legislature was willing to accept of

fuch

fuch laudable offers; it was right the Government of that part of the united kingdom thould know the difpofitions of Parliament upon the fubject. With refpect to the idea that Ireland was about to be stripped of 10,000 men by the meafure, it was entirely unfounded. The prefent question merely refpected the vesting a difcretionary power in his Majefty to accept, in fuch proportions or at fuch periods as he should deem proper, a force to the amount dated; but this by no means implied that fuch removed troops were not to be replaced. Gentlemen who talked fo feemed to forget that there was a middle defcription of force in this country, that was neither regular troops nor militia; he alluded to the army of referve, with which the military eftablishment of Ireland might be repaid any number of troops taken therefrom. Such an arrangement might by that means be made as would liberate 5000 troops of the difpofeable force of either country. It was not intended in the least to diminish the efficient forces

of Ireland. One of the principal objects in fuch an interchange would be to augment the force of that defcription, which the right hon. Gentleman uniformly profeffed to think infinitely fuperior to any other, he meant the disposeable, fuch as could be employed upon foreign or offenfive fervice fhould fuch be deemed defirable. Independent of this confideration, it was the most expeditious way in which a force to fuch an amount could be trained and difciplined. On fuch an occafion no time fhould be loft; they thould let the militia of Ireland understand that they were willing to accept offers which involved fo many advantages, and that without delay; but they might depend upon it, they would have no more offers from Ireland if they voted the amendment of the right hon. Gentleman; and upon thefe grounds he was decidedly hoftile to that proceeding.

Sir J. Newport expreffed his exultation that the loyalty and affection of the great body of the people of Ireland ftood vindicated in the estimation of his Majefty's Ministers. Such was what he inferred from the declaration of one of them, and in which fentiment he trufted they all agreed; the loyal and patriotic offers of the militia, who he believed to a man would cheerfully volunteer their fervices, was a striking proof, to a very great extent, of the truth with which he wifhed to imprefs the Houfe. The charge of difaffection against the great bulk of the Irish people was moft groundlefsly made. He trufted they would all in the hour of danger, whatever may be the differences in their religious tenets,

ftand