for 8000 or 10,000, after having raifed 18,000, which had been looked upon as a juft proportion for the country. If the object was to augment the force of the country, it ought to be done generally, not in the Irish militia in particular. There was no queftion of the loyalty and efficiency of the Irish militia, but he could not fee why 10,000 of them were to be removed, if to be replaced by fo many from the army of referve, of nearly the fame ftate of difcipline. The augmentation, though that queftion was not properly before the Houfe, would raise a competition against the fix new battalions to be raised in Ireland. The hon. Gentleman who opened the debate, had alluded to the ill confequence of taking fo many of the gentlemen of property from Ireland, as would come over with their regiments. The right hon. Gentleman had ftated, that it was not the intention of Government to weaken the military force in Ireland, for that if 10,000 were to be withdrawn from it, a like number was to be fent over in their place. He would ask them, what was to be gained but a breach of the great conftitutional principle on which the militia was formed? When in 1802 the interchange of the fervice of the militia of both countries had been agitated, the House had decided, that they fhould be confined to the refpective countries. If Minifters wish to get rid of the militia altogether, they ought to fay fo, and not keep it hanging over gentlemen, that if they fhould not join in an offer of fervice at fome future period, they fhould be told they were ungrateful The conftitution of the militia fhould not be trenched upon by a fide wind, nor in a collateral manner. As to the offers of the Irish militia in 1799, which the right hon. Gentleman had quoted as a precedent, they were only a return for the fervices of the English militia; but this meafure would go to overturn the whole fyftem, by laying the English militia under an obligation of making other offers in return for those now made. If any ground of neceffity or expediency had been laid for the bill, he fhould not have oppofed it, but contemplating it under the unfavourable confequences which appeared to him likely to refult from it, he fhould oppofe the Speaker's leaving the chair.

Mr. Alexander was happy to hear the queftion argued on conftitutional grounds, with the fairness and candour with which the hon. Gentleman who had juft fat down had treated it. He was particularly gratified at his having taken it up in that view, becaufe the meafure had been charged from another quarter as a confequence of the incapacity of his Majesty's Go

vernment;

vernment; and he muft fay, that the allegations of incapacity were much too frequently employed, as well as that there was no defcription of force provided for the defence of the country, militia, reserve, volunteers, &, that had not been degraded by the manner in which they had been adverted to by gentlemen, He thought that on every ground of public policy, the offers of the Irifh militia ought to be accepted, as it appeared to him that no opportunity fhould be omitted for augmenting the dif pofable force in this country. If Ireland were the object of the enemy, it could only be attacked from Breft, or fome of the ports of Holland, but not by any part of the great Boulogne flotilla. He contended that, in a conftitutional point of view. nothing could be brought into precedent that should not be fanctioned by the wifdom of the Legislature, and that the Legiflature of the day would always guard against any injury that might be apprehended from the influence of the precedent not.. juftified by circumftances. As to the observation that this meafure would convert the militia into a deliberative body, he contended that it was unfounded, because as foon as the act was over the deliberation ceased, and an individual act conftituted no fyftem. If the time fhould arrive that Ireland fhould be attacked, he was convinced that there was not a man in England who would not willingly fhed his blood in its defence. The hon. Gentleman then adverted to the number of shipping and convenience of ports in England for conveying a difpotable force to any foreign deftination, and concluded with giving his fupport to the motion for the Speaker's leaving the chair.

Mr. Bankes could not but confider the prefent measure as one of the most important fubjects that could arreft the attention of the Legiflature. It was a direct infringement of the militia fyftem, and was reforted to without any neceffity to justify it. If we ceafed to adhere to the principles upon which that fyftem was founded, we might be found to act without the guidance of any principle at all; and we might foon be hurried into a stream which we fhould be unable to refift, and by which we might be carried to incalculable extremities. It was only the extremely perilous and unnateral state in which Ireland was placed in 1798, that could by any means have permitted us to overlook thofe principles which before had uniformly been held facred. What is the object of the prefent bill? It goes to take away from Ireland, the most vulnerable part of the empire, 10,000 men of its beft difciplined force, and of that fpecies of force which iis leaft able to fpare. So far the plan must be acknow

3 E 2

ledged

ledged to be novel and furprising. Both countries may be in real danger; but it is univerfally acknowledged that Ireland is in ten times more danger than Great Britain. Were that not the cafe, why fhould we be fo lavish of our panegyric on the patience, the perfeverance, and the intrepidity of our blockading forcé under Admiral Cornwallis, unlefs we were fure that to his vigilance in preventing the failing of the Breft fleet, the fafety of Ireland is chiefly to be afcribed? But we are told, that if this force be taken away from Ireland, it is to be supplied by another; and by what other? By a portion of the army of referve. Can that be regarded as an effectual fupply? Surely not; for the one you take must be confeffed to be of fuperior difcipline. Indeed, the whole of the bufinefs feems fo unaccountable to common reafon, that Minifters must be fuppofed to have fome private motives for their conduct, which they are unwilling to difclofe. They furely would not openly violate the militia laws, were it not that they intended to introduce for all times and occafions a reciprocation of the fervices of the militia of both countries. This mutual interchange of fervices could not, however, be placed on the fame ground. The militia of Ireland was raifed on a different footing from that of England. The latter was raised by ballot; the former by bounties, and, confequently, might be more manageable. As to the voluntary offers faid to be made here and in Ireland, they deferved any thing but the name of voluntary. On the part of the officers, the offer might arife at the moment from a sense of duty, or a point of honour; but it fhould never be afcribed to fpontaneous and unprompted alacrity. The direct contrary was well known to be the fact. Indeed, whether the offer came from the officers or the men, it was equally abominable. On the part of the officers it might be fuggefted by ambitious views, or a wish to ingratiate themfelves with perfons in power. If it came from the men, the danger attending it would be ten-fold greater, and would involve all the inconveniencies and confufion that muft arife from military men erecting themfelves into deliberative bodies. Over fuch men, fired by the zeal and fpirit with which declaimers amongst them might then be naturally actuated, what authority could officers retain and exercife? The fervices of the English militia may foon be called for under the fame pretence of a voluntary offer; nor will it ftick there; the fame mode may be applied to the volunteers. The exuberant zeal of fome of the corps may fuggeft the offer, and advantage might foon

be

be taken of fuch an example. If no difcrimination was to be made in thefe offers of voluntary fervice, where could they be fuppofed to stop? The fatal tendency of fuch an example, he trusted the wifdom and caution of the House would seasonably provide against, and not permit them to be fo eafily worked upon as they were in the year 1798. They should recollect, that permitting innovations of this nature, must render a fervice cafy and acceptable in its origin, grievous and oppreffive by an abufe or infringement of its principles, and that the operations of it must prove of fuch perfonal inconvenience and national detriment, that it is enough to diffolve and diforganize the whole militia fervice. There were other and more effectual modes of raifing the force required: they might indeed require fomething of more expence; but under the prefent circumstances of the country, a trifling addition of expence fhould not be attended to. We should no doubt be grateful for the gallant offer which the zeal of the Irish militia has prompted them to make; but the prudence of Parliament fhould dictate fomething more to be relied upon than fuch temporary and occafional expedients.

Colonel Hutchinfon ftated the grounds on which he felt it his duty to fupport the bill. He should fupport it as a meafure which could not fail to have the happiest effects on the fituation of Ireland. He wished, however, to ftate distinctly to the Houfe, the grounds on which this opinion was founded. It was from an idea that the interests of all ranks of the community in Ireland would be benefited by the meafure, that he was determined to vote for it on the prefent occafion. The manufacturers and agricultural peafants of Ireland would, by coming into this country, have an opportunity of contemplating the happiness which prevailed among the lower orders, and would be prompted to emulate and to cultivate thofe habits from which this happiness and comfort proceeded. They would have an opportunity of obferving in how many refpects the inhabitants of this part of the united empire; excelled thofe of a fimilar description in Ireland; and it was not to be denied that the circumstances of fuperiority were various, and from fuch a review they would fee the propriety of acting on the principles by which this fuperiority was procured. They would learn to appreciate the value of husbanding their time, and would fee the advantage of purfuing that fyftem of habitual induftry which, in this country, was the diftinguishing feature of the loweft, in common with the highest ranks in fociety. The advan

tages

tages arifing from the union of public fentiment, would not fail to excite their attention, and from the comparifon which must arife in their minds, it was natural to anticipate the most important alteration of public opinion on their return to their native land. Refpect for the people of this country' would neceffarily be created, and a degree of affection would be contracted which, under the prefent circumftances of the empire, could not poffibly exift. It would be seen that they came into a country where they were received as fellow citizens, as fharers of the fame conftitational privileges and political rights. The confequence of fuch an interchange of opinions was obvious. It was, more than any other circumitance, calculated to destroy thofe feelings of prejudice, which it was fo material to eradicate. They would unlearn much of that misconception which, from a variety of circumftances, now prevailed. But above all, the beneficial effects of the measure would operate in fhewing the people of Ireland, that there was a great diftinction to be made betwixt the feelings of this country at large, and the opinions and fyftem, not of this Ministry alone, but of any cabinet that had hitherto been formed. It would convince them that whatever the perverfity and wickedness of any cabinet might be with regard to Ireland, this policy was not countenanced or fupported by public opinion. Minifters might act on narrow, illiberal principles, but the fentiments of an English public would be found to be candid, liberal, and generous. The militia of Ireland, who now volunteered their fervices to this country, would leave it with the impreffion that the people were not partakers in the perfecuting policy of any Adminif tration, but were infpired with every with of extending to all parts of the empire the bleflings of an equitable system of government. But this was not the only view which he entertained of the beneficial confequences of the measure. The gentlemen who were to command the militia regiments which were to volunteer their fervices to this country, would likewife learn many important leffons by this extenfion of their fervices. The Houfe would keep in view that they were principally land-owners, who neceffarily maintained a moft important and interefting relation with the lower orders in Ireland. He entertained a hope that they would feel it their duty to compare the fituation of the tenantry of England with that of the tenantry of Ireland, to view their relative degrees of comfort and happiness, and on their return to Ireland employ themfelves in introdueing the improvements