Mr. LITTLEFIELD. You have already got your arrangements made for your Porto Rican trip?

Mr. GOMPERS. Yes, sir.

Mr. SMITH. So that you will go at that time?

Mr. GOMPERS. Yes, sir.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. So that unless it could be heard before that, it would suit you better to have this matter come on after that?

Mr. GOMPERS. That would prolong it until very late in the session of Congress.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes certainly; but so far as your convenience would be concerned

Mr. GOMPERS. I would prefer, then, that my convenience should not be considered.

Mr. LITLLEFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HENRY. How would January 22 suit you?

Mr. GOMPERS. That would be convenient to me, or any day between now and the 6th day of February.

Mr. HENRY. Would a motion be in order to set a day?

Mr. NEVIN. I do not think that it would be best to submit that motion until we have our executive session.

The CHAIRMAN. No.

Mr. GOMPERS. May I make one further suggestion?

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. GOMPERS. In the hearings before the Fifty-sixth or the Fiftyseventh Congress a large number of original injunctions that were issued were placed before the committee and printed in documentary form in the hearings. Some of the statements and arguments were also printed. May I ask that such of the statements and copies of injunctions as were printed, the originals of which were shown to the committee at the time, presented to the committee at the time, may be made a part of your proceedings on this bill?

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will consider that very carefully. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Why can you not use those matters in your pre sentation, when you get around to it?

Mr. GILLETT. Just offer them.

The CHAIRMAN. Anything you desire to present will be printed. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I do not think any of the original injunctions. were presented. You presented certified copies of the orders. Mr. GOMPERS. I presented the originals.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. How could you get them?

Mr. GOMPERS. The injunctions that were served upon us, upon

numerous men.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes; that is right.

Mr. GOMPERS. The originals were retained by the committee.
Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes; I see.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Gompers, so that you may not be misled, the Chair will state to you that on Friday morning the committee will announce to the public when the hearings will be had, so as to give both sides full opportunity to be heard, and most assuredly you will have ample time to be heard, and there will be no disposition on the part of the committee to postpone the matter or anything of that kind, or to weary you gentlemen; and if it were not for the fact that the committee has had so many applications, as I have said, from so many

parts of the nation to be heard on this matter, the committee would settle this matter this morning.

Mr. GOMPERS. May I present to the committee this morning the representatives of the American Federation of Labor, who have been selected by the executive council of the Federation of Labor, Mr. James S. Grimes, of Texas, the representative of the United Brotherhood of Joiners of America, and Mr. Charles L. Nelson, of New York City, representing the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. These gentlemen were selected as representatives of the legislative committee of the Federation of Labor, together with your humbie servant, to do what we could in this matter. Mr. Furuseth you of course know.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Fuller is not present this morning.

Mr. GOMPERS. No, sir. I might say that Mr. Fuller represents the Brotherhood of Steam Railroad Employees, and although not affiliated directly with the American Federation of Labor, we are in perfect accord with them.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. You are cooperating in the same matter?
Mr. GOMPERS. Yes, sir; we are in entire accord, as I say.

Mr. CLAYTON. He is sick to-day, which is the reason that he is not here.

Mr. GOMPERS. Yes, sir; he is suffering very much from an affection of his eyes. Otherwise I am sure he would be here. I thank you, gentlemen, for your courtesy.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wilson, have you anything to occupy the attention of the committee this morning?

Mr. WILSON. No, sir.

STATEMENT OF MR. JAMES L. PARSONS, OF WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. PARSONS. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Graham and Mr. Galloway and myself were appointed a committee by the Employers' Association yesterday to see your committee and ask for a postponement of the hearing on this antiinjunction bill. We have just heard your announcement that the time of hearing will be announced next Friday, and we thank you for that decision.

Mr. LITTLE. If the chairman wishes to communicate with you, will it be convenient to you to have a hearing?

Mr. PARSONS. We would like to have this matter postponed as long as possible, for the reason that the Employers' Association have no central organization, like the American Federation of Labor, and it requires considerable time for all the various associations to be prepared to be heard and to present their objections to this proposed legislation.

Mr. CLAYTON. Has this view occured to you, that the other people have been presenting their side of the case here year in and year out, and it seems that the opposition could have taken some steps before this to be heard?

Mr. PARSONS. That is very true, sir; but the employers have not been organized. It is only within the last few months that they have been forced to organize, and we are not yet organized; but we find that it is imperative that we should do so.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. It is likewise true that the committee has never given any notice of public hearings on this bill at any time from the beginning until now?

Mr. CLAYTON. The newspapers have made it a matter of public notoriety year in and year out.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. That may be, but I have stated the facts.

Mr. CLAYTON. That is correct.

If

Mr. PARSONS. This date of hearing was only fixed about a week ago. The CHAIRMAN. You have heard what has been said this morning. Can you not make an application to the committee that can be considered, between now and Friday morning. Your statement is that you want it postponed as long as possible. That is very inconvenient. you can make an application to the committee, and furnish that to the committee or to myself some time during the day it can be considered. Mr. PEARRE. What time do you think can be fixed that would be suitable?

Mr. PARSONS. Between now and Friday, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. We ought to know between now and Friday when you can get ready?

Mr. PARSONS. That ought to be time enough to make an application to you, between now and Friday, indicating the time.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. It is not a very fair proposition to the committee to ask them to postpone it indefinitely.

Mr. PARSONS. The circumstances, of course, which I have stated, have some weight.

The CHAIRMAN. Just make an application that we can consider and have before us when we consider the question of further hearings. Mr. PARSONS. I will be glad to do so.

Mr. POWERS. I presume that you have reference to the dates when it will be convenient?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. POWERS. Up to date do you represent anybody but your local organization here?

Mr. PARSONS. No, sir; we represent

Mr. POWERS. All these other people you have not had any conference with?

Mr. PARSONS. NO, sir; that is the reason that we ask for this time. Mr. POWERS. Yes; I see.

Mr. PARSONS. If we were in the position of the Federation of Labor, organized, and having a central head, we could take this matter up immediately, without delay.

Mr. POWERS. Yes, I see.

Mr. PARSONS. But we unfortunately are not in that position. I thank you, gentlemen.

Mr. POWERS. I would like to ask, before the gentleman leaves, if it is not possible for those who oppose this bill to make some arrangement by which certain parties or certain persons shall represent the entire interest opposed to the bill. I can see very readily, with the number of objectors to the bill, that the committee could not give an opportunity to everybody to be heard, and that they must be heard through certain representatives representing the entire opposition to the bill. The CHAIRMAN. You had better consider that, Mr. Parsons. Mr. PARSONS. I did not hear all of that.

Mr. POWERS. My suggestion was that those who were opposed to this bill should make arrangements by which certain persons should be selected to represent all the interests opposed to the bill, for the reason that the committee can not hear everybody opposed to it.

Mr. PARSONS. Yes, sir; that we can do and will do if we get sufficient time to inaugurate that.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee wants to know what you consider to be sufficient time.

Mr. PARSONS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. If you will just consider that.

Mr. PARSONS. We will let you have that between now and next Friday.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anybody else who wants to call the attention of the committee to anything further? If not, we will now go

into executive session.

(Thereupon, at 11.30 a. m., the committee went into executive session.)

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Hon. John J. Jenkins, chairman, presiding.

February 8, 1904.

STATEMENT OF SAMUEL GOMPERS, PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF LABOR.

The CHAIRMAN. What relation do you hold to labor at this time, Mr. Gompers?

Mr. GOMPERS. First and primarily I am a member of my own trade union, and have been such since 1864; first vice-president of the Cigarmakers' International Union of America, which is more of an advisory officer to that of the president of the organization. And I am president of the American Federation of Labor.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state how the American Federation of Labor is made up?

Mr. GOMPERS. The American Federation of Labor is, as its name would imply, a federation of the organized bodies of workmen in trade unions, the national and international unions, and city central bodies, and State federations of labor, and such local unions throughout the country as have no national or international trade unions of their own and are, therefore, affiliated by charter to the American Federation of Labor. We have based our federation upon the principle of the Federal Government of the United States. That is, the national and international unions hold the same relations to the American Federation of Labor that our respective States hold to the Federal Government.

Each national or international union, is sovereign unto itself and retains to itself that power which is not conceded to the American Federation of Labor. The local trade unions to which I have referred, having no national or international union, hold the same relations to the American Federation of Labor that our Territories hold to the Federal Government; that is, they are under its immediate jurisdiction without owing allegiance to or being governed by any State authorities.

The last reports to our headquarters show a paid-up membership of our affiliated national and international unions, and those local unions that hold direct relations by charter, of a fraction over two millions of members.

There are about four or five great international unions or brotherhoods that are at present unaffiliated, three of the brotherhoods are of steam-railroad employees and the Bricklayers and Masons' International Union. The latter is now taking a vote upon affiliation with the American Federation of Labor. The railroad brotherhoods are not now taking a vote, although the subject is frequently discussed. But notwithstanding that they are not affiliated with the American Federation of Labor, they are in full accord with its policy and polity. Mr. POWERS. May I ask you, Mr. Gompers, what the distinction is between the American Federation of Labor and the Knights of Labor? Mr. GOMPERS. The difference between a living human being and a corpse.

Mr. POWERS. That is, they are distinct bodies; one is alive and the other is dead, as I understand you?

Mr. GOMPERS. That would be my definition of it. Some years ago there was really a bona fide existence of the Knights of Labor, and the difference that existed in the theory of organization and the practice I presume you would not care to have me explain?

Mr. POWERS. I would not care to have you go into it; but they are not affiliated?

Mr. ALEXANDER. Let us hear Mr. Gompers. Let us hear what he was going to say.

Mr. GOMPERS. The trade unions, which are the integral parts of the American Federation of Labor, have had their existence in some form or other for centuries. Their immediate predecessors were the oldtime guilds. After the abolition of the feudal system and the transition from the feudal system into free labor-that is, the right of the business man, the employer, the manufacturer, to have a free field for the disposition of articles, manufacture, and commerce; with also in its wake the free laborer-that is, the right of the laborer to own himself and to dispose of himself and his labor as best seems to him. With that transition and development came the trades unions and their larger growth with the introduction of improved machinery, the development of industry, the concentration of large numbers in particular plants.

When modern industry was still locally directed and conducted we found the local trade unions dealing with the local interest; with the expansion of industry and its direction and control by fewer employers, the extension of the organization of trade unions, covering States and overlapping States-becoming national. And with the general recognition on the part of employers of a considerable identity of their general interests has come a fully developed general labor movement, as typified by the American Federation of Labor, that realizes that the best results and the most intelligent methods to achieve them, are accomplished by the organization of those having the most immediate and like interests.

Such as, for instance, say, the carpenters and joiners, that they must be united in the union of those branches of the trade, or the organization of the granite cutters, the organization of the printers, and so forth, in their respective international unions; for they, having the