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Mr. SANDLIN. The activities carried on at Beltsville, for instance? Doctor KELLERMAN. Yes.

Mr. BUCHANAN. That is fundamental research; I excluded that. Doctor KELLERMAN. Oh, you mean to exclude that type of work? Mr. BUCHANAN. I am speaking about the field work primarilythis field station work.

Mr. HART. An example of what you referred to there would be this leafhopper, which occurs in Colorado and Utah.

Doctor TAYLOR. And California, Washington, and Idaho.

Mr. HART. Yes; those States. That is a problem peculiar to that region. However, you carried on your investigation in Colorado, and if Colorado furnished the equipment, men, and so forth, it would be putting a burden upon Colorado which was not in direct proportion to its interests.

Doctor KELLERMAN. Yet you have no way by which Kansas, Nebraska, and Utah can contribute for their cost of land, or cost of buildings, or things of that kind, and that point enters into it.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I do not know; I do not say that the entire investigation should be in one State

Doctor KELLERMAN. Well sometimes it is more efficient to handle it in such a manner.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I know, but you are not doing it.

Doctor KELLERMAN. Not altogether, of course; no.

Mr. BUCHANAN. No; you have 5, 6, or 7 different field stations. Doctor TAYLOR. Yes, but we have not a station in every State where these crops grow, you see.

Mr. BUCHANAN. No; but there is no reason why, where these States are interested, you could not cooperate with them. You see, they are field stations that they establish for this purpose and what you develop at one station you could have tested out at the other stations. The advantage of this cooperation is that you then enlist the interest, influence, public sentiment, and everything else, of the State authorities as well as the Federal authorities, and, when you get your remedy, it may be that you would get better publicity-it gets to the people better and more quickly.

Doctor WooDs. As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, we are trying to do that, as far as it is economically possible. Take this sugar-beet leafhopper trouble: We have had good cooperation from several of the experiment stations, but they have not had specialists in this particular field in some cases. If it were left to some State that did not have the qualified men, they would have to hunt around and hire men, and we would have much more duplication in the end.

Mr. BUCHANAN. Of course that condition arises from the fact that the Federal Government heretofore has been doing the whole darn business and they are depending on the Federal Government.

Doctor Woods. In regard to certain types of projects that is correct. I refer especially to projects of more than local or State interest.

Mr. BUCHANAN. That is true not only with reference to agriculture, but other things and in other departments of the Government. If the evil is to be remedied-why they just look first to the Federal Government and not themselves, and it is depriving them of initiative, and the idea is absent in their head that if they get a remedy they have 149139-32- -24

to go to work and help get it. That is absent, because they are looking to the Federal Government for everything.

Doctor WOODS. I think in the last 10 years there has been a very definite movement, such as you speak of, of centering all of the local work that can possibly be centered in the State experiment stations. Mr. BUCHANAN. You mean that is the policy?

Doctor Woods. That is the policy, and it is making rapid progress, as I think they will all agree.

Mr. HART. I think the best example of where that should be carried on is especially in the dairying industry. They have a lot of stations around here that I do not believe are necessary. I believe in this Beltsville station, because that is your laboratory here; that is the place in which the Government's activities are centered. But with these special stations scattered all over the country and nearly every one of those States has a college or some institution, in which they provide dairy cattle and the facts from those dairy cattle investigations could be assembled, it does not seem to reduce those stations. Doctor WOODS. Well I made a study of the matter for the Economy Committee last year, made a very extensive report for them with the help of Doctor Kellerman, and I think we found a surprisingly small number of real stations and even those were, more than half of them, definitely in cooperation with the State stations. Nearly all of the 1,800 locations at which we had men temporarily located were for purposes like meat inspection, or weather reporting, or some other activity of that kind that was not in the nature of a station at all, but simply an activity that was located there.

Aside from the national forests and bird and game refuges only 35 stations are on land owned by the Government, the greater part of the remainder being field laboratories or offices with quarters leased by the State or Federal Government or headquarters in post office buildings. The greater number of these leased quarters represent the very simplest laboratory space of more or less temporary duration established for the period of investigating some special problem such as the development of control methods for some new plant disease or insect pest. However, there is no clear demarcation between such minor stations and those larger areas leased in cooperation with some State station for more permanent agricultural research.

Mr. BUCHANAN. As far as weather reporting is concerned, that can only be done by the Federal Government.

Doctor Woods. And they were in Federal buildings and the work could not be done at any other place. They were not stations at all in the sense in which we are talking about them.

Mr. HART. Doctor, if I read the sign of the times, I think every department wants to prepare for a curtailment of activities probably in another year. I will tell you that the public is not going to stand for a further increase in taxes. In other words, our taxes have piled up; our business is falling and we may go a long time before we reach a boom period in which we can easily collect taxes. Now, in order to maintain the activities in which we have been participating, we either have to find new sources of revenue, because we can not get it with the present levy, or we have got to reduce the departments of the Government somewhere, which I believe we will have to do, and I think the bureaus themselves ought to work out the problem in some

way to reduce and not have it done by a direct cut in the appropriation, which would disorganize and hamper their work.

Doctor Woods. Mr. Hart, I think you are right in regard to what you might call expenditures of the ordinary type that do not bring in revenue.

Mr. HART. Yes.

Doctor Woods. But practically all work in which we are engaged is work that has for its object increasing the returns to industry and, in may cases, the actual life of the industry itself depends upon the work that they have asked us to do-like the sugarcane and the sugar beet. Take the sugar-beet industry: There is $100,000,000 invested in factories and nearly $200,000,000 invested in the growing of beets. Mr. HART. I realize all that.

Doctor WooDS. Now that would have gone out of business if we had not produced this "United States No. 1" resistant beet. Four years ago, before this committee, the then chairman of the committee told us that he did not think it could be done, and he said "I will call you to account in five years, I will give you five years," and here we are distributing it in four years. Now you take it all along the line, and the work that our research men are doing is work that returns dividends and makes money to pay taxes with; if the farmers did not have it, they would have losses instead of income.

Mr. BUCHANAN. You may go one step further: The work you are doing is fundamental work for the primary industry of this Nation or any other nation-agriculture. If it fails, then all your industrial enterprises fail.

Doctor WOODS. They will fail.

Mr. HART. I think this research work will be the last to be hit; that is, I do not think anybody will want to curtail this line of work and what I mean is to put in every economy you can, with reference to field stations and making the stations cooperate, and so forth, and getting every economy you can. I think some of the bureaus in this Department of Agriculture will get hit good and plenty, but they are not of this nature, and there are bureaus in other departments of the Government; because I do not believe, when you get before this Congress, that they are going very carelessly to dig up some new method of taxation and just go ahead and levy it and say "Well, we will just pass new tax laws"; and we have a big deficit facing us. Mr. SANDLIN. Of course, you know and I know that all of these expenses and practically all of the expenses of the Government are caused by the people themselves, and until the people are taught they can not have all these things and a reduction of taxes, that will not be changed. That is one of the lessons that should be taught and when they go to their Representatives, their Representatives must tell them so that you can not have appropriations for certain things, and then reduce taxes.

Mr. BUCHANAN. They must realize, if they get the service, that they must pay for it.

Mr. SANDLIN. That is it.

Doctor Woods. If they get service that enables them to get dividends to pay taxes with, they are going to pay taxes; but, if they do not get a service that enables them to pay dividends, then they have a right to kick.

Mr. BUCHANAN. They are kicking whether they get the service or not.

Doctor WOODS. Well, they are not kicking so hard. For instance, a delegation from Virginia came up to us during one of the hardest economic situations, last year, headed by Governor Byrd, and said "Now, if you people can not come down there and show us how to make apple trees bear every year, instead of every two years, we are going out of the apple business." He had a delegation of people with him from Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. And we believe it can be done; but, in order to do it, it is going to cost some money in order to find out just how to do it. We have not been able to tackle that problem yet.

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes; and where that delegation came up and saw you and asked you to do it, and so forth, you can find a lot of the leaders down in that part of the country who do not think you are doing much good, whether you are or not.

Doctor TAYLOR. I think you will find that those who are the leaders in the industry appreciate the results of effective research.

Mr. BUCHANAN. The trouble about the thing throughout the country is those leaders, a great many of them, will not stand by firmly and uphold their convictions against an aroused public demand for economy. A lot of them would close up like a clam.

Field stations and major field experiments of tobacco investigations

Location and name

Description

Estimated expenditures fiscal

Remarks

year
1933

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48% acres available through $9,500 Cooperation: Georgia Coastal cooperation.

25 acres through cooperation
with Maryland Agricultural
Experiment Station.

1 acre through cooperation
with Massachusetts Agricul-
tural Experiment Station.

40 acres through cooperation
with North Carolina State
Department of Agriculture
and Agricultural Experi-
ment Station.

17 acres through cooperation
with North Carolina State
Department of Agriculture
and Agricultural Experi-
ment Station.

6 acres through cooperation
with Pennsylvania State
College Agricultural Ex-
periment Station.

15 acres through cooperation
with Pee Dee Experiment
Station.

Plain Experiment Station. Major activity: Flue cured tobacco investigations.

3,700 Cooperation: Maryland Agricultural Experiment Station. Major activity: Tobacco investigations.

4,000 Cooperation:

Massachusetts

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Field stations and major field experiments of tobacco investigations-Continued

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Tennessee: Greeneville-Tobacco Experiment Station, State Agricultural Experiment Station.

Virginia: Bowling Green-Caroline County Station, State Agricultural Experiment Sta

tion.

West Virginia: Lakin-Lakin substation, State Agricultural Experiment Station.

Wisconsin: Madison-Wisconsin Agricultural Experiment Station.

30 acres through cooperation $5, 700 Cooperation: Tennessee Agri-
with Tennessee Agricultural
Experiment Station.

10 acres through cooperation
with Virginia Experiment
Station.

22 acres through cooperation
with West Virginia Agricul-
tural Experiment Station.

8 acres through cooperation
with Wisconsin Agricultural
Experiment Station.

cultural Experiment Station. Major activity: Burley tobacco investigations.

2,045 Cooperation: Virginia Agricultural Experiment Station. Major activity: Sun cured tobacco investigations.

900 Cooperation: West Virginia Agricultural Experiment Station.

Major activity: Burley tobacco investigations.

3,885 Cooperation: Wisconsin Agricultural Experiment Station. Major activity: Tobacco disease investigations.

WESTERN IRRIGATION AGRICULTURE

The next item is:

For investigations in connection with Western irrigation agriculture, the utilization of lands reclaimed under the reclamation act, and other areas in the arid and semi-arid regions, $131,655: Provided, That the limitations in this act as to the cost of farm buildings shall not apply to this paragraph.

Doctor TAYLOR. The following explanation of this item is submitted for the record:

Appropriation, 1932:

1. Agricultural act..

2. Second deficiency act, 1931-32 (for relocating and equipping Hermiston, Oreg., field station-balance of $35,000)

Total appropriation, 1932_

Appropriation, 1933.

$153, 940

33, 935

187, 875

147, 950

131, 655

16, 295

Budget estimate, 1934.

Decrease...

The reduction of $16,295 is explained as follows:

(1) $2,730 decrease under agronomic investigations on irrigation projects to be effected by a general reduction in travel and other expenditures.

(2) $1,800 decrease under boron investigations to be effected by a general reduction in travel and other expenditures.

(3) $3,420 decrease under irrigation and ground water investigations is to be effected by a general reduction in travel and other expenditures.

(4) $8,345 reduction on account of continuation of legislative furlough. While the decrease will necessitate some curtailment of the program of work on the projects above indicated, it is believed that the more important phases of these activities can be continued.

WORK UNDER THIS APPROPRIATION

Under this appropriation the agricultural conditions in the arid and semiarid regions of the western United States are studied to determine the crops, rotations, and cropping methods best suited to successful irrigation farming in those regions. Field stations are maintained at the following points: Phoenix, Ariz.; Bard,

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