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Doctor KELLERMAN. No; you never get borax in that concentration.

Mr. BUCHANAN. What was it?

Doctor KELLERMAN. It will happen from either common salt, sodium sulphate, or sodium bicarbonate, if the water is soft.

Mr. BUCHANAN. Some years ago we had an irrigation project on which the irrigation water would harden the ground so that

you could not plow it.

Doctor KELLERMAN. That has been occurring in the southern portion of the San Joaquin Valley in California, the Gila and Salt River Valleys of Arizona, and the Newlands irrigation project of Nevada. These conditions may be improved by occasional heavy irrigations and drainage of the excess salts.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I should think if salt existed in sufficient quantity to harden the ground, it would kill the vegetation.

SALT HARDENING OF SOIL CURED BY RINSING SOIL

Doctor KELLERMAN. No; you can get the hardening result from these salt accumulations that will not hurt the plants. If the salt in the irrigation water is composed almost entirely of sodium salts, the ground will harden long before the total quantity of salt in the soil is sufficient to injure plant growth. If the irrigation water contains salts of lime and magnesium as well as sodium, hardening of the soil will not occur although eventually the accumulation of all the salts may be sufficient to injure or prevent plant growth. The general salt problem is of much larger extent than the boron problem. In the effort to save water, if each year they use just enough water to make a crop, the excess salt remains in the land and accumulates from year to year. Every few years in these slightly salty waters where they are used for irrigation, it is desirable to apply a very heavy irrigation for the purpose of rinsing the excess salt out, that irrigation water is largely wasted as it is used more for soil rinsing than for growing a crop, and if irrigation is handled that way we believe that one of the most serious difficulties in maintaining the productivity of our irrigated lands will be eliminated.

Doctor TAYLOR. That is the work that is done on reclamation projects. You see, on the reclamation projects, until the farmers and settlers take over the full operation of the district, the Reclamation Service maintains its supervision and distribution of water and their people act, in a measure, as advisors of the farmers with reference to many things. Our cooperation with the Reclamation Service does not cost the Department of Agriculture any money, Our work is the experimentation and determination of the crops that can be grown and how to grow them most effectively. Possibly you may have in mind there the item of demonstrations on reclamation projects, which, up to some years ago, was carried in the Bureau of Plant Industry, but this is now a feature of the extension service, and there is cooperation there in that. But that has no fiscal relation to the Bureau of Plant Industry

Mr. BUCHANAN. Do you know what part, if any, of this sum, is diverted for use in the distribution of water?

PURCHASE OF AUTOMOBILES

Doctor TAYLOR. Under the limitation on the purchase of passenger carrying vehicles, which, in 1933, was set at $21,650, we show a reduction of $8,450.

Mr. BUCHANAN. Well, will all of this be used for the purchase of new cars, or will some of it be used in the purchase of new cars through exchanges?

Doctor TAYLOR. Some of it will be used for exchange cars; where the car gets too old for economical operation, it is found advisable to exchange them for new ones.

Mr. BUCHANAN. But not any of this is used for exchanges?
Doctor TAYLOR. No, sir.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 1932.

FOREST SERVICE

STATEMENT OF MAJ. R. Y. STUART, CHIEF FORESTER

Mr. BUCHANAN. We will take up next the estimates for the Forest Service.

GENERAL STATEMENT

Major Stuart, have you some general statement you want to make?
Major STUART. Yes, sir; if I may.
Mr. BUCHANAN. Well, proceed.

Major STUART. The committee will notice in connection with the appropriation items as a whole, that the reductions made apply to practically all of our items. The reason for that is in order that we can continue a well-balanced program, our items being so closely interrelated.

In summary it amounts to this,-that every effort is being made within the limitations of the funds provided to afford reasonable protection to our forests from fire and to conduct the other work essential to the national forest enterprise and the other duties required of the Forest Service by congressional act. The work to be done therefore admittedly has its limitations, particularly as the budget carries reductions in those funds, such as for roads and trails and other capital investments, which ordinarily furnish employment which is auxiliary to our forest protection force.

There is one item of increase to which I should like to call your attention in this connection, to be discussed in more detail later, namely, that of forest planting. This increase would simply put us in a position where we could use the stock that has accumulated in our nurseries during the past year, which will otherwise have to be destroyed, such accumulation having been occasioned by the reduced appropriation for forest planting for the current year.

It will be helpful also to bear in mind in considering the appropriation for the Forest Service that there is no intent to approach National Forest work or other Forest Service activities form the standpoint of unemployment except as it may be involved in the employment of personnel needed to carry on the absolutely essential National Forest work and to meet our prescribed obligations.

WORK DURING PAST YEAR

As to our work throughout the past year, with the exception of large timber sales, our work shows no decrease, and in many cases increases. Even in the small sales, that is sales of $500 each and under, we show a greater number of sales during the past year than in 1930, so that the acute depression we are experiencing throughout the country is not reflecting itself in a decreased use of the national forests, except in that particular where it has to do with the operation of large saw mills. That, I should like to develop at greater length later.

The object in calling this general situation to your attention is that I think it is necessary in carrying on the work of the Forest Service that we have a balanced program, one that permits us to make progress so far as that can be done with the funds available for the various requirements which are interrelated, one with the other.

GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES

Mr. BUCHANAN. The next item is:

General Administrative Expenses: For necessary expenses for general administrative purposes, including the salary of the Chief Forester and other personal services in the District of Columbia, $327,819.

Major STUART. The following statement is presented: Appropriation, 1932.

$370, 640 Appropriation, 1933

352, 580 Budget estimate, 1934

327, 819 Decrease..

24, 761 $24,761 decrease is explained as follows:

(a) Apparent increase of $559 by transfer from “Salaries, office of the Secretary," which has been correspondingly reduced, as pro rata of supply handling charges for 1934.

(b) $25,320 reduction on account of continuation of legislative furlough.

WORK UNDER THIS APPROPRIATION

This appropriation provides salaries and expenses of employees in the Washington office engaged on general administrative and service-wide subtechnical activities pertaining to the national forests and other general service activities.

The number of employees in the Washington office paid from this and comparable appropriations has been reduced from 225 in 1920 to 197 in 1932. During this time the volume of work has increased, because of larger appropriations. The Forest Service has long recognized the fact that the number of employees and the amount expended in its central office should be held to an absolute minimum.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I notice in 1932 you had $370,640, and the appropriation for 1933 is $352,580, and for next year the estimate is $327,819, a decrease of $24,761.

Major STUART. In that item, Mr. Chairman, which is the item that meets the expenses of the Washington office of the Forest Service, the decrease is occasioned by the legislative furlough.

I think it is desirable to state that the Forest Service has over the years determinedly followed a decentralized method of administration.

I have here, in illustration of that point, a chart showing the appropriations that have been received by the Forest Service from 1919 to

1932, and a dotted line indicating the personnel in the Washington office which has administered those funds and the increased work entailed thereby

You will notice, for example, that in 1919, when we received an appropriation of $8,000,000 for all of our activities, we had two hundred and twenty odd employees, whereas at this time we have less than 200 handling an appropriation of something like $37,000,000.

Now, that has been a development over the years, as I say, in order to keep down overhead and any Washington office expense that is not necessary, and, similarily, I have here to show how over the years we have exercised every economy practicable in the field, a chart which shows the developments in that direction in the field.

This chart that I have before me indicates that in 1919 with expenditures of some $8,000,000 in these items, we had about 2,600 whereas in 1932 under an appropriation of approximately $37,000,000 we had employees numbering about 2,700 indicating that with the great expansion in our work and the funds made available to us, we have determinedly kept down the number of employees.

I develop that point for the simple reason that we claim we have no funds within the total appropriation of the Forest Service of a surplusage character; that we have continuously sought to conduct our work economically and with the minimum number of employees.

I might state also in this connection, as stated in these notes, that the number of employees in the Washington office paid from this and comparable appropriations has been reduced from 225 in 1920 to 197 in 1932.

PROTECTION AND ADMINISTRATION OF NATIONAL FORESTS

Mr. BUCHANAN. The next item is:

For the employment of forest supervisors, deputy forest supervisors, forest rangers, forest guards, and administrative clerical assistants on the national forests, and for additional salaries and field-station expenses, including the maintenance of nurseries, collecting seed, and planting, necessary for the use, maintenance, improvement, and protection of the national forests, and of addi. tional national forests created or to be treated under section 11 of the act of March 1, 1911 (U. S. C., title 16, sec. 521), and under the act of June 7, 1924 (U. S. C., title 16, secs. 471, 499, 505, 564-570), and lands under contract for purchase or for the acquisition of which condemnation proceedings have been instituted for the purposes of said acts, and for necessary miscellaneous expenses incident to the general administration of the Forest Service and of the national forests:

In nation forest region 1, Montana, Washington, Idaho, and South Dakota, $1,457,066: Provided, That the Secretary of Agriculture is authorized to use not to exceed $200 in caring for the graves of fire fighters buried at Wallace, Idaho; Newport, Washington; and Saint Maries, Idaho.

In national forest region 2, Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Oklahoma, $649,452: Provided, That not to exceed $1,000 of this appropriation may be expended for the maintenance of the herd of long-horned cattle on the Wichita National Forest;

In national forest region 3, Arizona and New Mexico, $618,495;

In national forest region 4, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado, $817,251;

In national forest region 5, California and Nevada, $1,151,613;
In national forest region 6, Washington, Oregon, and California, $1,136,029;

In national forest region 7, Arkansas, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, New Hampshire, Maine, Puerto Rico, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Vermont, $489,356;

In national forest region 8, Alaska, $112,280;
In national forest region 9, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, $137,338;

In all, for the use, maintenance, improvement, protection, and general administration of the national forests, $6,568,880: Provided, That the foregoing amounts appropriated for such purposes shall be available interchangeably in the discretion of the Secretary of Agriculture for the necessary expenditures for fire protection and other unforeseen exigencies: Provided further, That the amount so interch aged shall not exceed in the aggregate 10 per centum of all the amounts so appropriated.

Major STUART. The following explanation of this item is submitted: Appropriation, 1932

$7, 289, 240 Appropriation, 1932

7, 131, 244 Budget estimate, 1934..

6, 568, 880 Decrease.

562, 364 The reduction is explained as follows:

(a) A reduction of $131,244 has been uniformly distributed to all projects since it will affect all of them approximately proportionately. The decrease to be effected will be made by a general reduction in all projects under this appropriation for expenditures for temporary labor, supplies and equipment, travel expenses, transportation of things, furnishing of heat, light and power, and repairs to equipment.

(6) $431,120 reduction on account of continuation of legislative furlough.

CHANGE IN LANGUAGE

It is recommended that the amount of the authorization for caring for fire fighters graves in national forest region 1 be changed from $500 to $200, since the amount needed for the fiscal year 1934 is only for the care of graves. It is also recommended that the following language be omitted since the work authorized will have been performed in the fiscal year 1933:

and in removing the remains of fire fighters to the cemeteries at Newport, Washington; and/or Saint Maries, Idaho.'

WORK UNDER THIS APPROPRIATION

This appropriation is used for the general operating expenses of the national forests and national forest regional offices, including the following items:

(1) Salaries and travel expenses for the men in charge of the various units or organization such as national forest regions, national forests, and ranger districts.There are now nine National Forest Regions, 140 National Forests and 700 Ranger districts. These men - direct the administrative, protective and improvement activities carried on in the units for which they individually are responsible and during the course of a year will devote varying portions of their time to practically all of the projects listed. For some of the projects worked on and supervised there are special appropriations, but the salaries and, except under certain special conditions, the travel expenses of the men in charge of administrative units are paid entirely from this appropriation. It would be impossible to exert financial control over the many general and special appropriations if an attempt were made to pay the salaries and expenses of men in charge of physical units from special appropriations in proportion to the varying amounts of time spent on the different projects. This method of financial management accounts for a large part of the charges from this appropriation to projects for which there are special appropriations.

(2) Salaries and expenses of the assistants to these supervisory officers including the salaries of clerical employees.-Exceptions are that when such an assistant or clerk is wholly employed on an activity such as tree planting or road construction, for which a special appropriation is available, his salary and any necessary travel expenses are paid from the special appropriation; also when the time of an assistant is divided between work for which there is no special appropriation and work for which there is a special appropriation in a way which calls for adjustment as a matter of law and fairness between appropriations, the cost of his time and travel expense, if any, is so divided. (3) Salaries of fire guards, scalers and other short-term employees engaged on

which there is no special appropriation.Three thousand three hun

work for

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