in the private holdings. Moreover, such information as this study is designed to secure is absolutely fundamental to the coordination of forestry, agriculture, and other major land uses. It is essential in the formulation of regional and national land use planning programs-developments which have received fresh impetus from the economic depression, and under the leadership of the National Land Use Planning Committee and other agencies. The South has nearly 40 per cent of the forest land of the United States and heavy dependence is placed on the South as a source of the Nation's supply of forest products. Data have been gathered, compiled, and analyzed as to forest conditions, forest-land-management. practices, methods of utilizing forest products, and market conditions in 11 sample counties in 8 States. Preliminary reports, mostly by individual counties, are in various stages of completion. Large possibilities in private forestry are indicated, but as a rule the productivity of private lands has deteriorated under existing practices. So-called case studies of large operations have commenced. The work has received important cooperation from the State forester of Florida who published one of the reports, State foresters of Mississippi and Georgia, extension foresters, and many county officials. Mr. BUCHANAN. Under the heading Forest Economics, the appropriation for 1932 appears to have been $75,000, and for 1933, $70,240, the Budget estimate for 1934 being $65,608, a decrease of $4,632. Major STUART. This reduction of $4,632 is to cover the legislative furlough for the fiscal year 1934. This project, forest economics, has to do for one thing with the question of the profitableness of forestry. If we are to have well managed forests in this country, and we must have them as we see it in order to use productively a vast acreage of land in the main adapted to no other major economic use, we must ascertain under what conditions it will be profitable for private owners to retain their forest lands and practice forestry upon them. This is an acute situation in tax delinquencies and forest land abandonment which leads to many puzzling problems. We are concerning ourselves, under this limited fund set up for forest economics, with three phases of that big question. One is to discover the things which are retarding the development of private forestry. That is, what are the reasons, sound or otherwise, that are preventing owners of forest land, whether that land contains standing timber or is simply cut-over land, from practicing forestry upon it; and what are the appropriate and desirable measures for encouraging the retention of forest lands by private owners for continued forest production. One phase of the big problem is the basic causes of reversion of these lands to public ownership. Mr. BUCHANAN. That is, to State ownership? Major STUART. The situation varies because of the laws in different States. In some instances it reverts to the State and in some to the county. Mr. BUCHANAN. Well, State or county, it is either one. Major STUART. Yes, sir; but when you face a situation such as is. faced in the Lakes States, for example, of tax revision, it becomes a pretty serious thing. I have a report recently submitted from the Lake State Experiment Station which covers that situation in these items: Most recent estimates indicate that 35 per cent of the forested areas in the Lakes States are involved in tax delinquencies. Mr. HART. How much? Major STUART. Thirty-five per cent. Mr. BUCHANAN. That is State lands, of course. Major STUART. Lands within the State. Mr. BUCHANAN. Privately owned within the State? Mr. BUCHANAN. That private owners will not pay the taxes on and the State sells it out under public sale for taxes? Major STUART. As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, at the moment there is no sale for such lands. Mr. BUCHANAN. How do they get title, then? Major STUART. The title stays with the county or the State. Mr. HART. Under the Michigan law the auditor generally bids it in. Major STUART. You mean for the county? Mr. HART. Yes. All our State lands are sold by the auditor generally and if he obtains the taxes he remits the portion back to the county or the township, or village, or whatever it may be, but if he is not able to secure it, the State takes the title to it. Major STUART. In Michigan, as a whole, there were 9,114,000 acres delinquent in 1929, of which 88 per cent was located in the forest and mineral counties. Mr. HART. Well, if Michigan continues at the present rate for 25 years the State will own every foot of land in Michigan. We have reached Soviet Government and do you know what is bringing that about? Heavy taxation, the very thing we are discussing around this table. I have a brick block in the county of Midland, Mich., that I have abandoned for taxes. I can not pay the taxes on it. Í straightened them up here a few years ago and sold it on a contract and I found that the fellow had not even paid his taxes let alone paying on the contract. I paid four hundred and some dollars taxes, and the place is a 2-story well-built brick place right in the heart of the town and it is just abandoned. We are not only abandoning land, but abandoning villages up there. Major STUART. In Wisconsin, six and one-half million acres are delinquent this year, of which 5,000,000 acres are in the northern counties. In the forest region of Minnesota, represented by the 16 northeastern counties, 6,830,840 acres, or 44 per cent of the total taxable area, was delinquent as of January, 1931. Mr. BUCHANAN. On how much of that land has title passed to the county or State? Major STUART. All of it. Mr. BUCHANAN. Being delinquent does not mean that. Major STUART. No; there must be a lapse of time during which the owner can recover the land, but let me cite the following situation as indicating that the lapse of time will not cure the situation. Here are the acreages advertised for sale on account of tax delinquency in the State of Michigan: In 1910, that is 22 years ago, there were 2,236,000 acres in the State advertised for sale on account of tax delinquencies. That figure in 1921 was 2,958,000 acres. In 1925 it was 5,688,000 acres. In 1927 6,825,000 acres. Now, ordinarily a lapse of two to five years is allowed for a man to recover title, but this deliquency has been going on at a progressive rate since 1910. Mr. HART. You have three years in Michigan. I can explain the situation in Michigan. In Michigan it is due to a lot of cut-over lands. We have tremendous quantities of those north, we will say, of Bay City. They began about at the point of what we call the Saginaw Bay and drew a line straight west across the State and we have tremendous territory there. You can drive from Rose City to Gaylor (?) about 70 miles right across what we call plains. It will hardly grow jack pine and, for awhile, there was some small stuff on it which is used for pulpwood and one thing or another, and they paid the taxes probably, and the taxes were lower, but as the taxes rose and a few settlers got in there and organized the county and they began to get local taxes on them, they just abandoned them. Major STUART. The acuteness of that situation Mr. Hart, lies in the fact that the counties heretofore have been depending upon those lands for value to keep up their schools and roads. In the absence of any return from them, or any prospect of a return, they are in a very serious situation. Mr. HART. I can drive across counties there where you will find no settlers to amount to anything. Mr. BUCHANAN. In other words, the land Mr. Hart is speaking about, as well as some land in the Lake States, was valuable in the eyes of those who owned it only for the timber on it. They cut that timber off, and after that timber was cut off they did not believe that the land minus the timber was worth the taxes and therefore they did not pay the taxes. Now then, how is this department going to make that land worth more than it really is worth? Major STUART. Well, it is the determination of the facts underlying what you have stated, Mr. Chairman, that this appropriation is made for. It is through this item, together with items appropriated by State and other agencies for the same purposes, that we get this basic information we are discussing, and there follows from that the question what is the county going to do about it, what is the State going to do about it, and what is the Federal Government going to do about it? Mr. BUCHANAN. What you want to get is sufficient data to inform those people whether the land for the reproduction of forestry will justify the keeping of it and the payment of the taxes on it for the period of years in which the forest will grow. Major STUART. We have a very practical question which is asked of the Forest Service currently. There are in the Lake States 1,752,146 acres of national forest. Many people, including State officials in those three States, believe, that in order to meet the serious forest-land situation in the Lake States, the Federal Government should own much more land than it now does; that the load due to abandonment and tax delinquency is too much for the counties and States to carry. Mr. BUCHANAN. The county and State do not have to pay taxes in Michigan, do they? Major STUART. In Wisconsin the State has a law which permits the payment by the State to the county of a certain sum per acre per year to help meet the expense of protecting the land held by the county. Mr. BUCHANAN. It permits it, but does it compel it? Major STUART. Yes, if the land is held by the county, but that, Mr. Chairman, is to meet the immediate needs for forest protection. That is to make sure that these lands that are falling into the hands of the counties are protected from fire. Mr. BUCHANAN. That is just fire protection? Major STUART. Yes, sir. Mr. BUCHANAN. The State of Michigan does not have to pay taxes, does it? Mr. HART. No, the State of Michigan only acts as a collecting agency for the other subdivisions. If it collects them, it returns them. Mr. BUCHANAN. State land is not subject to tax, is it? Mr. HART. No, it is not subject to tax and so far as our problem goes we have some people up there-I get letters right along from people interested in Forest Service and from George Hogarth, conservation commissioner, and some fellows wanting a large Federal appropriation for Forest Service. There is no question about that, but I do not believe that is a function of the Federal Government. I think Michigan ought to take care of her own problems and I do not hesitate to tell them so either. Major STUART. We are cooperating very closely, Mr. Hart, with Michigan and other States in forest protection. Mr. HART. I know you are. I think in the committee here last year we cut some forest appropriations, if I remember correctly, and I think I had a loud protest about it and when I wrote them and told them it was necessary to economize in the Federal Government, and they would have to look after their own problems, and yet they sent me back here. Mr. BUCHANAN. Are all of these items under the McNary-McSweeney bill? Major STUART. Yes, sir. Mr. BUCHANAN. That thing costs us a lot of money, does it not? Major STUART. I think it is a rather modest sum, Mr. Chairman. I have previously indicated to you the comparison between the agricultural research problems and expenditures and the forest research problems and expenditures. FOREST FIRE COOPERATION Mr. BUCHANAN. The next item is: For cooperation with the various States or other appropriate agencies in forestfire prevention and suppression and the protection of timbered and cut-over lands in accordance with the provisions of sections 1, 2, and 3 of the act entitled "An act to provide for the protection of forest lands, for the reforestation of denuded areas, for the extension of national forests, and for other purposes, in order to promote continuous production of timber on lands chiefly valuable therefor," approved June 7, 1924 (U. S. C., title 16, secs. 564-570), as amended, including also the study of the effect of tax laws and the investigations of timber insurance as provided in section 3 of said act, $1,601,233, of which $23,720 shall be available for departmental personal services in the District of Columbia and not to exceed $1,500 for the purchase of supplies and equipment required for the purposes of said act in the District of Columbia. Major STUART. The following explanation of this item is presented for the record: WORK UNDER THIS APPROPRIATION Investigations of forest taxation and forest insurance. The purpose of investigations in forest taxation is to establish the fundamental principles upon which forest taxation should be based and to cooperate with States in working out legislation which will conform to these principles, and at the same time be adapted to local requirements. The work involves the collection and analysis of data on such subjects as: The economic and legal background of the entire system of taxation in individual States; the financial structure and existing tax system of States, counties, and minor political subdivisions; expenditures for roads, schools, and other governmental functions; the practical operation of the taxation system in general, including its effect on different classes of property, assessment practices, etc.; existing State forest tax legislation; the actual effect of existing laws on the use of land for growing timber; methods and results of forest tax legislation in European countries where forestry is well established. The work of the taxation staff (or inquiry) has already been tangibly presented in 17 factual progress reports on various aspects of the forest taxation problem. The inquiry is now working under the utmost pressure to complete by the end of the calendar year 1932 a comprehensive report bringing together the results of the fundamental researches of the inquiry to date and presenting the conclusions as to principles and as to the most effective application to different sets of conditions. It is planned to continue the work of the inquiry by more localized application studies looking toward the assistance of States in desirable modifications in existing forest taxation legislation. The economic depression has served to emphasize forest taxation as one of the complex features of the whole involved taxation situation. States and other agencies are taking up forest taxation in earnest. The importance of forest taxation as a factor in keeping forest land productive, and of remedial action are featured in the recent report of the President's Timber Conservation Board. There is urgent demand for the findings and the assistance of the inquiry. The work of the inquiry to date and planned will be invaluable in formulating appropriate legislative changes and other provisions to meet the varying local forest taxation situations. The purpose of forest insurance investigation is to determine under what conditions privately financed fire insurance on growing forests and mature timber is feasible, and to work out a satisfactory basis and form for such insurance. As an offset to high fire hazard on cutover areas restocking to forest growth, reasonablypriced fire insurance would do much to encourage private forestry. The work consists of the collection, where not already available, and analyses of such data as: Statistics of forest fires, including information as to cause, location, seasons, weather conditions, condition of the forest cover, etc.; appraisal of the damage caused by fire in the different types of forest, under different conditions; ratios of loss to values at stake, as a basis for insurance rating schedules. The project, conducted by the Pacific Northwest Forest Experiment Station for that region is nearly completed in the Douglas fir section of Washington and Oregon, and is well under way in the pine forests east of the mountains of those States. Close and essential cooperation has been maintained with various local agencies, especially the State foresters, fire wardens and fire protection associations-the agencies which directly handle fire protection on the private forest lands of those States. Contacts are maintained with and consulting cooperation obtained from insurance authorities. A fire-insurance business can not soundly be based on a single region. It will be necessary to extend the project to other important forest regions such as the Northeast and the Lake States. Cooperation with States in forest fire prevention and suppression. In the fiscal year 1933 the Federal Government is assisting 37 States and one territory to prevent and suppress forest fires within their boundaries. The administration of this activity is handled in each State by the State Forestry Department; the Federal Government provides a proportion of necessary funds and brings to the States for their consideration and aid the composite experience and knowledge gained through nation-wide contact with the forest fire problem. The experience of the individual States and of the Federal Government on the national forests is made available to all of the States. This is accomplished by a field personnel of |